9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Why should those who add the most to the greater good not be allowed a little leeway?

No.
Absolutely not.
Everyone should be treated the same under the law. (Though sadly this often doesn't happen, depending on some people's status in society.)
In any case, Dominique Strauss-Kahn has a huge financial advantage ... he can hire the very best defence lawyers available. An option that is not available to most people.

Besides, what actually constitutes acts of "the greater good" is debatable . Even if I agreed with you in principle (which I don't) we'd most likely disagree on which people have achieved the most good for the many by their actions.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If this is not put to bed with in the next 72 hours the world will be deprived of one of our best economists as we try to fix the deeply ill global economy

No one is indispensable, not even a leading economist. The I.M.F. will continue functioning, with him or without him.

There is no way that this can be resolved in the next 72 hours. And his political future, as a possible candidate for President of France, appears finished. Not just because of the situation in NYC, but because of what I mentioned in my previous post--other women in France are coming forward to accuse him of assaulting them, and this has been all over French television.
Quote:

Marine Le Pen, who is the political sensation of the year, having surged ahead of Sarkozy in some polls, appeals to a disillusioned French electorate by portraying the leaders of the traditional right wing (Sarkozy) and the left (the Socialists) as virtually indistinguishable: out of touch, decadent, corrupt, cosmopolitan elitists. “I’m a bit astonished by the hypocrisy of the reactions,” she said of the protestations of astonishment and sorrow from the mainstream political class. And she said, “I was not particularly surprised by this affair.” After all, she said bluntly, D.S.K.’s “pathological” treatment of women has been the buzz of Paris for months. She spoke of his “fragility,” and his “addiction,” and said, “today the machete fell.”...
“Yet for years everything was hidden by everyone because that’s a little bit the system in France.” In the coming days, she said, she expected there’d be more stories, and already by day’s end young women were coming forward to say they regretted keeping quiet for so long.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/05/dsks-arrest-the-view-from-paris.html


Quote:
There is no time to allow the criminal justice system to work...

Why not? What urgency demands that the normal progression of the criminal justice system be abandoned for this man? The wheels of justice grind slow...
The NYPD is gathering evidence, I'm sure journalists are also...and part of the evidence presented in the media in France does show a disturbing pattern of similar behavior toward other women in France.
Particularly because of his prominence, this man deserves the time to let his very high profile lawyers work to clear his name, since they have said he is not guilty of any of his charges.
And let's not forget, there is a woman who alleges that she was physically assaulted, sexually assaulted, and held by him in his hotel suite until she managed to escape. In fairness to this woman, the criminal justice system must be allowed to work.

You do remember there is a woman who claims she was a victim of an attack by this man, don't you? Where is your concern for her--or her desire for justice?

Quote:

La Tribune in Paris is reporting that he had a long standing reservation on the flight that he was pulled off of..

What I read sounded more like he had a standing reservation, for a first class seat, on any Air France flight he wanted to hop on...so, he might have just boarded the first flight he could get out of N.Y. It does sound like he left that hotel in a hurry--he split before detectives showed up to talk to him, and he left items, including his cell phone, in his hotel suite.

What will probably happen next is that his lawyers will try to assert that he does have immunity under some aspect of international law--and those legal arguments will take time. Their likely immediate goal will be to try to get him out of the country and evade any possible trial in New York. But that's not going to happen fast, if it happens at all.

And the NYPD is not going to be in a hurry to tie this case up fast--because of the international publicity, they are going to take their time and make sure they get this one right, whether they wind up dismissing the charges or whether it goes to trial--they can't leave unanswered questions with either outcome--so this gentleman should prepare for a lengthy stay in the U.S. until this is resolved one way or the other.

Quote:
You will also recall my long standing position that sex crimes often should not be crimes at all,

So now you don't believe sexual assaults are real crimes, even when they involve force, and even when the forcible assault is done by a stranger?
He's also being charged with unlawful imprisonment, because she alleges he tried to prevent her from leaving the room.

