Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

@engineer,

Quote:

But DSK could very well be guilty. I can see those of you who maintain he is innocent, but I don't understand how you say you will not be swayed by evidence presented in court. If the only thing that will convince you of his guilt is a confession, that's not going to happen, not because he is a martyr but because he would never confess.

I have never said DSK is not guilty. Nor would I. Of course I would be swayed by evidence presented in court if is strong enough. And I didn't say that only a confession would persuade me to think DSK guilty.

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. How does that make me non-Christian?

Because Christians turn the other cheek. Not because it is the moral thing to do but because it is the best thing to do from a practical point of view. If someone "did this" (you mean alleged to have done it I assume--I hope) to your wife or daughter the best thing to do is to put it behind you. Revenge is useless however understandable. Would you really put them through what this cleaning woman is about to go through? You just don't hear of the many victims of crime who can put it behind them.

Quote:

All the hysterical speculation is not directed at men here, it is coming from them.

And I have explained that. They think their own guilt for their abuse of women can be expiated by outraged, conspicuous indignation. Like Mr Waugh said--"the more he talked of his honesty the faster we counted the spoons". Or for money. Either way the woman is being further abused by a load of phoney sanctimonious shitbags imo.

A lady I know said that she should have been bunged a grand and told to go shopping. But even that implies DSK's guilt.

quote]I agree tabloids are in the business of speculation and exploitation [/quote]

What do you think is being exploited? It's an easy thing to say without an explanation.

I stayed up half the night to see all those Chilean miners rescued and being greeted by their squeezes. All of the squeezes looked the part of women attached to blokes earning four times the average wage because the mine was high risk. Exploitation engineer--you do not know its name.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

Seems pointless to me too...what does that have to do with IF a person is guilty they shouldnt expect to get away with it just because they are rich and powerful .

That's easy fixed Io. Cap lawyer's fees at a level an average person can afford. Or, if you like, at what an average Australian aboriginal can afford. Outside of that you look enviously at the rich and carelessly alakiefik (an Arab word for not giving a ****) at the poor. All lower-middle-class people are like that in y experience. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be either. Just stating the fact.

"Get your credentials as a woman lover the easy way here" this thread should be called.

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@spendius,

The vast percent of our lawmakers are lawyers so good luck in getting legal fee cap at least in the US.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

. Do you have a problem with locking up multiple sex offenders and multiple murderers ?

Don't be so bloody silly Io. What exactly is a "multiple sex offender"? Read Germaine Greer and some others who are even more extreme than she was in her younger days after growing up in your country. She arrived here saying "all men are rapists". Where did she get an idea like that from?

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@spendius,

Quote:

And if the cleaning woman just wants "justice" (revenge), which I don't believe, then she is no Christian.

You haven't been paying attention, Spendi. While you have been busy pontificating about all manner of things, except the specifics of the DSK case, you overlooked the fact that the hotel maid is a Muslim--a devout Muslim. She is, in fact, "no Christian".

Quote:

The anti-Christian intolerance and the specious grandstanding are there for all to see.

So now you see the arrest and treatment of DSK as reflecting "anti-Christian intolerance"? What has Christianity got to do with any of this?
You seem to be advocating the promotion of your version of Christian values, with no recognition of the fact that other people, including other Christians, may not share your particular religious notions, particularly as they pertain to criminal behaviors. We have a clear separation of church and state in the U.S.--the state is not bound to uphold Christian values, nor is anyone else.

"Justice" means more than retribution--among other things, it also means holding people responsible, and accountable, when their actions have harmed others or violated their rights.

The alleged victim may rightly feel she was harmed by this man, and she may feel that others might be potentially and similarly harmed by him, and for those reasons she might want to see him held responsible for his acts and even removed from the community and put in prison.

BillRM has previously said that this woman's reputation doesn't matter because she's a nobody, with no reputation that really matters. He forgets that most people consider their good name, and how others regard their character, as very important to them--we all have a personal reputation, and most of us do not want to see it defamed. This woman doesn't want to see her character unjustly assailed all over the media and internet. And, as a devout Muslim, things said about her sexual conduct may be very important to her. She asserts she was forcibly sexually assaulted by this man. It would be important for her to want to make the fact of her assault very clear in a court of law to dispel any assumptions that "she asked for it" or "she wanted it" or "she did it for money". Even within her own Muslim community these things would be important to her, but, thanks to international media coverage, she is now on a world stage which makes such issues all the more important.

Justice for this woman may also mean going into court and telling the truth about what this man did to her--to clear any doubts about her own good name and reputation. Justice means getting to tell her side of the story. Justice means holding this man accountable, even if he is a wealthy, prominent member of the political elite, and she is only a working person. Justice may mean that laws pertaining to violent, forcible sexual assaults cannot be violated with impunity.

The woman may have many valid and understandable motivations to want to see "justice" done in this matter that you aren't considering at all. And those same motivations might inhibit her from accepting any sort of monetary settlement, as part of a civil law suit, before the criminal case concludes.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Sorry but he is under this attack because of this position in life and the state would not be wheeling out millions in resources and the victim would no have three lawyers looking to become wealth off him if he was a common person.

