9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 10:09 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He is charged with violent felonies. That's not "pretty darn minor
According to the State, according to me this is a relatively minor sexual disconnect. By relative I mean in relationship to sexual aggression problems that are seen on a daily basis in the city of New York. I bet of all the sex aggression problems that happened in New York this day that this even would have a difficult time making the top 500 list. Most of them went unreported, but that is another matter.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 01:09 am
@hawkeye10,
Non Means Non
By MAUREEN DOWD

Quote:
In Woody Allen’s “Midnight in Paris,” an American writer clambers into a yellow vintage Peugeot every night and is transported back to hobnob with Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Picasso, Dali, Toulouse-Lautrec and Gertrude Stein in the shimmering movable feast. The star-struck aspiring novelist from Pasadena, played by Owen Wilson, gets to escape his tiresome fiancée and instead talk war and sex with Papa Hemingway, who barks “Have you ever shot a charging lion?” “Who wants to fight?” and “You box?”

Many Frenchmen — not to mention foundering neighbor, the crepuscular Casanova Silvio Berlusconi — may be longing to see that Peugeot time machine come around a cobblestone corner.

Some may yearn to return to a time when manly aggression was celebrated rather than suspected, especially after waking up Tuesday to see the remarkable front page of Libération — photos of six prominent French women in politics with the headline “Marre des machos,” or “Sick of machos.”

“Is this the end of the ordinary misogyny that weighs on French political life?” the paper asked, adding: “Tongues have become untied.”

In the wake of the Dominique Strauss-Kahn scandal, as more Frenchwomen venture sexual harassment charges against elite men, the capital of seduction is reeling at the abrupt shift from can-can to can’t-can’t. Le Canard Enchaîné, a satirical weekly, still argues that “News always stops at the bedroom door,” but many French seem ready to bid adieu to the maxim.

As Libération editor Nicolas Demorand wrote in an editorial: “Now that voices have been freed, and the ceiling of glass and shame has been bashed in, other scandals may now arise.”

After long scorning American Puritanism and political correctness on gender issues, the French are shocked to find themselves in a very American debate about the male exploitation/seduction of women, and the nature of consent.

Nicolas Sarkozy is trying to reverse his spiraling fortunes by shaking off his old reputation as a jumpy and flashy Hot Rabbit and recasting himself as a sober and quiet family man. One newspaper noted that the enduring image from the G-8 summit meeting in Deauville was Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, in white smock, showing the other leaders’ wives her baby bump.

The French president wasted no time jettisoning a junior minister — also the mayor of Draveil — who was accused of sexual assault by two former employees. Georges Tron resigned on Sunday after the two women in their mid-30s said they had gotten the courage to come forward after the Strauss-Kahn arrest.

Tron, it seems, liked to give foot massages and sometimes more. It got to the point where some women would wear boots if they knew Monsieur Masseur was coming to a meeting.

“Yes, my client is a reflexologist,” riposted Tron’s lawyer, Olivier Schnerb. “He’s never hidden it. He has given conferences at the Lion’s Club. It’s a healing treatment.”

In Le Journal du Dimanche, Valérie Toranian, the editor of Elle, wrote about the puncturing of France’s “Latin culture of seduction”: “We laugh about our Italian neighbors, but the stone today is in our garden.” (She probably didn’t want to use a shoe-on-the-other-foot metaphor given the foot fetishist on the loose.)

On Tuesday, Libération presented interviews with a parade of women who poured out long-stifled grievances about their paternalistic culture: How they feel they must wear pants to work to fend off leering; how they’re tired of men tu-ing instead of vous-ing and making comments like “O.K., but just because you have pretty eyes”; how they’re fed up with married pols who come to Paris three days a week and sleep with their assistants; how, as Aurélie Filipetti, a socialist representative, complained, male pols and journalists squat on 80 percent of the political space.

Filipetti remembers hearing a male representative say during a ceremony, in front of three female representatives, “Hunting is like women. You always regret the shots you didn’t take.”

Corinne Lepage, a former environment minister, talked about the de trop dirty jokes, recalling how once, when a female representative mentioned a rape, a male colleague called out: “With her face, it’s not going to happen to her.”