These might not be your idea of crimes, but they are very serious criminal charges.





hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:43 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
. Not just because of the situation in NYC, but because of what I mentioned in my previous post--other women in France are coming forward to accuse him of assaulting them, and this has been all over French television.


RIIGGGHT
Quote:
DSK is known as an inveterate womaniser—a reputation which generally helps a French politician win public sympathy, bringing them closer to the average voter, who would like to be seen in the same light. It’s a trait that also brings him in line with previous French presidents. According to claims in a recent book by an anonymous insider, though, DSK’s womanising is an obsession: when he enters a café or office and spots his prey, he bombards them with texts, usually starting with “I want you.”
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/tag/opinion-polls/

I suppose you have an accuse handy for Berlusconi ....The Eurpeans dont share the American puritanical trait that has us labeling a broad section of the erotic games as sexual assault, as violence. We shall see hos DSK comes out of this politically, but if this is not over with-in days the IMF will be forced to remove him. If he is with-in weeks proven by the journalists to be innocent then this will help him with the French voters.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The allegation with the most meat comes from tabloid website Le Post, which notes that the first person to tweet the arrest was an activist in the French right-wing UMP party, Jonathan Pinet. He tweeted it before the time of the arrest, Le Post says.
The first person to retweet Pinet, according to Le Post still, was Arnaud Dassier, a spin doctor who had been implicated in previous embarrassing revelations on DSK's luxurious lifestyle. The first website to mention the news was 24heuresactu, a right-wing blog, way before the New York Post, which was the first US outlet to break the news.
Pinet says he got the news from a friend of his who works at the hotel and told him about the commotion.
Meanwhile Le Monde quotes an unnamed "right-wing heavyweight" as saying "It happened as expected." The person could only be saying that it was inevitable that DSK would commit a sexual impropriety given his proclivities.
We'll leave to the reader to assess the likelihood of those conspiracy theories.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/plot-dominique-strauss-kahn-complot-2011-5#ixzz1MTooQKTw
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 08:56 pm
@firefly,
From the New York Daily News article quoted by firefly:
Quote:
NYPD officials said Strauss-Kahn does not have diplomatic immunity. IMF officials only enjoy such a privilege for acts performed during their official duty, documents show.


Interesting choice of words. The New York Times may have worded it differently.
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:09 pm
I prefer the wording used in CNN's discussion of the diplomatic immunity issue:
Quote:
Deputy New York Police Commissioner Paul Browne said Strauss-Kahn does not have diplomatic immunity in this case nor, to the commissioner's knowledge, has he claimed it. CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin said it was unlikely to apply to Strauss-Kahn, regardless, because violent crimes like this one typically aren't covered under diplomatic immunity.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If he is with-in weeks proven by the journalists to be innocent then this will help him with the French voters.


I can just picture the relationship we would have with France if he become their president.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:12 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
apply to Strauss-Kahn, regardless, because violent crimes like this one typically aren't covered under diplomatic immunity
.

Since when as I remember some diplomatic once killing his wife or some such and the police could not arrest him.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:12 pm
@BillRM,
Proven innocent by journalists? If that's what he pins his hopes on, the boy's dead meat. Innocence just doesn't sell newspapers.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:18 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
No one is indispensable, not even a leading economist. The I.M.F. will continue functioning, with him or without him.

There is no way that this can be resolved in the next 72 hours. And his political future, as a possible candidate for President of France, appears finished. Not just because of the situation in NYC, but because of what I mentioned in my previous post--other women in France are coming forward to accuse him of assaulting them, and this has been all over French television.


Great timing however if this is found to be unfounded and the US had aided in destroying an innocent man politic future there is going to be an anti-American backlash not only in France but in all of the EU that is going to take a generation to heal.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:23 pm
Quote:
That wasn't the only scandal. There was a fuss last year when a young French author, Tristane Banon, described her encounter with him. She explained that she had interviewed him for a book about public figures and their missteps, and claimed she had to fight him off physically. She said she hadn't made a complaint at the time, because she didn't want to be "the girl who had a problem with a politician".

