9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 11:43 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Not allow him to get clothes from family so that he can look fresh for court (he has been wearing the same clothes for days)

not allow him to shave

Most likely not allow him to shower for days


Actually, by law, I do not think they can prevent him from doing those things once he is housed at Rikers Island. He was in a police precinct before being taken to Rikers, and I don't think the average person in NYC who has just been arrested, looks any better at their arraignment/bail hearing--precincts aren't meant to house people for very long. And his hearing had been delayed a day for the forensic medical examination. So, he should look better at his next court appearance, unless he chooses to look grubby to arouse public sympathy for himself. He is now in the custody of the NYC Department of Correction--inmates can definitely shower and shave. And he is in a cell all by himself, in protective housing, most likely in a medical unit, where they can keep him safe and away from other inmates. Apart from cramped quarters, and lousy food, boredom is probably the main burden of sitting in that cell.

I just cannot understand why you think this man deserves any different treatment than anyone else arrested in NYC for similar crimes. And, if he got special treatment, you'd probably be carrying on that that was unfair given the way the average person is handled within the criminal justice system.

Perhaps this is a good dose of reality for a powerful man who does not otherwise mix with the common folk.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:00 pm
@firefly,
Is it the comments of BillRM and Hawkeye that get you so unbalanced, FF, or is it just your nature?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:01 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Second the news also had reported claims that he had attack other women in the past at that hotel with as far I can tell there is zero foundation for

There isn't "zero foundation" for such claims. A French journalist has been publicly asserting for years that she was sexually attacked by him in 2002--and that info has been posted in this thread. Her mother, also a prominent member of the Socialist party, had dissuaded her from lodging a formal complaint--a decision the mother now says she regrets. The lawyer for that journalist now says she is going to lodge a criminal complaint against him in France.

His past assaultive actions toward women can become part of the legal case against him in NY if they show evidence of a similar pattern of criminal behavior. That French journalist could be called as a witness against him in NY if the judge agrees that such testimony is relevant in demonstrating such a pattern.

And, before you start harping that the woman's past behaviors can't be brought up, it is only her past sexual behaviors that would be considered off limits--her past sexual behaviors are irrelevant in considering whether he has violated the law in the present case--and he is the only one accused of violating the law. Other non-sexual past behaviors on her part can be brought up, and likely will be brought up, since his defense team will try to destroy her credibility.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:04 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I just cannot understand why you think this man deserves any different treatment than anyone else arrested in NYC for similar crimes
I just cannot understand why you think that the explanation of "we treat everyone like that" is going to sway me, given my oft mentioned contempt for the American "justice" system.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:08 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And, before you start harping that the woman's past behaviors can't be brought up, it is only her past sexual behaviors that would be considered off limits--her past sexual behaviors are irrelevant in considering whether he has violated the law in the present case--and he is the only one accused of violating the law. Other non-sexual past behaviors on her part can be brought up, and likely will be brought up, since his defense team will try to destroy her credibility.
And it is very clear over several threads and that run thousands of posts that no matter what level of injustice, unfairness, fantasy or stupidity is embraced by the law currently and is objected to that you will come back with "it is the LAW!"
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And it is very clear over several threads and that run thousands of posts that no matter what injustice, unfairness, fantasy or stupidity that is embraced by the law currently you will come back with "it is the LAW!"

The laws under which Strauss-Kahn is charged reflect neither "injustice, unfairness, fantasy or stupidity"--they very clearly describe the assaultive behaviors that constitute violations of those laws. And, in the criminal complaint against him, the police describe the exact behaviors of Strauss-Kahn which match those violations specified in the laws.

As long as laws are on the books, the state has a legitimate right to enforce those laws. Strauss-Kahn is charged with violating laws which are generally agreed to be necessary and valid. I have heard no one, including you, suggesting that we repeal the laws against forcible, non consensual sexual assaults.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 12:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
As long as laws are on the books, the state has a legitimate right to enforce those laws. Strauss-Kahn is charged with violating laws which are generally agreed to be necessary and valid. I have heard no one, including you, suggesting that we repeal the laws against forcible, non consensual sexual assaults.
You have heard me object to

1) perp walks

2) barbaric treatment of the accused

3) members of the "justice" system putting into public prejudicial soundbites against the accused

4) the enshrined into law assumption that the alleged victim is telling the truth

5) charge shopping, loading up on charges, and other injust means to get over on the defendant on plea bargianing

6) the writting of sex law that is divorced from the standard of the rest of law, to the point that now those accused of sex crimes are often guilty until proven innocent as lack of consent is assume and must be proven to be not what happened

7) the extreme punitive stance of American law

8) the practice of writing law vaguely to give prosecutors max leverage over the citizens

9) the extensive criminalization of American life, with my particular interest in the recent massive criminalization of and regulation of our erotic lives.

