9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 10:30 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Here is a high power lawyer saying the same thing I neen saying this case will not go to trial for the very reasons I already gave.

He may be saying that it will end in a settlement, but he's not saying it for the same reasons you have given.
Your reasons have revolved around the hotel maid lying about a sexual assault and then blackmailing DSK for money in order to agree not to testify against him. That's not what Dershowitz is saying.

Sure the maid might want a "big payday", given the life-upending situation she has now found herself in, the implicit and expected threats by the defense to destroy her good name, and possibly her child's life as well, with a smear campaign, on top of her very possibly having been sexually assaulted by DSK. If she forgoes the opportunity to tell the world what he did to her in that hotel suite at a criminal trial, and thereby helps him to avoid legal punishment for his acts, why shouldn't she expect a big payday? Why shouldn't she be compensated for the life-altering damages done to her by his actions? None of this means that seeking money was the reason she reported her assault to the police. And, if her account of that assault wasn't very credible, and backed up by forensic evidence, it wouldn't be worth the several million dollars that Dershowitz thinks she might receive in a pre-trial civil settlement. Dershowitz's reasoning is really based on the assumption that this woman poses a very definite credible threat to DSK, a threat which might not be neutralized at trial, even with intense cross-examination by a pro like Brafman. DSK and his defense team need her to go away, no matter what it costs them, if they can pull that off.

If you have followed Dershowitz's comments on this case from the outset, you would know that he has said all along that the situation looks very bad for DSK. Dershowitz does not feel that this is an easily winnable case for the defense. And that's the primary reason he thinks this will end in a settlement, even if it costs DSK several million dollars, because DSK needs this witness to go away to avoid the possibility of his spending the next several years in jail.

Dershowitz rightly points out that the first defense offered for DSK was that he had an alibi--that he wasn't even in the suite at the time the maid alleged. When that lie fell apart, and it was clear that the state had forensic evidence, he had to admit to sexual contact with a claim that it was "not forcible". But Dershowitz clearly feels that trying to convince a jury that this sexual contact, with a stranger who had entered his room believing it to be unoccupied, suddenly somehow became consensual sex, would be a very hard sell to a jury--and it would likely involve putting DSK on the stand and exposing him to cross-examination about his past sexual encounters, or having his account of what went on in the hotel suite appear considerably less credible than the maid's version, something no defense attorney would want to do.

Dershowitz also correctly points out that the D.A. does not want a settlement in this case, the D.A. wants a conviction. So, any moves toward a civil suit, which would help to damage the prosecution's case, would meet with resistance from the D.A. who might then contend this was "obstruction of justice", which would be a serious crime for the attorneys involved. Getting around this issue is not all that easy, and Dershowitz clearly acknowledges that. He said:
Quote:
The problem is the high-wire dance is going to be very hard to orchestrate here. Because nobody can say: “I will give you a million dollars, $2 million, $3 million, and you have to not testify.” That’s obstruction of justice, that’s a crime.


Consider, again, what Dershowitz is saying. He's really saying, if he were the defense, he wouldn't want to take this case to trial--he'd make a deal, if he could. That's consistent with his previously stated view that things look very bad for DSK in terms of a possible conviction.

Quote:
What do you think about the Strauss-Kahn case so far?

This case is going to be resolved outside the courtroom. There are three distinctive parties in this case, all of whom have different interests. There is the prosecution, Cy Vance; he wants to go to trial and he wants to get a conviction. Clearly the defendant wants to avoid trial and wants to see if he can work out a deal that’s acceptable to him. And my sense is that the victim would like a big payday. Why does she want to make a deal now? Why not wait until the conviction, and then sue? [Because] the defendant doesn’t have much money. All the money is his wife’s money. And if you win a suit—let’s assume she wins a $10 million judgment against him. She’s not going to collect it. He’ll go bankrupt. Whereas if she settles the case, the wife pays up...
The problem is the high-wire dance is going to be very hard to orchestrate here. Because nobody can say: “I will give you a million dollars, $2 million, $3 million, and you have to not testify.” That’s obstruction of justice, that’s a crime. So the request essentially has to come from the victim.... [The defense lawyer]... needs somebody who will understand that he can’t ask for something that he wants. And what he wants is for this witness to go away.