This side of DSK's life has almost become folklore in France. In 2009, humourist Stéphane Guillon even dedicated his comedy slot on the popular morning radio show La Matinale de France Inter (the French equivalent for Radio 4) to this particular side of the politician: "Exceptional measures have been taken at Radio France in order not to awaken the Beast. Here are the measures, as detailed by the trade unions. I quote: 'In order to guarantee the safety of the personnel, female workers are asked to wear long, unrevealing and anti-sex clothes'." This made Guillon famous, and almost got him fired. Unsurprisingly, DSK was not amused and expressed it bluntly when he entered the studio 20 minutes later.

"The great seducer" – that's how the French press politely refer to Strauss-Kahn. Anne Sinclair, his wife of 20 years, appears to deal with his reputation with surprising pragmatism. In an interview with L'Express magazine, she explained: "It's important for a politician to be able to seduce." She also wrote a blog post in 2008, right after DSK's affair with the IMF's economist, claiming this kind of incident can happen to a couple, and that they still love each other like at the early beginning. The post has since been deleted.

If DSK runs for president – he is a very serious contender – rumours will weigh on his campaign. I wouldn't be surprised if some of his collaborators tried to convince him not to, scared of lurid headlines. Every detail of his life is already under close scrutiny: a recent photograph showing him getting into a Porsche led to what media called the "Porschegate". It made a disastrous impression on public opinion, in a climate of low purchasing power and economic rigor.

Agnès Poirier, a French political journalist based in London, argued he's just French, a womaniser among many others who does better than most politicians. After all, former president Jacques Chirac was nicknamed "3-minutes-douche-comprise", literally "3-minutes-shower-included", as his driver reports in his book 25 Years With Him – more recently, Nicolas Sarkozy was mentioned in Gossip Girl as a "bad kisser".

Will DSK's reputation matter in the election? Do we, female voters, care about male politicians' sex lives? We all heard the stories in the news, and it is true that he might not be really popular among feminists. But the answer is no. As old-fashioned as it might seem, French voters tend to judge politicians according to their projects. What we think of them as men is another story. In 2007, nobody blinked at Sarkozy's failing marriage. Nor did we ever care about Chirac's alleged cheating on his wife Bernadette

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/13/french-women-scandal-politics

I sure this just kills women like Firefly....All that work to demonize men keeps not bearing fruit. And now it comes out that the 2002 event was in the public arena last year, only few French cared...Oy Vey!
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:24 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Proven innocent by journalists? If that's what he pins his hopes on, the boy's dead meat. Innocence just doesn't sell newspapers.
Showing up the ugly Americans however sells a lot of papers in Europe. If GSK was set up then the French will fall all over themselves to vote for him, even if he did a little slap and tickle. I should point out that so far reports of what he is said to have done are all over the place.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Showing up the ugly Americans however sells a lot of papers in Europe.


Lord can you just see it locking up the French head of the IMF and perhap the future President of France on the word of a hotel maid only to find he was innocent!!!!!!

Talk about selling papers in the EU by the truck load.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:31 pm
@wandeljw,
That was an interesting choice of words, I agree. It gave me a chuckle when I first read it.

On the issue of possible immunity...
Quote:
One possible legal defense strategy for Strauss-Kahn could be to try to apply the Vienna Conventions on Diplomatic Relations, which grant broad immunity from prosecution to diplomats serving in foreign jurisdictions. Article 31 of the convention says "a diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State." The U.S. ratified the treaty in 1972. The treaty also renders diplomats immune from prosecution in civil and administrative matters, with some exceptions. Under the convention, diplomats are not immune from "action relating to any professional or commercial activity exercised by the diplomatic agent in the receiving State outside his official functions."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/15/us-strausskahn-immunity-idUSTRE74E38220110515


Going for immunity would be a real stretch, but if his lawyers think they can pull it off, I think that's the first legal direction they will go. Just because the NYPD claims he doesn't have immunity, doesn't mean Strauss-Kahn's lawyers won't look for some loophole, somewhere, in some set of laws, to try to prove he has it. Their best strategy would be to evade the criminal justice system, if at all possible.