10) That no matter what the alleged problem is the response of America is to write a new law, or make a old law more harsh, the rights of the citizen be damned.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 01:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
barbaric treatment of the accused

Strauss-Kahn is not being subjected to "barbaric" treatment.

Adjective: barbaric baa(r)'ber-ik [N. Amer], baa(r)'ba-rik [Brit]
1.Without civilizing influences

So, he was photographed in handcuffs--when he was in handcuffs. And it is standard procedure in NYC to transport all accused criminals in custody in handcuffs (to assure the safety of the police and public and to help prevent escape)--it is not "barbaric treatment". Photos--even in a "perp walk"--help to show that nothing is being hidden--i.e. he is in custody, he is being treated like everyone else, etc.--our journalists, apparently unlike those in France, do not conspire to keep things hidden from the public when they involve politically powerful figures, or anyone else.

And he will not receive "barbaric treatment" on Rikers Island. He is housed in a cell by himself, in protective custody, likely in a medical unit, where he will be safely apart from other inmates. He can shave and shower, he can have some personal possessions with him, he will have nutritionally adequate food, he can make phone calls, he can have visitors, he can meet with his lawyers, he can read the daily newspaper and any other reading material, he will receive all necessary medical care, and he can do everything else that every other detainee in protective custody at Rikers Island can do. It's spartan and boring, but far from "barbaric". Most of the people on Rikers Island, just like Strauss-Kahn, are people who are awaiting trial--Rikers is a jail, not a prison, and it's a very well run jail.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 01:48 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Rikers is a jail, not a prison, and it's a very well run jail.


Riighttt...
Quote:
04/12/2011 11:24 PM
Rikers Island is a part of the city that few New Yorkers see, and few even think about. Rikers, located just a few hundred feet from the runways at LaGuardia Airport, is a 400-acre city-within-a-city.


But out of sight is not out of mind, and a wave of startlingly bad news has been buffeting the city's Corrections Department lately. City statistics revealed double-digit percentage increases last year in fights, stabbings and slashing by inmates, and newspaper reports suggest that gang members still in custody may be using beatings and death threats to silence witnesses.
In an exclusive interview, city’s Corrections commissioner Dora Schriro told NY1 that the department is determined to rescue its reputation and is making progress at keeping order in the jails.

“We are aggressively pursuing the arrest of anyone who violates the law, and so whether it’s an inmate or visitor or in the rare occasion that it may be an officer, that we are vigorously enforcing the law,” said Schriro.

Beyond the issues of jailhouse violence, the Corrections Department is coping with tight budgets at a time when many jail buildings are old, crumbling and obviously in need of repair.
http://statenisland.ny1.com/content/news_beats/politics/137295/ny1-exclusive--city-corrections-commissioner-discusses-rikers-island-safety

Why do you go to such outrageous lengths to play up America's "justice" system? You wouldn't happen to be on the payroll would you?
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 01:52 pm
the ron and fez show wee coming up with better headlines than the post yesterday, some funny stuff, my faves

French Toast

Rapey le Pew

The Rape of Kahn

firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Jails house violent criminals, so you are surprised that violence occurs within their walls? Rolling Eyes

Meanwhile, Strauss-Kahn is housed in protective housing, in a cell all by himself, separated from other inmates. He will remain in his cell 23 hours a day. When out of his cell for an hour a day, for some exercise, he will probably not be allowed in the vicinity of any other inmates, and he will have a correction officer observing him. If he has to be moved from his cell to another area of the building, for a visit with his lawyer, or for any other reason, he will be escorted by a correction office for his protection.
He is probably a lot safer in Rikers Island than he would be on a NYC subway.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:18 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
how could anyone give any credence to a person of so called "high standing", i would never give them the benefit of the doubt, the man is a banker and politician, he should get the death penalty, just for those crimes alone


So we should go back to a trade/barter society?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:20 pm
@firefly,
firefly said

our journalists, apparently unlike those in France, do not conspire to keep things hidden from the public when they involve politically powerful figures, or anyone else.

You're not being fair here. This is not about keeping details of politically poweerful figures hidden, this is about the right to a fair trial. In France you don't show photographs of anyone, pretrial, in handcuffs, not just the rich and powerful, because it could prejudice the right to a fair trial. You see someone being treated like a criminal, then they must be a criminal, and until they've been found guilty by a jury they're not a criminal, they're accused. After they've been found guilty you can show as many pictures of them in handcuffs as you want.