What would you suggest if you were on the defense team?

Make a deal. Other than that, they have to come up with a consistent defense. I think their big mistake is they first suggested that maybe he had an alibi [but] the timeline didn’t work. Then he said it was consensual. So they have to come up with a consistent, coherent defense theory that explains to the jury why this woman would have consented to having a sexual encounter with a much older man. And if he makes the consent defense, he almost certainly will have to testify. And if he testifies, he can then be asked about his prior encounters.

Say he gets convicted. What’s he looking at in terms of time?

A couple years in a very un-nice place. He’d have been much better off doing this in the District of Columbia.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/06/12/alan-dershowitz-why-dsk-will-settle.html


So, while you and Dershowitz might both think this case might end in a settlement, your reasons for saying that seem to be quite dissimilar. He thinks DSK has gotten himself into a great deal of legal trouble, but, armed with his wife's money, he may be able to buy his way out of the possibility he'll be cooling his heels in a prison cell for the next several years.






firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 10:57 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Where? When? I don't recall posting on any rape thread. I have no interest in that sort of thing.

Quote:
So one giant slanderous lie about me plus an admission that you haven't read the thread with any sort of care and attention...

I was mistaken that you were posting in the rape thread, although I hardly think it's a "slanderous" to say that someone posted in that thread. Do you consider that the others, like Hawkeye and BillRM and Ionus, who do post in that rape thread, or the content of what they post, is so highly offensive and disreputable that to be associated with it in any way is "slanderous" to you?
I no longer look at the rape thread very often at all, and, when I do, I don't give it much attention. But, since you and Hawkeye and BillRM can banter about the same issues here, you don't really have to join them in that other thread. Sorry, if I was mistaken about your joining them in the other thread.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:01 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Your reasons have revolved around the hotel maid lying about a sexual assault and then blackmailing DSK for money in order to agree not to testify against him. That's not what Dershowitz is saying.


The same $$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$ his guess being 3 millions dollars not bad for a claimed minute of so blow job!!!!!!!!!!

Her good name what a joke the only person who good name is being ruin is DSK as most people unless they work at it does not even know her name.

Only in American................


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:20 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Here is a high power lawyer saying the same thing I neen saying this case will not go to trial for the very reasons I already gave.


errr no, Dershowitz thinks it should not go to trial for pretty much the opposite of the reasons you've suggested. In other pieces I've read about/by Dershowitz, he suggests everyone except the general public will get pooched if this goes to trial. DSK goes to jail, the maid gets no money.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:22 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Incorrect. The warning was not about flirting.

Try watching it again.
So you are hanging you hat on the rantings of Frances version of Gilbert Gottfried.....great.


No, he's not a Gilbert Gottfried style stand-up. He's a political satirist along the lines of Jon Stewart/Bill Maher.

and ... not hanging my hat on it ... just finding it interesting that something like that did not result in a civil suit by DSK against Guillon.

Or at least a demand to have it removed from the airwaves/internet.

No lawsuit, and the evidence that DSK's foibles were public knowledge several years ago remains.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:30 am
@firefly,
Quote:
If she forgoes the opportunity to tell the world what he did to her in that hotel suite at a criminal trial, and thereby helps him to avoid legal punishment for his acts, why shouldn't she expect a big payday?


Wait a minute ff. Who says he did anything to her? He is accused of having done. He has denied it in open court. So, as far as we know now, she would be getting a "big pay-day" for having made the accusation and being believed by parties which, at the very least, have a "big pay-day" coming themselves for so believing.

There is no question of any punishment at this stage but many of us experienced men know what an evocative and exciting word it is for some people to write and think about.

Quote:
Why shouldn't she be compensated for the life-altering damages done to her by his actions?


How can you write such lines? What life altering damages done to her? If he didn't do anything illegal, as I have no doubt he will maintain, any damage is inflicted on her by herself and those who have jumped aboard the gravy train enfolded in her skirts. Which includes the editors of those front pages you showed us. Your male supporters on this thread should note well that sentence and ask themselves some questions.