Strauss-Kahn's political opponents can just sit back and watch the show--everyone under the sun will be digging up dirt on this man now. And, what might have been covered up before, won't be covered up any more.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:46 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
No one is indispensable, not even a leading economist. The I.M.F. will continue functioning, with him or without him.


I know you could care less but at the moment the economical stability of the EU is hanging by a thread and we now have one of the major players lock up in a NYC cell.

Amazing that this just happen before vital meetings where trillions of dollars are at stake and the announcement period to run for the Presidential of France.

Who need terrorists willing to fly planes into buildings as one woman dialing 911 can do more harm to the world economic and perhaps destroy the US/EU relationship for a generation.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 09:59 pm
Quote:
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the IMF's 62-year-old managing director, was due to face a judge at New York City criminal court accused of an unlawful sexual act, attempted rape and unlawful imprisonment.
But late last night, after police, court officials and reporters had waited eight hours for him to appear, Mr Strauss-Kahn's legal team announced that he would be undergoing further tests before being formally charged.
Mr Strauss-Kahn was arrested in the early hours of Sunday morning.
The prominent French socialist, who was expected to challenge Nicolas Sarkozy's presidency next year, allegedly assaulted a 32-year-old maid who had arrived to clean his £1,855-a-night suite at the luxury Sofitel near Times Square, at 1pm on Saturday.
His lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, said he would "plead not guilty" while his wife, Anne Sinclair, a French television journalist, said: "His innocence will be established".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8515647/Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-medical-examination-delays-court-appearance.html

other reports has this delay being at the request of the state. It appears that the DA is looking for a way out, or is at least having second thoughts about going forwards. There are also reports that GSK himself alerted authorities about his location by calling the hotel about his missing phone, and also first hand accounts that he was calm and happy upon check out, thus disputing police accounts that he left in a rushed frenzy.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I sure this just kills women like Firefly....All that work to demonize men keeps not bearing fruit. And now it comes out that the 2002 event was in the public arena last year, only few French cared...Oy Vey!

Except now, this behavior surfaced in NYC, where it cannot be so easily dismissed, these are very serious criminal charges, and the French are very upset about the image of their country--he's disgracing France, and that makes it a different ballgame.
Quote:

The New York Times
May 15, 2011
Soul-Searching in France After Official’s Arrest Jolts Nation
By STEVEN ERLANGER and KATRIN BENNHOLD

PARIS — The arrest in New York of one of France’s leading global figures and a possible next president, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, on charges of attempted rape produced an earthquake of shock, outrage, disbelief and embarrassment throughout France on Sunday.

The country woke up to the tawdry allegations that Mr. Strauss-Kahn, 62, a leading Socialist and the managing director of the International Monetary Fund, had waylaid and tried to rape a maid in a $3,000-a-night suite at a New York hotel, and the reverberations were immediate.

The government of President Nicolas Sarkozy responded cautiously, saying the presumption of innocence must be maintained and the courts must be allowed to do their work, while the leader of the Socialist Party, Martine Aubry, admitted that she was “totally stupefied” by the charges against the man who had been considered most likely to bring her party back to power in next year’s presidential elections by defeating Mr. Sarkozy.

Some, including Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s wife, the American-born French television journalist Anne Sinclair, expressed disbelief in the charges and faith in her husband’s innocence. His lawyer has said he would plead not guilty. Others talked darkly of a possible “setup” of Mr. Sarkozy’s most prominent rival.

