9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:37 pm
Quote:
When confronted with the fact that her written asylum application statement made no mention of the gang rape, she stated that she had fabricated the gang rape, as well as other details of her life in Guinea, in collaboration with an unnamed male with whom she consulted as she was preparing to seek asylum,” the court papers state. “She told prosecutors this man had given her a cassette tape that included an account of a fictional rape, which she had memorized. Ultimately, she told prosecutors she decided not to reference the rape in her written application.”

So the gang rape was not a piece of her personal history, not even a fictitious piece adopted for the sake of the asylum application. Whatever logic, if any, drove her to recount it to the district attorney’s staff, they could see it only as a stunning demonstration of Ms. Diallo’s ability to weep over a sexual assault that had never taken place, and then to quickly pile another falsehood on top of it.

“Most significant is her ability to recount that fiction as fact with complete conviction,” the prosecutors wrote.

Having been tricked by Ms. Diallo, none of the seasoned lawyers or investigators could ask a jury to convict Mr. Strauss-Kahn based on those very tools of dramatic persuasion. Her gang-rape performance, they wrote, was “fatal.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/nyregion/housekeepers-false-tale-undid-strauss-kahn-case.html
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 03:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
When we look at Vance are we looking at political incompetence or is in naivete?? Given his background either is shocking, but these are the only two explanations o which I am aware that account for this stunning mistake, he either was not aware of how devious women can be or he thought that fighting on the side of the alleged victim is always the right call.

Either way his future in politics just got dim.
Note: the French are amazed and appalled that we put political animals in the prosecutor for the state chairs, and they have a good point.....this is no way to run a justice system, we should attempt to do better.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:18 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Too bad there is such a thing as sovereign immunity otherwise DSK could sue both the state of New York and Vance himself.

He doesn't have a case against either NYC or NYS. This wasn't a malicious prosecution. They had legal probable cause to arrest him and to seek an indictment. And, it was their investigation that resulted in revealing credibility problems with the complainant--info they promptly turned over to the defense. Even though they might have handled it better, they played by the book on this case, and they really aren't liable.

His civil case would be against his accuser, but only if he could prove her accusations were deliberately false and malicious. She might have lied about a number of things but, so far, there is no evidence that she deliberately lied about being sexually assaulted by DSK. Vance's dropping of the charges is not a vindication of DSK, it does not mean he did not sexually assault the maid, it simply means they could not rely on her credibility to prove the charges against him beyond a reasonable doubt.

Don't you hold DSK responsible for any of his suffering as a result of this matter? Even if he had made a snap decision to have a brief, hurried consensual sexual encounter with a total stranger, don't you see him as having any responsibility for the consequences of that decision on his part--including winding up in a criminal case? Don't you think that split second decisions to have brief sexual contact with total strangers are more than slightly reckless?

So, whether what happened in that hotel room was consensual or criminal, it involved decisions he made--and, either way, it would indicate poor judgment on his part, for not considering possible consequences to himself as a result of what he chose to do--with a total stranger. So, I have a hard time seeing him as some sort of helpless victim. He contributed to his own downfall by whatever he did in that hotel room.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He contributed to his own downfall by whatever he did in that hotel room.
that is a chick/egg situation, because as easily as you can argue that the problem was that DSK did not conform to the American victim culture meets police state one can argue that the problem is that ignorant Americans have been sold the police state on the basis of an alleged rape and abuse crisis which does exist.

DSK was warned by Sarkozy at least, but I am not ready to condemn DSK for not conforming, as freedom is worth fighting for even when a cost in imposed for doing so. If I were in DSK's shoes I might well have made the same choice he did.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:37 pm
@firefly,
Sorry dear the woman had been proven a complete liar even concerning another rape that never happen so as far as most people without your type of ax to grind he is complete clear.

Lord I love thinking back to your painting her as a hard working and religion woman who just happen to be attacked by an evil male.

Then we did not know about her lying to the IRS and the INS and her drug dealer boyfriend who she appear to be helping laundering money for with banks accounts all over the US. On and on.

I forgot all those lawyers she were surrounded with almost from day one that you was selling was just there out of the goodness of their lawyers hearts to protect her good name.

Of course you seems not to have any problem attacking DSK name by just stating with nothing to back it up that DSK had a history of misbehaving with the hotel staff.