Guilty or not guilty he is not being treated like a middle class person charge with forcing a blow job off a maid at holiday inn.

No, he is not "under attack" because of his position in life. He is charged with criminal offenses because the state believes he is the attacker--that he committed violent, forcible sexual assaults. He is being talked about because it is not very often that people in his position are criminally charged with such acts. We expect a higher standard of conduct from those who hold the public trust, particularly in the U.S.. So, his charges also strike people as rather shocking.

The state is wheeling out their best resources because of the millions in resources DSK is amassing to try to destroy the state's case against him--he's got a high-priced defense team of lawyers, an international investigatory agency, a PR firm, and lots of well connected and influential friends. His wealth (or his wife's wealth), forces the state into spending more.

And stop with the alleged monetary motive of the alleged victim's three lawyers, since you have not a shred of evidence to support your contention that their primary purpose is to mount a civil lawsuit for her. You seem ignorant of the fact that lawyers work within definite areas of specialization, and at least two of these three attorneys assisting the maid would not even be appropriate choices for a civil suit on a criminal matter. There are many reasons they might be offering her some legal assistance--they aren't devoting themselves exclusively to her situation, they are merely available to offer legal advice and assistance as needed. Shapiro has been acting as her spokesperson in the media, and it is quite understandable why she would need someone to do that for her. One of the other two attorneys is a very well known civil rights lawyer, he focuses on constitutional issues. He might have made himself available to her to help protect her rights to privacy--particularly since these may well be trampled on by the media and the defense.

If, and when, this woman decides to mount a civil suit against DSK, I suspect she will have an entirely different team of attorneys for that purpose.

Quote:

Guilty or not guilty you get your lawyer to do a plea deal and for a force blow job with no physical harm done to the victim and no criminal record before that charge in 62 years or life what to bet that the results would be little or if any prison time?

His age is not a relevant factor. A forcible sexual assault almost never results in a plea deal with no prison time--it is a first degree violent felony, and it's not going to be treated on a par with a disorderly conduct charge, and be given a slap on the wrist, because a D.A. generally has no compelling reason to reduce the charges to that extent. Also, in order to commit a crime of forcible sexual assault, involving oral/genital contact, the defendant generally breaks other laws in the process of committing that act, so there are other charges against him as well.

It is not inconceivable that someone like Benjamin Brafman could work out a sweetheart plea deal for DSK, but most people are not represented by someone like Brafman, and that kind of plea deal would be the clear exception and not the norm.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Translation by Google

and not a very good translation at that

You'd best leave the Google translations alone, h10, they're making a hash of the original articles.

If you can't read the articles in the original French, leave them alone.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

One hitch in the payday for Ophelia plan is that DSK has no money now.

What "payday for Ophelia plan" is that? Has she filed a civil suit?

hawkeye10 wrote:

I strongly suspect that he might be judgement proof now if the criminal case does not produce a guilty verdict. With a criminal sentencing the judge may be able to demand vitctim restitution payments, but even that is iffy.

The lack of legal knowledge on display here is breathtaking. There are some science-related threads on A2K that I read with interest, but I don't know a lot about science, so I am reluctant to jump in and give my opinion because I know that whatever I said would, with justification, be perceived by those much more intelligent than me as incredibly wrong-headed and idiotic. That you and BillRM, on the other hand, have the courage to opine on subjects ab0ut which you know nothing and expose your ignorance on a daily basis remains a source of constant amazement to me. Kudos to the both of you!

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@BillRM,

Quote:

The vast percent of our lawmakers are lawyers so good luck in getting legal fee cap at least in the US.

To be clear Bill, just in case, I was only kidding. Sometimes A2Kers have taken my satirical exaggerations literally.

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@firefly,

Quote:

BillRM has previously said that this woman's reputation doesn't matter because she's a nobody, with no reputation that really matters. He forgets that most people consider their good name, and how others regard their character, as very important to them--we all have a personal reputation, and most of us do not want to see it defamed

Unlike his name her name in the US is getting fine protection and anyone who wish to know it need to go out looking.

So she can show up almost anywhere in the US under her name and no one would be the wiser for the most part.

We grant women the power to destroy any man name without risking hers at the same time.

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@joefromchicago,

And I thought I was a sarcastic bastard. I bow to the master.

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@joefromchicago,

Quote:

The lack of legal knowledge on display here is breathtaking. There are some science-related threads on A2K that I read with interest, but I don't know a lot about science, so I am reluctant to jump in and give my opinion because I know that whatever I said would, with justification, be perceived by those much more intelligent than me as incredibly wrong-headed and idiotic. That you and BillRM, on the other hand, have the courage to opine on subjects ab0ut which you know nothing and expose your ignorance on a daily basis remains a source of constant amazement to me. Kudos to the both of you!

Would you care to enlighten as to whether NY law allows a criminal judge to impose restitution payments into the sentence, and if he can further prevent flight until the the sentence is complied with?

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

If you can't read the articles in the original French, leave them alone.

You are feeling bossy today I see....

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@hawkeye10,

Trying to be helpful my dear.