Nicole Guedj, a lawyer and former minister, said wistfully of male colleagues: “One thinks, ‘I wish you wouldn’t just look at me. I wish you would listen to me.’ ”

Roselyne Bachelot, a government minister, warned about lechers: “Something important has happened in these last few days. The lifting of a very real omertà, which had been reinforced by a legal arsenal that protected private life. I think that public men have understood that the respect of privacy now has some limits.”

Getting French men to change will still, she said, be pushing up “le rocher de Sisyphe.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?_r=1&hp

A rare case where I think that Dowd gets it wrong. I believe that the French are having the conversation, and that a few peevish women are letting go with their bashes on men, but at the end of the day I dont expect much to change.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 01:28 am
Interesting: one of the major critics of the states treatment of DSK now feels the need to trot out his feminist bona fides:

Jack Lang, deputy PS Pas-de-Calais, an associate professor of law
Quote:
On France 2, Monday, May 16, I object strongly against the decision of Judge Melissa Jackson to detain Dominique Strauss-Kahn . I affirm that this decision shows the partisan nature of the procedure and unilateral dependent against him. I watch because it is contrary to American tradition: the bail is normally granted except homicide. In other words, according to an old French formula, unless killed. Is it sacrilege to be indignant against a measure that tramples upon the constant practice?

Then immediately snaps against me a mini-trial for witchcraft. We purposely isolated the words "dead man" to infer that that day would have trivialized the crime of rape. Hocus-pocus strange then that my topic is the only procedure for detention, it is as if I had decided on the merits of the case that I do not know.

Law professor that I was fairly beaten in France and elsewhere, against arbitrary police custody or imprisonment for not reporting illegal abuse of power committed by an American court against a French citizen . From my comments disfigured, I was suspected of complicity with regard to sex crimes that I have always vigorously opposed. How can you lend me a thought too vulgar, too stupid, too low and too manifestly contrary to my beliefs forever.

Long-time feminist activist, I fought hard against all forms of sexism and machismo. My fight for the rights, including women's rights, is known to many. It is constitutive of my civic since my youth.

Without going back to my participation in very old Planned Parenthood or my support for the voluntary interruption of pregnancy (abortion), I remind of more recent developments: first mayor of a town in France (Blois) to establish strict equality rights -woman in a city council even before the reform Jospin, I am the originator of a text financially penalizing those political parties which do not ensure equal access of women to elected office. I fight simultaneously for the criminalization of rape.

Mock trial

Minister of Education, I adopt radical new measures for the rights of girls. Author of a book, Tomorrow's Women (Grasset), I participate, at the request of UN Secretary General, to preparation of the Beijing conference on women's rights in 1995. As such, I personally disagree and sometimes a local presence to violence against women in many countries.

From all this, I naturally does no glory. These actions are to me obvious. I am in full solidarity associations, personalities, women who engage forcefully and show a constant vigilance, even if I, temporarily and unjustly, be the subject of controversy.

Construction sites to open is no shortage: the persistent and appalling social and economic inequalities between men and women, exploitation, abuse and illiteracy of millions of women worldwide.

Nothing will distract me, not even the mock trial, from my fierce and relentless action to protect and defend the rights of human beings and especially women's rights? This is the very meaning of my life.


http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2011/05/31/dsk-je-persiste-et-je-signe_1529978_3232.html

Translation by Google
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:08 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
The poor are reminded every day of their limitations . I still think it is not wrong to send a powerful rich man to gaol if he is guilty . That people resent the rich for whatever reason is immaterial IF it does not effect the trial result .


For myself I think it would be far better to transfer a large percent of the wealth back to the middle class and the poor that had been move to the super rich in the last twenty years or so.

Picking out every once in the blue moon a super rich person and scarifying him or her to the mob to made them feel better instead seems kind of sad and pointless.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:11 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The maid may want justice and not money. She may want him to go to prison. And, so far, she has been helping the prosecution to try to send him to prison.


Yes and that is why there is now three lawyers not one lawyer not two lawyers but three lawyers working for her.