But there was a general recognition that whatever the outcome — unless the police have made a horrible error — the arrest had exploded Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s political hopes, upended France’s political landscape and abruptly ended his career at the I.M.F., which is in the middle of crucial negotiations about loans for distressed nations of the European Union. The I.M.F. quickly appointed an acting managing director on Sunday to replace Mr. Strauss-Kahn, who spent hours in a Manhattan holding cell awaiting arraignment, which was postponed until Monday after additional evidence was sought including DNA samples from his fingernails and skin.

As the impact of Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s predicament hit home, others, including some in the news media, began to reveal accounts, long suppressed or anonymous, of what they called Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s previously predatory behavior toward women and his aggressive sexual pursuit of them, from students and journalists to subordinates.

Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s extramarital affairs have long been considered an open secret. But the legal charges against him — which include attempted rape, an illegal sexual act and an effort to sequester another person against her will — are of an entirely different magnitude, even in France and elsewhere in continental Europe, where voters have generally shown more lenience than Americans toward the sexual behavior of prominent politicians, most notably the sexual escapades of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi of Italy.

“If the accusations turn out to be true — and even if they are proved false — this is a degrading thing,” said François Bayrou, a centrist who ran for the presidency in 2007.

The left-leaning newspaper Libération ran the headline “Shock. Political Bomb. Thunderclap.”

The deputy editor, Vincent Giret, wrote sadly on Sunday that Mr. Strauss-Kahn seemed “best-armed to respond to the disarray of the French, exhausted by the crisis and disoriented by the crazy reign of Sarkozy.” But Mr. Strauss-Kahn apparently believed he could win the presidency “without fighting,” Mr. Giret said, and so did not follow a path of “renunciation and abnegation.”

The entire French political world used superlatives to comment on Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s arrest. Dominique Paillé, the former spokesman of Mr. Sarkozy’s party, called it a “historical moment, in negative terms, in French politics.” Other Sarkozy supporters were predictably harsh.

The government spokesman, François Baroin, said that Mr. Strauss-Kahn should be afforded “the presumption of innocence.” The government, he told France 2 television, would “not go further in commentary about this matter” and called for “extraordinary prudence” in discussing the case.

Ms. Aubry, the Socialist leader, asked people to withhold judgment and called for an emergency meeting of the party leadership on Monday. “I call upon everyone to wait for the reality of the facts, to respect the presumption of innocence, and then, upon everyone, to keep the necessary decency,” she said. Ségolène Royal, the last Socialist presidential candidate, who lost to Mr. Sarkozy, talked about “deeply distressing news” but said that anyone is innocent until proven otherwise.

Some of Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s allies said that he must have been the victim of a setup. Christine Boutin, head of the small Christian Democratic Party, told French television: “That he could be taken in like that seems astounding, so he must have been trapped.”

Gérard Grunberg, a respected political scientist who studies the left, said that Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s political future and career at the I.M.F. were over. “It’s a political earthquake and a catastrophe for France,” he said in an interview. The charges have disrupted “the future presidential election in France, and the entire political spectrum,” making it more likely that a centrist candidate would run.

The absence of Mr. Strauss-Kahn would help the candidacy of François Hollande, a former party leader, as Socialist nominee, and it might encourage Ms. Aubry herself to run; Ms. Royal had already announced her intention to seek the nomination.

If Mr. Strauss-Kahn does not run, that will not necessarily help the far-right National Front and its leader, Marine Le Pen, but it is likely to make Mr. Sarkozy more plausible as an incumbent. “It’s going to help him to hope a little more,” Mr. Grunberg said.

As for suggestions that Mr. Strauss-Kahn might have fallen into an elaborate sting, Mr. Grunberg was dismissive. “If all this was a trap, he wouldn’t have fled in a panic,” he said.

Mr. Strauss-Kahn was criticized by the I.M.F after an affair with a subordinate, an economist, Piroska Nagy, in 2008. But an investigation found that he had not abused his position, the affair was consensual, and he publicly expressed regret. Ms. Sinclair, his third wife, was supportive. “These things happen in the life of any couple,” she wrote.