To write such a sentence, which would be illigal here in the UK, you must have no comprehension of what some of have been saying since that first court appearance. What about the damage inflicted on him and the IMF at such a critical juncture in its history if the accusations turn out to be no more trustworthy than those of the Salem accusers. Then she gets nothing under English law because, as I understand it, a person cannot profit from a crime and false accusations are a crime no matter how leniently they might be treated by the courts.

You are prejudging the case hook, line and sinker and I am not. And that sentence proves it. You have a good reason I know. I have indicated it. You like using the terms of the bodice ripping genre, albeit at a simple and repetitive level, and you don't wish to engage with the only subject of real interest as things are now: namely what we are learning about the direction of public opinion and from whom. And in the service of what ideal? Purity for men. Ultimately segregation of the sexes. We shall retire to the peaceful monastic cloisters. Some will already be making shifts in that direction I should think. We have the sexual relief remedy ready to hand and according to Kinsey it is a lot more popular than it is considered polite to mention. And we can spend our earnings on ourselves and avoid having to put up with either an incessant wittering or an imitation of a chain saw. There are other benefits too.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:33 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
DSK goes to jail, the maid gets no money.


DSK may or may no go to jail but the maid had lost her $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for sure.

As with the Kobe case when the state join the blackmailer it is far safer to roll over and pay.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:36 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
What about the damage inflicted on him and the IMF at such a critical juncture in its history


he was leaving in a couple of months anyway, so it didn't do anything to the IMF
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:38 am
@ehBeth,
Oh is that for sure or just the rumors??!!!!????

Second an orderly leave taking is far better then a free for all power struggle in the middle of a number of international crisis.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:42 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Her good name what a joke the only person who good name is being ruin is DSK as most people unless they work at it does not even know her name.

Because you consider her a "nobody" does not mean that her good name, and her reputation, are not very important to her, and her child--as those things are to most people.
DSK's good name (if he even had one, in terms of his treatment of women), has very possibly been ruined by his own behavior in that hotel suite.
Quote:
The same $$$$$$$ and more $$$$$$$ his guess being 3 millions dollars not bad for a claimed minute of so blow job!!!!!!!!!!

So, you would have been willing to let DSK force a blow job on you, and have him forcibly try to rape you anally, and then have the whole world know about these these things, and wonder if you were lying, in exchange for $3 million? Well, everyone has their price, BillRM, don't they, and now we know yours. You'll apparently do just about anything for money, but that doesn't mean that hotel maid is anything like you. DSK may have gotten her involved in a nightmare she just wants to see come to an end, and she now has an attorney who will make sure DSK pays substantially and financially for that nightmare, which is what civil suits are all about--punitive damages.

Meanwhile, Dershowitz is clearly saying he wouldn't want to take this case to trial if he were the defense--he really doesn't think the defense can come up with a consistent credible version of a consenual encounter, particularly since their first remarks, about DSK having an alibi, proved to be a lie, and they can't risk DSK being discredted on the witness stand, or exposing him to cross-examination about his past behaviors with women. Dershowitz is not, at all, implying that the maid is lying--in fact, it would be her very credibility that would make her silence worth several million dollars to DSK.

It still remains to be seen how this will play out and whether it will be settled with a civil suit, a plea bargain, or a trial.

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:45 am
@firefly,
Quote:
I was mistaken that you were posting in the rape thread, although I hardly think it's a "slanderous" to say that someone posted in that thread.


Yes you were mistaken. And I said nothing about "someone". You said I posted on it. That was a lie. Perhaps you are mistaken about other matters. I shouldn't be in the least surprised.

I have no views about what hawk or Bill or Io post on any thread I don't participate in. What makes you think I might have?

Have you not noticed yet that you are not the only one who avoids commenting on what I have said about Professor Greer's ideas about all men being rapists for the reasons I have given? It is obvious that my position is not associated fully with their's. They might have grits for breakfast as I do. The fact that we don't necessarily believe the accusations against DSK is not something which links just us four together. Many more don't believe them at this stage. I bet you couldn't get Mr Obama to say he does.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:55 am
@BillRM,
his term was set to expire in October 2012 but ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/02/04/us-france-strausskahn-idUSTRE6132OR20100204



Quote:
Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the French politician who heads the International Monetary Fund, said on Thursday he might cut short his mandate, stoking speculation that he wants to run in France's 2012 presidential election.