Did you laugh when her lawyers try to float the idea that Air France would only had male crews when he was flying with them? I know that I was rolling on the floor over that one.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 04:53 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Did you laugh when her lawyers try to float the idea that Air France would only had male crews when he was flying with them? I know that I was rolling on the floor over that one.
How about the one about many women all around the world have been abused by DSK but have not come forwards because they are too scared? WHO ARE THESE WOMEN? All they can show me is one young woman who says that DSK got too randy with her, but never raped her, and by the way her mother is one of DSK lays who is now clearly deeply bitter. Can anyone besides me add 1 plus 1??
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
DSK was warned by Sarkozy at least, but I am not ready to condemn DSK for not conforming, as freedom is worth fighting for even when a cost in imposed for doing so. If I were in DSK's shoes I might well have made the same choice he did.

DSK wasn't just warned by Sarkozy, he had told an interviewer that one of the things of concern to him, in the upcoming election for the French presidency, was being set up for a sex scandal because of his reputation.

So, for him to have impulsively decided on a quickie sex romp, whether consensual or not, with a total stranger, was extremely reckless in terms of his failure to consider the possible consequences and repercussions which might result. This has nothing to do with a "police state" or his failure "to conform"--it's his failure to consider what sexual contact with a total stranger could do to him, a man in his position--the woman could have been planted by a political rival, she could have been as nutty as a fruitcake, she could have been after extorting money from him--even if the very brief encounter was consensual. That he apparently didn't consider these things, before making a decision to have some sort of hurried sexual contact with her is his owned damn fault, and it's why I don't see him as an innocent victim in any of this. He bears some responsibility for the mess he found himself in--considerable responsibility.
Quote:
freedom is worth fighting for even when a cost in imposed for doing so. If I were in DSK's shoes I might well have made the same choice he did.

Then DSK, and you, should both accept the cost of his expressing his sexual "freedom" in that Sofitel hotel room, and stop bitching about it, and stop trying to blame the maid or Vance for ruining his life. Whether it was consensual or forced, it was his decision either way, he decided on what he wanted to do in that hotel room, and he certainly wound up paying a cost for that reckless decision that he alone made.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:22 pm

The DSK Prosecutors Get It Right

By Emily Bazelon
Quote:
Almost from start to finish, the DSK rape prosecution has been an ungodly mess. District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr. was right to arrest Strauss-Kahn before he left the country, but wrong to ask the court to hold him without bail. That decision led to a rushed investigation and declarations about the "unwavering credibility" of DSK's accuser, Nafissatou Diallo, that were unnecessary and in the end untenable. As the French have and will continue to point out, this sorry chapter of the case should make us think hard about how our supposed standard of innocent till proven guilty collides with the reality of the media frenzy that follows a sensational indictment.

Diallo, for her part, was right to accuse a powerful man of sexual assault, if she was telling the truth, but wrong to lie to the DA's office and the grand jury about so many other details of her life. Personally, I believe her account of a forced sexual encounter. I also don't find any single falsehood she told along the way particularly damning. But her “pattern of untruthfulness,” as prosecutors put it in their motion to dismiss the charges against DSK, is too much. I can also see that by telling a story of being gang raped in Guinea with tears and utter conviction, Diallo wrecked her credibility with prosecutors. For immigrants seeking asylum, there are plenty of incentives to tell such stories, as this recent New Yorker piece by Suketu Mehta convincingly shows. But that doesn't mean such a lie won't come back to bite you if you've moved from asylum applicant to criminal complainant.

Diallo also didn't help the case by hiring a lawyer who filed a suit for civil damages even as Diallo professed she was not interested in financial gain from the case. The phone call she made to her felon fiance in prison is also a problem (though I finished reading the DA's motion today still unsure about its correct translation). And so we are left with DSK going free for a crime he may have committed, and one more high-profile reminder of the terrible difficulty of proving rape charges with no witnesses or clear proof of physical assault.

Still, there is one aspect of this case that prosecutors got exactly right. That’s their decision to end the case against DSK because they themselves do not credit Diallo’s testimony beyond a reasonable doubt. Prosecutors don’t have to hold themselves to this high standard: Legally speaking, as today’s motion acknowledges, they can pursue an indictment under New York’s rules of legal ethics if the charges are merely supported by probable cause. But the motion explains that “for generations, before determining whether a case should proceed to trial, felony prosecutors in New York County have insisted that they be personally convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of the defendant’s guilt, and believe themselves able to prove that guilt to a jury.” This is the right standard given the crushing weight of an indictment for the defendant. Prosecutors have the power to destroy people. They should use that power forcefully when they’re sure of the basis for the charges they bring, and refrain from using it at all when they’re not. That’s the single good lesson the DSK case teaches.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor.html
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

So, for him to have impulsively decided on a quickie sex romp, whether consensual or not, with a total stranger, was extremely reckless in terms of his failure to consider the possible consequences and repercussions which might result
There is for a refreshing change some truth to what you say here....a few of his friends are of the opinion that he was in a self destructive faze because he was ambivalent about being the president of France. We know that he has said that the week-end was a blow off steam before the Economic Conference which was to be following with announcing that he was leaving the IMF and then devoting full time to the effort of winning the election, so the timing is right.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
I love the statement that not one of the lies was damning by itself in the article.

