9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 09:50 am
just as an aside, and in my humble opinion, there should be no such thing as diplomatic immunity
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:01 am
@firefly,
Quote:
You don't know what happened in that hotel suite.
Exactly my point, we dont know what happened so we dont know that anything bad on the part of DSK happened, neither legally bad nor morally bad.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:11 am
Quote:
Whether or not it was appropriate, this case spells the end of Vance's still-young political career. In an editorial on Saturday, the New York Daily News wrote that Vance's "credibility is on the line" now that his office has publicly reversed course about the strength of its case against Strauss-Kahn. That piece, along with many others, points out the string of defeats Vance's office has suffered recently, including the acquittal of two New York City police officers on rape charges and more acquittals in prosecutions against construction supervisors at the former Deutsche Bank building, where two firefighters died in a blaze in 2007. The New York Post also took a swipe at Vance's future, comparing him to his predecessor in a scathing story on Saturday. "One thing is becoming increasingly -- and painfully -- obvious: Cy Vance is no Bob Morgenthau." And The Times noted that "Several [prosecutors] said they worried that cases were often pursued with an excessive focus on whether they would generate publicity. Some said Mr. Vance had taken away the discretion of midlevel prosecutors, sometimes to the detriment of cases." In his column for Scripps Howard News Service, Dan Thomasson made the point that the Strauss-Kahn prosecution actually damaged the reputation of U.S. justice worldwide

http://news.yahoo.com/strauss-kahn-case-means-manhattan-da-cyrus-vance-151726626.html
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:14 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
In his column for Scripps Howard News Service, Dan Thomasson made the point that the Strauss-Kahn prosecution actually damaged the reputation of U.S. justice worldwide


who cares what anyone outside of the US feels about the US justice system

**** 'em
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:16 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Exactly my point, we dont know what happened so we dont know that anything bad on the part of DSK happened, neither legally bad nor morally bad.

Nor do you know that the maid did anything morally or legally wrong in reporting that she was sexually assaulted by DSK--her account of being sexually assaulted by him might be entirely truthful.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:29 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Nor do you know that the maid did anything morally or legally wrong in reporting that she was sexually assaulted by DSK--her account of being sexually assaulted by him might be entirely truthful.
and the state, being unable to determine the facts, should depart the scene, Vance now refusing to drop the charges is an act of injustice.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:31 am
@djjd62,
Quote:
who cares what anyone outside of the US feels about the US justice system
The was certainly George Bush's approach....I cant say that it worked out all that great for us.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:35 am
@hawkeye10,
i've never once thought that Guantanamo Bay had anything to do with US justice, i can tell the difference between things you see, it was at worst a military jurisdiction, at best a fucked up military jurisdiction, nothing to do with day to day justice at all, and i'm of the world, ie, not an american
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:37 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Vance now refusing to drop the charges is an act of injustice.


Vivian?

i assumed she was dead
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:59 am
@djjd62,
I think that there are many Americans who care deeply about what the world thinks of their justice system.

Quite dramatic and extraordinary scenes are taking place here concerning our image. As a result of some idiot appointing a mad woman to take charge of an important newspaper.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:10 am
@spendius,
Don't blame it all on Rebekah Brooks/Wade. It all goes back to Murdoch. I think she's more evil than mad.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:11 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Whether or not it was appropriate, this case spells the end of Vance's still-young political career.

Who cares whether this case ends Vance's political career?

His term of office doesn't end until 2013. The Manhattan D.A.'s office handles 100,000+ cases a year and, as Elliot Spitzer, the former governor of NY, pointed out, a lot of other cases, including other high profile cases will be prosecuted during those two years, and this one will fade from memory.

Why are you so interested in Manhattan politics?