His term as managing director of the IMF expires in October 2012, several months after the election, which means the Socialist veteran would have to quit ahead of time if he wanted to challenge President Nicolas Sarkozy at the ballot box.

Strauss-Kahn usually sidesteps the issue but in a radio interview on Thursday, asked specifically about politics, he said he could imagine a scenario in which he left the IMF early.




we'll go with your angle then

he suggested it in February 2010, but he was just spreading a rumour about himself

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:00 pm
@ehBeth,
Here we go again--

Quote:
if this goes to trial. DSK goes to jail,


That's obviously a pre-trial guilty verdict from Beth.

Is the lady allowed to leave the USA?

Quote:
IMF Concludes Staff Visit to Guinea-Bissau

BISSAU, Guinea Bissau, June 10, 2011/African Press Organization (APO)/ — An International Monetary Fund (IMF) mission led by Mr. Paulo Drummond visited Bissau June 6–10, 2011. The mission met with President Malam Bacaí Sanhá, Prime Minister Carlos Gomes Junior, Minister of Finance José Mario Vaz, Minister of Public Services Fernando Gomes, other government ministers and representatives of the private sector, the donor community, and other development partners.

At the conclusion of the visit, the mission issued the following statement:

“The near term economic growth outlook remains generally positive. The economy is benefitting from a good cashew harvest and high prices for cashew exports, and real GDP growth is projected at 4.3 percent in 2011. Although prices for imported fuel and food have risen, core inflation remained subdued, and headline inflation should come back within the West African Economic and Monetary Union (WAEMU) target range in 2012 once the one-off effect of rising import prices subsides.

“Performance under the Fund-supported program has been broadly satisfactory, and economic reforms have advanced as expected. Strong fiscal revenues should help the government restore its investments and other priority spending while keeping domestic financing of the budget within agreed limits. In the second half of the year, it will be critical that the authorities contain spending within available resources and sustain efforts to raise government’s own revenue.

“The authorities are advancing in completing the remaining debt relief process. Following the recent agreement with Paris Club creditors, the authorities are moving to finalize the relevant bilateral agreements and reaching out to non-Paris Club creditors seeking comparable treatment.

“An IMF mission will return to Bissau later in the year to evaluate performance under the ECF through the first half of the year and to agree with the authorities on the budget and other macroeconomic policies for 2012. Mr. Alfredo Torrez, the new IMF Resident Representative in Guinea-Bissau, will ensure our continued presence on the ground.

“The IMF Executive Board completed on May 24 the second review under Guinea-Bissau’s Extended Credit Facility (ECF)1 arrangement. The Board’s decision enabled the authorities to draw an additional SDR 2.414 million (about US$ 3.85 million), bringing total disbursements under the arrangement to an amount equivalent to SDR 12.709 million (about US$ 20.27 million).”

1 The ECF is a concessional IMF facility for low-income countries. ECF-supported programs are based on country-owned poverty reduction strategies adopted in a participatory process involving civil society and development partners and articulated in the country’s Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper. ECF loans carry a zero interest rate until end-2011 and an annual interest rate of no more than 0.5 percent thereafter. The loans are repayable over 10 years with a 5½ -year grace period on principal payments.

SOURCE

International Monetary Fund (IMF)


And DSK was managing that plus relations with nearly 200 countries in terms of getting funds and disbursing them. Most of them probably presenting considerably more difficult problems than Guinea.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:02 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Here we go again--

Quote:
if this goes to trial. DSK goes to jail,


That's obviously a pre-trial guilty verdict from Beth.


nice effort by an old man, but your goofy edit doesn't pass Go.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:08 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Wait a minute ff. Who says he did anything to her?

The state of New York.

Quote:
So, as far as we know now, she would be getting a "big pay-day" for having made the accusation and being believed by parties which, at the very least, have a "big pay-day" coming themselves for so believing.