If you want to c0ntinue posting the garbled Google translations, go for it. Just realize that it is garble/garbage.

Perhaps it's some kind of internal consistency thing happening for you.

<shrug>

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@firefly,

Quote:

you overlooked the fact that the hotel maid is a Muslim--a devout Muslim.

It didn't know that ff. So overlook is not the right word. I've overlooked nothing that I know about. It does add another layer of complication though. Did she wear the approved kit when on duty? Does she at other times? What evidence do you have that she is a devout Muslim?

Do females work in Saudi $3000 a night hotels?

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So now you see the arrest and treatment of DSK as reflecting "anti-Christian intolerance"?

I do indeed. In fact I am on the record here as suggesting there is a pagan and barbaric search for a ritual sacrifice involved albeit at a lesser intensity. If you take a glimpse at ritual human sacrifice anthropology you will see distinct parallels in terms of motivations and procedures.

A sentence in Nigel Davies' learned tome Human Sacrifice reads--

Quote:

Sometimes he was further humiliated by being brought bound to a ceremony.

There are shades of Oswald Spengler's and Geoffrey Gorer's theory that landscape reasserts itself on the values of immigrant communities. It's a bit far fetched I know but the theory has been extended to the shapes of heads.

The vicarious thrill I presume we were intended to enjoy at the sight of the rear-end of the van taking DSK into Rikers didn't work for me.

BTW--was the shooter of Ms Giffords and others perp-walked?

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What has Christianity got to do with any of this?

Not very much but it might explain why the French were aghast.

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You seem to be advocating the promotion of your version of Christian values, with no recognition of the fact that other people, including other Christians, may not share your particular religious notions, particularly as they pertain to criminal behaviors.

What criminal behaviours in this case? My version of Christian values is the official one. I can do nothing about those claiming to be Christians. Or those claiming to be Muslims. Christian values embrace tolerance and forgiveness. They may well be honoured in the breech but that is a function of human nature and not of Christian values.

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We have a clear separation of church and state in the U.S.--the state is not bound to uphold Christian values, nor is anyone else.

I don't believe that for a moment. Writing a thing down does not make it a fact.

Quote:

BillRM has previously said that this woman's reputation doesn't matter because she's a nobody, with no reputation that really matters. He forgets that most people consider their good name, and how others regard their character, as very important to them--we all have a personal reputation, and most of us do not want to see it defamed.

I doubt Bill said that and if he did I don't agree with him. She likely knew she would be defamed to shreds by making the allegations. And certainly the investigators did.

Quote:

This woman doesn't want to see her character unjustly assailed all over the media and internet.

Obviously. But isn't your use of "unjustly" somewhat of a bald presumption. How do you know it is unjust that her character is questioned. Is the defence deemed unjust before even the case starts because it will no doubt do exactly that and it has a duty to.

Quote:

The woman may have many valid and understandable motivations to want to see "justice" done in this matter that you aren't considering at all.

What makes you say that? She has not been pilloried by the tabloids as DSK has. She hasn't even got a name. There is nothing to say about her that we know about except by hearsay. We saw DSK. We heard evidence in both bail hearings. I'm not having it that he was led in unshaven and without a tie because he was a suicide risk.

I think you are becoming confused ff. You're coming over as a hanging judge. It is evident in all your posts. She is Snow White and DSK is Gilles de Retz. That's your position. You would not last five minutes on jury selection if this thread was offered in evidence. Your readiness to believe the woman, eagerness even, and condemn the man is blatant in everything you say. So knock off using "justice" as a weapon.

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@hawkeye10,

Getting French men(and hawkeye) to change will still, she said, be pushing up “le rocher de Sisyphe.”

But seriously. I gotta give you credit for posting some really well-written articles that generally blow your kayak out of the water.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

And stop with the alleged monetary motive of the alleged victim's three lawyers, since you have not a shred of evidence to support your contention that their primary purpose is to mount a civil lawsuit for her.

Why do lawyers have a time-clock on their desk? What was their reason for studying those fusty old law books into the wee hours? I bet these three lawyers don't go jumping all over a sexual assault case in Harlem. Or Cottage Grove Oregon. Be as naive as you like ff but don't expect us to be.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Joe give no link just claim we are wrong and know nothing on the subject at hand.

Given it would take a international finance lawyer to speak as a 100 percent expert on how likely a NY court civil judgment would go over in the EU in this case I do not think either one of us is doing badly at all.

I do know that pensions and IRA saving accounts are given protection from civil judgments under most US states laws.

Let see if Joe will clarify and back up his comments.

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@spendius,

Quote:

What evidence do you have that she is a devout Muslim?

I have not seen any, but you just know that this is going to come up in court as the DA tries to spin the claim into the arguement that she could not have possibly wanted the sex.

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Do females work in Saudi $3000 a night hotels

Do they wear the uniform which was required before this event which shows the leg? How short this skirt is I would like to know.

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@spendius,

Quote:

What evidence do you have that she is a devout Muslim?

Do females work in Saudi $3000 a night hotels?

A man who may be her brother or may be her boyfriend told some reporters that she is a devout Muslim however none of the area Mosques know of her it would seem.

1 Reply

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

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