In the UK we have very strict rules on sub judice, quite often in cases like this, reporting bans are thrown over the whole proceedings. This is nothing to do with hiding people away, but ensuring a jury is guided by evidence and not what tittle tattle they may have read in a newspaper. As stuff comes out in court, it's usually, but not always, allowed to be reported on. Once a verdict has been reached all reporting restrictions are lifted.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:23 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
People tend to forget that ALL hotels, especially expensive ones, have hidden cameras so it is likely based on the camera evidence that the police are after the IMF banker. Of course, the hotel wouldn't want to publicize this. How do you think all those celebrity hotel scandals got started?


Hidden cameras in non-public areas?

A good why of getting your business ruin and a hell of a law suit and criminal charges up to child porn if someone on those cameras happen to be below the age of 18.

So all in all nonsense.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:25 pm
@firefly,
Looking at the "justice" system from a different angle than I have been in the sex law threads but arriving at the same conclusions

By Dahlia Lithwick
Posted Monday, May 16, 2011
Quote:
It's hard, nowadays, to begrudge anyone his or her constitutional nihilism. Even before oral arguments started last week over the constitutionality of President Obama's health care reform law at the federal appeals court in Richmond, Va., some conservatives were complaining that the result was preordained because the three-judge panel consisted of two Obama appointees and a Clinton appointee. And if liberals want to get a head start on their own freak-outs over the lawsuits, they might well note that the just-announced panel for the June 1 hearings on the Affordable Care Act at the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati include a George W. Bush appointee, a Reagan appointee, and a Carter appointee.

So we can already start writing that 2-1 decision.
It's not necessarily illogical to make jurisprudential predictions based on judicial politics when it comes to the health reform appeals. The results in every one of the cases about the law have, thus far, perfectly tracked ideology. Three lower courts have upheld the law as constitutionally valid, while two have struck down all or parts of it. No judge appointed by a Democratic president has had a problem with it, while no Republican appointee has voted to uphold it. Based on the recent 4th Circuit hearing, that pattern looks likely to hold, at least in the near term. If there is an enduring political lesson to be learned from all this, it's that Congress should fight over judicial appointments from now until forever.
.
.
.
Waldron's argument against judicial review should rise or fall on its merits, not your view of the constitutionality of the ACA. We are in a strange holding pattern right now, collectively waiting for the first judge to cross party lines in a health care case. Maybe once that happens, we can all go back to believing in the integrity and infallibility of the judicial branch. Until then, perhaps it's an apt moment to re-examine first principles and think about why we believe in the judicial branch in the first place

http://www.slate.com/id/2293875


Feminist theory in the law is not much disputed by the left or the right, but we see in sex law the same blind allegiance to ideology as we see in the constitution question of Obamacare. With sex law it is the rights of the citizens, it is the principle of freedom of the individual from the control of institutions that gets stepped upon in the rush to try the feminist experiment of creating a better human through force and brainwashing.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:31 pm
@djjd62,
http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/filestorage/dominique-strauss-kahn-imf-somewhat-topical-ecards-someecards.png
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:38 pm
@firefly,
You Know Firefly dream had come true in New York in that the word of any woman can placed any man in jail until and if he can prove without question that he is innocent.

Seem like the EU nations would be wise to issue a travelers warning concerning New York State.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:39 pm
@firefly,
So labeling the males of a whole nation as sex criminals is now PC in the Feminist community how interesting.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:41 pm
@firefly,
Let's pretend to be shocked that the American Puritans do not approve of the ways of the Continent. What should be shocking to all however is just how little allegiance to justice modern Americans feel, as demonstrated by our deeply dysfunctional and abusive "justice" system.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2011 02:57 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
-our journalists, apparently unlike those in France, do not conspire to keep things hidden from the public when they involve politically powerful figures,


This is an amazing quote, and one that is really quite telling, FF.

Editors were quoted as telling their reporters during the Reagan years to lay off, because we don't want another Watergate.

Do you actually believe that US reporters told all of the Reagan administrations' numerous war crimes, illegal dealings, drug running, ...?

9-11 Commissioners state that the investigation was a farce, that from the outset, they knew that Bush and Cheney were lying. Did that get the full coverage it deserved?

God, there are so many instances of the US media shutting up and as bad, actually lying to cover for high government officials.

This goes way beyond naive.




 

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