Justice is going to come in the form of $$$$$$ if those lawyers had anything to say about it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:12 am
@engineer,
Quote:
So if most the evidence that Hawk asked for above (physical injury and signs of resistance, history of abusive sexual behavior, no evidence of "victimhood" by the alleged victim, etc.) is brought out in court and DSK is found guilty it means nothing unless he admits to it? By that standard our prisons are full of innocents.


Not at all. I didn't say that. Are you saying that everybody in jail is guilty? A guilty verdict does not necessarily mean the guilt is proved. That's all I'm saying. The authorities offered Mike Tyson a year's remission to admit his guilt. He refused and served the year. I don't believe he was guilty of rape beyond a doubt. Dreyfus was innocent. Jesus was innocent.

It's a witch-hunt. And for the worst possible reasons. Money. And if the cleaning woman just wants "justice" (revenge), which I don't believe, then she is no Christian.

Impulsive, hysterical, voyeuristic, thrumming indignation at the impurity of men is in the dock here.

Those tabloid front pages ff so kindly brought to our attention were produced by cynics seeking to expose the nature of the public mental state to view. If sales of the papers were higher on that day than usual they would be sniggeringly happy at their feat. Which would be a scientific one. People who produce those things are well aware that it is impossible to underestimate the stupidity of the public. By bringing them to our attention ff was saying that it is impossible to underestimate the stupidity of A2Kers. She needed to think that we are stupid to think they made a contribution to this debate when they were specifically designed to increase the sales of flattened out woodpulp with ink inserts.

So newspapers are on trial as well. A not guilty verdict would be disastrous for them. As it would for many others.

The real meaning of this debate can be found in the refusal to answer many of the points I have raised. When, or if, I get the time I will go through all my posts and make a list of those unanswered points. Then it will be obvious, as it is to a psychologist when the patient refuses a question, what the unmentionable sensitive spots are.

How did the cleaning woman get into the US? And then get such a job? A certain guile is involved in both those operations.

Quote:
Rubin Carter was falsely tried
The crime was murder 'one' guess who testified
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers they all went along for the ride
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool's hand ?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.


Hurricane. Bob Dylan.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:15 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
She is certainly going to have some problems collecting on a civil suit against DSK, she should have better odds with her suit against her employer.


Sorry but to me that fact that the money is out of the reach of her lawyers in a civil suit judgment just mean that the pressure will be on for a settlement that will result in the criminal charges going away.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:16 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Definitely...and throw away the key .


Rubbish. The anti-Christian intolerance and the specious grandstanding are there for all to see.

Are you in the prison building business Io?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:19 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Are you in the prison building business Io?


You can also now go into the business of running private prisons for the state.

Soon thank to business lobbying I can foresee a overdue library book sending me away for a few years.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 04:46 am
@BillRM,
Smiling at a baby is the cliche here in some circles Bill.

What are the team's estimates of the number of non-consensual fornications and oral exploitations in the US in 2010?

What would DSK's persecutors suggest in the event of a fertility strike by women organised on the Internet as the Arab Spring is said to have been? The radical feminists are hoping the biologists will separate females from motherhood, as Huxley predicted. The slightly less radical ones are seeking to separate mothers from children at birth. And milder forms involve the increasing institutionalisation of children at earlier ages. Many children in England start school at 3 these days.

The family is being attacked from all sides which financially and politically benefit from its abolition. With sperm banks men can be phased out as anything other that the doers of the dirty and dangerous jobs.

"Votes for women, purity for men."
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 06:45 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Are you saying that everybody in jail is guilty? A guilty verdict does not necessarily mean the guilt is proved. That's all I'm saying. The authorities offered Mike Tyson a year's remission to admit his guilt. He refused and served the year. I don't believe he was guilty of rape beyond a doubt. Dreyfus was innocent. Jesus was innocent.

But DSK could very well be guilty. I can see those of you who maintain he is innocent, but I don't understand how you say you will not be swayed by evidence presented in court. If the only thing that will convince you of his guilt is a confession, that's not going to happen, not because he is a martyr but because he would never confess.

spendius wrote:
It's a witch-hunt. And for the worst possible reasons. Money. And if the cleaning woman just wants "justice" (revenge), which I don't believe, then she is no Christian.