Let see off hand lying about a rape that never happen not only on INS forms but to the NYC investigators and even putting on a show for them in pretending to be emotional upset about reliving the details of this "gang rape" is damning all by itself.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
You know I think that most males had acted reckless over sex in their lives more then once.

The only surprising thing to me is that he acted so at his stage of life/age.

At 62 I am far less likely to act the fool then when I was in my 30s.

Of course that all depends (looking over my shoulder for wife} how attract the woman happen to be.

In the case of this maid you got to be kidding me DSK.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 05:57 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You know I think that most males had acted reckless over sex in their lives more then once.
People are sometimes reckless, it is a part of being human....we can attempt to beat that part of humanity to death with the police state (it has been tried often, you know) but I am not a fan. The state MUST show compassion and understanding towards human nature, something that America fails miserably at.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
a few of his friends are of the opinion that he was in a self destructive faze because he was ambivalent about being the president of France

Well, I don't know if he was in a self-destructive phase, or if the man is just plain self-destructive, but his own actions in that hotel suite managed to bring his career to a crashing halt. I hope the quickie sex/blowjob was worth it to him.

Apparently, Bunny Boy had also been trying for vaginal sex with the maid--without a condom, with a total stranger he had laid eyes on only minutes (moments?) before. So, he must like to risk STD's as well.

Living dangerously and acting recklessly that way can get you lots of things--including arrested on sexual assault charges. Too bad this intelligent man is led by his penis rather than his brain. He's responsible for the decisions he made in that hotel suite, and the consequences of those decisions. He tanked his own career. The maid is not to blame, and the D.A. is not to blame. DSK got himself in this mess. Fortunately, for him, he got out of it without a criminal conviction.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:44 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Well, I don't know if he was in a self-destructive phase, or if the man is just plain self-destructive, but his own actions in that hotel suite managed to bring his career to a crashing halt. I hope the quickie sex/blowjob was worth it to him.


So it ok to put the blame on the victim as long as the victim is male Firefly?

A woman is supposed to not be blamed for being a rape victim even if she is unwised enough to fall asleep in a crack house naked.

However a man is to blame for being charge incorrectly and falsely with rape because he was unwise enough to engage in fast commerce sex in his hotel room?

Do you not at times feel shame at your double standards?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 08:52 pm
@BillRM,
I am more impressed that Firefly ignores that justice requires that the response and penalty be proportional to the act. He we have her saying that a consensual blow job with the wrong woman with the result being a lost career is "suits you right buddy", which is outrageous. Again we see that she has no compassion for men, nor any interest in justice.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 09:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
No woman it would seems in Firefly universe is not responsible for any misdeed if it also involved a man and sex.

Now this is going to be shocking to Firefly and I am sure she will not be able to wrap her mind around it but the person who is totally at fault for what had happen have a vagina not a penis.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 11:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I am more impressed that Firefly ignores that justice requires that the response and penalty be proportional to the act. He we have her saying that a consensual blow job with the wrong woman with the result being a lost career is "suits you right buddy", which is outrageous


I am saying that this particular man, who had reason to believe he'd possibly be set up for a sexual scandal, was a damned fool to engage in any sort of sexual contact with a hotel maid he'd just laid eyes on--even if it was consensual. And you had agreed with me that his behavior in that hotel suite was reckless and self destructive--so don't change your tune now and say that I'm being outrageous. This wasn't just the wrong woman, or simply a total stranger, it was a woman he had just laid eyes on, who had entered his suite to clean it. Rolling Eyes This man doesn't seem to think at all. His judgment is nil, his consideration of consequences is nil. And, when you act that recklessly, and that impulsively, without considering consequences at all, you are being self destructive and you are responsible for the results of your actions in terms of hurting yourself. And his own actions, and his own decisions, in that hotel suite, wound up costing him his career. And ,he did this to himself, for what? A blowjob?

I don't know the truth of what went on in that hotel suite and neither do you. All along, I've said I was waiting for the trial. The trial was my main interest in this case--I wanted to see those high-priced lawyers earn their money. I like to watch legal battles, particularly with top-notch opponents. Otherwise, this was just another sexual assault case, and, apart from the high profile of the defendant, not all that different or unusual or particularly interesting.