On Sunday, Ms. Sinclair issued a statement saying: “I don’t believe for a second the accusations leveled against my husband.”

Despite the rumors, one of the few journalists to point to them when Mr. Strauss-Kahn was appointed to the fund was Jean Quatremer, the Brussels correspondent for Libération. He wrote on his blog that Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s “only real problem” was his “rapport” with women. “Too insistent, he often comes close to harassment,” he wrote. “A weakness known by the media, but which nobody mentions. (We are in France.) The I.M.F., however, is an international institution with Anglo-Saxon morals. A misplaced gesture, a too specific allusion, and it will be a media scramble.”

Mr. Strauss-Kahn behaved aggressively toward a young female journalist and novelist, Tristane Banon, in 2002, according to the newspaper Le Parisien and other Web sites, and corroborated by Ms. Banon herself in a 2007 television interview on Paris Première, a cable channel. At the time, she said that a French politician — whom she later said was Mr. Strauss-Kahn — had tried to rape her in an empty apartment in Paris after she had contacted him for a book she was writing.

“He wanted to grab my hand while answering my questions, and then my arm. We ended up fighting, since I said clearly, ‘No, no.’ We fought on the floor, I kicked him, he undid my bra, he tried to remove my jeans,” she said.

Afterward, she said that she had contacted a well-known lawyer who already had “a pile of files on Mr. Strauss-Kahn,” but that she never filed a complaint. “I didn’t dare; I didn’t wish to be the girl who had a problem with a politician for the rest of my life,” she said.

Her mother, Anne Mansouret, a Socialist, later confronted Mr. Strauss-Kahn and asked why he had attacked her daughter, she told Rue 89, an online newspaper. According to her, he responded: “I don’t know what happened, I went crazy.”

At the Institut d’Études Politiques de Paris, known as Sciences Po, where he was an economics professor, “he had a real power of attraction,” said a former student in an interview. “There were always hordes of female students waiting to talk to him at the end of his classes,” she said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Well before Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s arrest there had been reports that Mr. Sarkozy was gathering information to discredit Mr. Strauss-Kahn should he run for president. In a famous incident, reported by the news magazine Le Point, Mr. Strauss-Kahn confronted Mr. Sarkozy in the men’s room at the Group of 20 summit meeting in Pittsburgh in September 2009, saying: “I’ve had more than enough of this continued gossip about my private life and about supposed dossiers and photos that could come out against me. I know that this is coming from the Élysée. Tell your guys to stop or I’ll go to the courts.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/16/world/europe/16france.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print


This may change how politician's sexual behaviors are regarded in France. From the descriptions of people like Tristane Banon, Strauss-Kahn wasn't just a womanizer, or "the great seducer", he sounds like a sexual predator with an aggressive/violent streak. And, right now, whether he's innocent or guilty, Strauss-Kahn is a national embarrassment to France in the minds of many of his countrymen.

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Eurpeans dont share the American puritanical trait that has us labeling a broad section of the erotic games as sexual assault, as violence.


England share our sickness banning SM materail in the same manner as child porn and do not forget trying two ten years olds as adults for rape for playing doctor with a little girl playmate.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:18 pm
@BillRM,
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the thread topic, Bill.
Why you are bringing this up here at all beats me! Neutral
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2011 10:24 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
The Eurpeans dont share the American puritanical trait that has us labeling a broad section of the erotic games as sexual assault, as violence.


England share our sickness banning SM materail in the same manner as child porn and do not forget trying two ten years olds as adults for rape for playing doctor with a little girl playmate.
and the feminist there had the industrial sized balls to call their savior community "Rape Crisis" England, Scotland et all...taking the name of the product that they are trying to sell. When it comes to the feminists and state approach to sex the UK is much more like America than they are a part of Europe.
 

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