No, she's not, but that's beside the point. Why is justice non-Christian? The idea that she is after money is not coming from anything she or her representives have said and as several people have pointed out, there is no US money to be had. If someone did this to my wife or daughter, I would be seeking justice through the courts just like this woman. How does that make me non-Christian?

spendius wrote:
Impulsive, hysterical, voyeuristic, thrumming indignation at the impurity of men is in the dock here.

Either that or violence towards a maid in a hotel. All the hysterical speculation is not directed at men here, it is coming from them.

spendius wrote:
Those tabloid front pages ff so kindly brought to our attention were produced by cynics seeking to expose the nature of the public mental state to view. ...So newspapers are on trial as well. A not guilty verdict would be disastrous for them. As it would for many others.

I agree tabloids are in the business of speculation and exploitation but I disagree on the impact of a not guilty verdict. They'll make just as much hay from either verdict. Either the "poor maid denied justice" or the "international banker struck down by conspiracy" line should be good for a few more sales.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 06:56 am
@engineer,
Quote:
All the hysterical speculation is not directed at men here, it is coming from them.

Yes.
I couldn't agree more.
Thank you for stating the obvious, engineer.
Now, if a woman poster had said it, she would have been called hysterical or worse ....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:12 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Picking out every once in the blue moon a super rich person and scarifying him or her to the mob to made them feel better instead seems kind of sad and pointless.
Seems pointless to me too...what does that have to do with IF a person is guilty they shouldnt expect to get away with it just because they are rich and powerful .
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:19 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
IF a person is guilty they shouldnt expect to get away with it just because they are rich and powerful .


The rich can protect themselves far better from society then the poor and that always will be the case.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:19 am
@spendius,
Most sex offenders are multiple offenders when they are caught and they very rarely reform . Murderers on an average murder only one person in their life time whether they are gaoled or not . A small percentage of murderers are multiple murderers . Do you have a problem with locking up multiple sex offenders and multiple murderers ?

Quote:
Are you in the prison building business Io?
The USA already locks up more of their population than most countries..... surely you dont have a problem with those guilty of sex offences being locked up ? I am sure they can make room for one froggy IF he is found guilty .
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:21 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
The USA already locks up more of their population than most countries.....


Off hand we are by far the winner compare to any other major country in the world and you see nothing wrong with that fact?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:25 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Interesting: one of the major critics of the states treatment of DSK now feels the need to trot out his feminist bona fides

If this article is accurate, then this guy deserves an apology. The way his original response was categorized/translated was "What's the big deal? No one died." If he really meant "bail is usually automatic unless someone died", then his statement while incorrect was portrayed in the completely wrong light.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:30 am
@BillRM,
Circa 1800 Britain had draconian laws that sent excess prison population to Oz . Today's USA builds more prisons . Both societies are guilty of not distributing wealth . The rich lock them up to keep their wealth safe .

It doesnt hurt for the same laws to apply to the rich . IF he is guilty, I suspect it is not his first time . The law of averages for sex offenders and the chances of suddenly going mad and attacking a hotel maid strongly suggest he has done this before . This may be the first time he has pushed it, but it would not be the first time he tried to get sex from a peasant . IF he is guilty of overstepping the mark, then I have no problem with him serving time . The rich should realise the same laws protect everyone .

Imagine it was a black male waiter who took off his clothes and attacked a rich successful white woman....Madeleine Albright for example Very Happy ....would we even be having this conversation or would it be lock the guilty bastard up ?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:45 am
@Ionus,
Sorry but he is under this attack because of this position in life and the state would not be wheeling out millions in resources and the victim would no have three lawyers looking to become wealth off him if he was a common person.

Guilty or not guilty he is not being treated like a middle class person charge with forcing a blow job off a maid at holiday inn.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 07:58 am
@Ionus,
Side note the common man almost never get his or her day in court as to mount any real defense is beyond the means of that kind of a person.

A charge and the pleading is where the rubber meets the road for 99 percents of the persons charge in our so call justice system.

Guilty or not guilty you get your lawyer to do a plea deal and for a force blow job with no physical harm done to the victim and no criminal record before that charge in 62 years or life what to bet that the results would be little or if any prison time?
 

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