Only the maid and DSK know whether a sexual assault took place. She has not been accused of deliberately lodging a false complaint, and the D.A. was clear on that point, so the maid's allegations against DSK carry as much weight as his allegation that it was consensual in my mind, and, without a trial, the issue will never be clearly resolved for me--nor, at this point, does it matter to me. I can understand why this case could not move toward trial, and that's the end of it.

As far as this case did go, I do think justice was served. Law enforcement acted on what appeared to be a credible criminal complaint, they had some forensic evidence, they identified the suspect, and they made a justifiable arrest--just as they do day in and day out all the time. And, when credibility problems with the claimant became apparent, they shared that evidence with the defense and then considered whether they could move forward despite these revelations. And, ultimately, they decided that the witness was too flawed to assure them of proving DSK's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and they dropped the charges. They were never knowingly trying to go after a man they did not believe to be guilty, and they clearly did not want to prosecute a man they were not convinced was guilty. That's the way prosecutors should think and act--that's the ethical standard we expect them to uphold.

One can argue about whether the D.A. could have done this differently, or done that differently, but they did play by the book. More importantly, they treated DSK just like every other defendant that is arrested in Manhattan, and they took the claimant's initially credible allegations seriously even though they were made against a powerful and influential man--they upheld the notion of equality under the law, for both the alleged victim and the defendant. I don't think anyone should have an ax to grind with the D.A.'s office for that. And no one should complain they have abandoned rape victims because they have now dropped the charges, because they really had no other choice at this point, given this particular witness, and their track record clearly indicates their commitment to prosecuting such crimes in other instances.

I don't think there are any winners in this situation. DSK's and the maid's lives have both been damaged by it. Had he never laid a hand on her, consensually or non consensually, none of this would have ever happened. I do believe she entered his hotel suite that day, believing it to be empty, only to clean it. Whatever happened in that suite, as well as the aftermath, are events he set in motion--recklessly and unthinkingly. His downfall was his own doing. The man is self destructive. Maybe this entire incident was enough of a jolt to wake him up about that. For his sake, I hope so. It would probably be the only positive thing to come out of this sordid mess.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Aug, 2011 11:12 pm
Take a look at this the gang rape story was not on her INS form and was make up out of the blue for the investigators and she told the story very convincingly.

With this kind of material in the puble record she and her lawyers are not going to get a dime out of DSK no matter where a civil trial might be held.

Now the interesting question is when are her lawyers going to stop throwing good money after bad in this case trying to pursue a civil case and pack their tents?

This also kind of make my point that most women can tell outright lies far more convincingly the most men can tell the truth.

Thank god she was not bright enough to keep her story straight and not changing over time.

===============================================
Disclaimer for AM benefit the thank god comment was a saying to express an emotion and I am not a believer in any god.
===============================================
---------------------------------------------------------------------

With False Tale About Gang Rape, Strauss-Kahn Case CrumblesBy JIM DWYER
Published: August 23, 2011
LinkedinDiggMySpacePermalink. For those who thought, as I did, that the best way to resolve the Dominique Strauss-Kahn case was to have a jury decide his guilt or innocence, the brief filed this week by the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., shows in powerful detail why that approach almost certainly would have been unethical and a fool’s errand.

.Take, for instance, the story of the gang rape that the hotel housekeeper, Nafissatou Diallo, told and retold, and that seemed to have been associated with her application for asylum.

Many people might have been inclined to write off the gang-rape tale as the sort of tactical fiction that people deploy to gain entry to the United States. Such a lie would make sense in Darwinian terms, conferring an advantage on her and her child, but seem to have little bearing on her credibility about Mr. Strauss-Kahn.

It may come as a surprise to learn that Ms. Diallo did not, in fact, tell the gang-rape lie on her asylum application.

What happened was this: Two days after the encounter with Mr. Strauss-Kahn, Ms. Diallo was asked by prosecutors if she had been the victim of other assaults. Indeed she had been, she told them: she had been gang-raped by soldiers who invaded her home in Guinea.

Next, at a meeting two weeks later, “she offered precise and powerful details about the number and nature of her attackers and the presence of her 2-year-old daughter at the assault scene, who, she said, was pulled from her arms and thrown to the ground,” said the motion, which referred to Ms. Diallo as the complainant.

“During both interviews, she identified certain visible scars on her person, which she claimed were sustained during the attack. On both occasions, the complainant recounted the rape with great emotion and conviction: she cried, spoke hesitatingly and appeared understandably distraught, and during the first interview, even laid her head face down on her arms on a table in front of her.”

The prosecution team pressed harder. She hired a new civil lawyer, Kenneth P. Thompson, who, prosecutors said, urged her to come clean.
“In subsequent interviews conducted on June 8, 2011, and June 9, 2011, the complainant admitted to prosecutors that she had entirely fabricated this attack,” the prosecutors stated.