It's up to the voters in the borough of Manhattan to decide who they want as D.A.in 2013, and many feel that Vance has acted admirably in both arresting DSK, on the basis of what appeared to be a "highly credible" report of a crime, and in disclosing problems with the complainant's credibility as soon as they became apparent. It seems he is doing exactly what a D.A. is supposed to do, for both victims and defendants, and he doesn't shy away from tackling tough cases. His highly regarded predecessor, Robert Morgenthau, made more than a few notorious mis-steps in his long tenure.

And Vance, in admitting DSK's accusor's credibility problems, has displayed more regard for truth and justice than is sometimes the case in the French criminal justice system. In that regard, Vance has certainly enhanced the image of the American justice process as being open and fair.
Quote:
This is not just another Franco-American quarrel — Washington and Paris have wisely kept out of the Strauss-Kahn affair, which is being handled by the New York State legal system. But the media and political treatment of Dominique Strauss-Kahn in the two countries does highlight profound differences in at least four areas: justice, gender relations, transparency and money.

Justice.
Probably because of their history, Americans have a different attitude toward violence than Europeans. We’ve always had trouble understanding the American infatuation with firearms, as well as the use of the death penalty.

Similarly, the public display of a defendant handcuffed — the famous “perp walk” between two policemen on the way to arraignment — which so profoundly shocked the French in the case of DSK, is a common accessory in American justice. For the French, whose procedures are based on the presumption of innocence, the U.S. legal system appears accusatory.

Similarly, the July 1 reversal, when the prosecutor himself acknowledged that the alleged victim lacks credibility, seems incredible to the French. That’s how prosecution works in the United States — it accuses, then investigates, and if the case falls apart during the investigation, the prosecutor says so, rather than going to trial.

By contrast, the infamous Outreau case involving false accusations of child abuse in France went much farther than the Strauss-Kahn affair. The prosecution did not reverse itself even when the main accuser, Myriam Badaoui, retracted her testimony. The accused were convicted, and were only exonerated on appeal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/opinion/06iht-edkauffmann06.html?ref=france


Vance has nothing to apologize for. In two years, and after about 200,000+ additional cases from this one, Manhattan voters can decide whether they want him back. It's entirely a local political matter.





spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:12 am
@izzythepush,
Out of control morelike.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:14 am
@spendius,
Why do you think Sky TV keeps sending Ross Kemp to places where he's likely to get his head blown off.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:14 am
@izzythepush,
good to put a name to the mad woman, i feared they'd brought margaret thatcher back from the dead Razz
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:16 am
@djjd62,
I'm not sure she was ever truly alive.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:18 am
@izzythepush,
when i heard she'd been invited to the royal wedding, i truly had one of those, "but surely she's been dead for years" moments
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:28 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Who cares whether this case ends Vance's political career?
I do, I want there to be a cost to those who treat the public as Vance has treated DSK....to discourage the practice.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:29 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
and the state, being unable to determine the facts, should depart the scene, Vance now refusing to drop the charges is an act of injustice.

The state still has evidence which they feel supports their contention of a forcible sexual assault by DSK--that is their determination of "the facts".

They may well have to drop the charges against DSK because their complaining witness has credibility problems in areas not directly related to the issue of the sexual assault, and that weakens their case at trial when she is cross-examined by the defense, but that doesn't mean they don't have evidence to support the charges against DSK, and, as long as they feel they have such evidence, they can take their time deciding what to do. There is no "injustice" going on--DSK has received due process every step of the way.
Quote:
I want there to be a cost to those who treat the public as Vance has treated DSK....to discourage the practice.

So, move to Manhattan, so you can vote in the next election for D.A.. It's a local political matter.
And, in terms of how Vance treats the public, Hawkeye, you seem to forget that "the public" includes those who report they have been the victims of crimes. In that regard, Vance has acted admirably by taking what he felt was "a highly credible account" of a crime very seriously and following it with an arrest. Thus far, they haven't entirely discounted that report of a crime, despite other problems with their witness.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:36 am
@djjd62,
I know, I felt the same for a bit, then I felt depressed.
0 Replies
 
 

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