Why had she told a false tale to the very prosecutors who begged her to be honest with them?

Initially, Ms. Diallo said she had included the gang rape in her asylum application, and wanted to stick with her story.

“She also stated that at the time she told prosecutors this account, she was not under oath,” the prosecutors said.

Oh.

The investigation continued.

“When confronted with the fact that her written asylum application statement made no mention of the gang rape, she stated that she had fabricated the gang rape, as well as other details of her life in Guinea, in collaboration with an unnamed male with whom she consulted as she was preparing to seek asylum,” the court papers state. “She told prosecutors this man had given her a cassette tape that included an account of a fictional rape, which she had memorized. Ultimately, she told prosecutors she decided not to reference the rape in her written application.”

So the gang rape was not a piece of her history, not even a fictitious piece adopted for the sake of the asylum application. Whatever logic, if any, drove her to recount it to the district attorney’s staff, they could see it only as a stunning demonstration of her ability to weep over a sexual assault that had never taken place, and then to quickly pile another falsehood on top of it.

“Most significant is her ability to recount that fiction as fact with complete conviction,” the prosecutors wrote. Having been tricked by Ms. Diallo, none of the seasoned lawyers or investigators could ask a jury to convict Mr. Strauss-Kahn based on those very tools of dramatic persuasion. Her gang-rape performance, they wrote, was “fatal.”

Mr. Strauss-Kahn had been quickly arrested based on Ms. Diallo’s convincing report of a crime. In retrospect, it might have been better to slow down the proceedings, but Mr. Strauss-Kahn exercised his right to silence, so only Ms. Diallo’s version of events — and tests that showed his semen on her clothes — were available to the grand jury that indicted him.

More than most people, prosecutors and detectives know that nearly all of us dabble in tactical lying or selective truth-telling. When they’re doing their jobs right, as they did in this case, they cut through the underbrush to search for the core truth.

Sometimes, though, you just can’t get there from here.

E-mail: [email protected]

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 12:47 am
Quote:
Jerome Sainte-Marie, deputy director of the Paris-based opinion pollsters CSA, said the moral aspect of the case generally does not matter much to the French, but reckless behavior by a leader can be a problem. However brilliant Strauss-Kahn may be, the French are not prepared to accept someone who cannot control himself or puts his personal appetite before affairs of state, Sainte-Marie said.

"French people don't care about the sex or love lives of their politicians," he said. "What does matter is a lack of credibility, a lack of seriousness, particularly at a time of financial storms."

Many English-speaking journalists in Paris have been repeatedly reminded of this cultural chasm in the last three months. Questioning friends over whether having a quick sexual encounter with a stranger before dashing for lunch with your daughter and a flight home to your wife is behavior worthy of a future president risks the dry reprimand: "That's the difference between you puritanical Anglo-Saxons and we French.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fg-france-strauss-kahn-20110824,0,3146903.story?track=rss

Up in the air still is where DSK stands with the French, I am still betting that he will return a martyr....Already Tristane and her mother both have their panties in a twist over the recent turn of events, which smacks of desperation or attention, I think they get ignored from here so long as the french justice system does not pursue charges.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Aug, 2011 12:53 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

With this kind of material in the puble record she and her lawyers are not going to get a dime out of DSK no matter where a civil trial might be held.

Now the interesting question is when are her lawyers going to stop throwing good money after bad in this case trying to pursue a civil case and pack their tents?

Alan Dershowitz doesn't agree with you. This is what Dershowitz said in an interview Hawkeye posted on the previous page of this thread.
Quote:

What are the chances of success of the civil action brought by counsel for the complainant?

Pretty good, especially since it will be before a court in the Bronx where the jury will not be very favorable to DSK and will have more sympathy for the alleged victim. Which would be very embarrassing if it wins the Kenneth Thompson civil remedy and that the jury decided unanimously that there has been rape. The standard of proof is different. What will make a big difference is that it is then a matter of money and not go to jail.
http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-politique/monde/interview/0201584656127-alan-dershowitz-dsk-a-obtenu-une-sorte-de-traitement-special-209379.php

The purpose of the civil suit, certainly now, is to prove he sexually assaulted her, and perhaps get a public apology from him, in addition to any monetary awards.

According to Dershowitz, any settlement money he might give her, even discreetly, would be seen as an admission of guilt on his part.

It could be years before this civil suit goes anywhere.

Why do you care what Kenneth Thompson chooses to do with his time? He's an extremely successful lawyer, he doesn't need advice from you.
0 Replies
 
 

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