Her ability to get a "big pay day" from a civil suit hinges on the very strong possibly that a jury would believe her testimony at trial--and the jury has no vested financial interest in this case.

Quote:
a person cannot profit from a crime and false accusations are a crime..

There is no evidence that her report was fabricated, and DSK's accuser is now the state of New York. Even if the state cannot convince a jury at trial of DSK's guilt, that simply means the defense raised enough reasonable doubt, not that the accusations were deliberately false, or at all false. He's admitting to sexual contact, the main issue is whether it was forced, and the state believes it was. In a civil suit which went to verdict, the matter would also be decided by a judge or jury on the basis of witness testimony and forensic evidence.
She can wait until the conclusion of the criminal case before filing a civil suit, all Dershowitz is saying is that she might have a hard time collecting her money if she does that. That gives her attorney a lot of reasons, including his own pay-off, to press her to file a civil suit sooner rather than later. But no one knows how the woman herself feels about all of this.

This isn't a "bodice-ripper"--stop trying to romanticize it--it's a criminal case about forcible sexual assault of a stranger.
Quote:
Have you not noticed yet that you are not the only one who avoids commenting on what I have said about Professor Greer's ideas about all men being rapists for the reasons I have given?

Perhaps because no one but you may give a damn about what Greer thinks--I know I don't. So,I wouldn't be interested in your comments about her. And I find the entire issue irrelevant to DSK's legal case.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
So, you would have been willing to let DSK force a blow job on you, and have him forcibly try to rape you anally, and then have the whole world know about these these things, and wonder if you were lying, in exchange for $3 million? Well, everyone has their price, BillRM, don't they, and now we know yours. You'll apparently do just about anything for money, but that doesn't mean that hotel maid is anything like you. DSK may have gotten her involved in a nightmare she just wants to see come to an end, and she now has an attorney who will make sure DSK pays substantially and financially for that nightmare, which is what civil suits are all about--punitive damages.


Well it nice that you feel the need to add to it anally rape as even to you a blow job does not sound like it worth 3 millions.

And whatever I would be willing to do, I am betting the maid will be willing to take the money and go away.

So three millions or whatever it turn out to be will be her price.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Her ability to get a "big pay day" from a civil suit hinges on the very strong possibly that a jury would believe her testimony at trial--and the jury has no vested financial interest in this case.


Wrong she is unlikely to get a dime if this is not settle before a criminal trial let alone a civil one.

Her ability to get a big payday is for removing any threat that DSK might be found guilty at a criminal trial.

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:18 pm
@spendius,
If DSK refuses any pre-trial deals when it is probably possible to buy off the cleaning woman without him noticing the cost then he could look as if he has made a very positive declaration of his innocence. Not unlike that of Mike Tyson who refused a year off his sentence rather than admit his guilt. And like the man at Salem who was pressed to death for refusing to admit the accusations against him. Weight by weight.

Dershowitz is having it both ways. If the cleaning woman is bought off then that proves DSK is guilty. Poor old DSK--he can't clear his name. Even a not guilty verdict will be put down to Brafman's wizadry. Dershowitz can't go wrong. What a clever fellow. He can deal off the bottom of the deck.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:23 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
nice effort by an old man, but your goofy edit doesn't pass Go.


I liked it though.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:37 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Her ability to get a big payday is for removing any threat that DSK might be found guilty at a criminal trial.

You don't understand what Dershowitz is saying. He's not saying she couldn't get a huge monetary award as the result of a civil trial and verdict in her favor--and, in fact, such an award from a civil jury would almost be certain if DSK's convicted in a criminal trial--Dershowitz is just saying that it's harder to collect the money after a civil trial, just as O.J. has avoided paying the $32 million in damages he was ordered to pay in his civil case. So, a civil settlement, before a criminal trial, would put money immediately into her pocket, but, as Dershowitz admits, that sort of settlement is not that easy to work out because of "obstruction of justice" issues.

What may insure her of a "big payday" is the fact that she might be much more credible than DSK, or his defense, in front of both criminal and civil juries. In other words, if she is telling the truth, and he isn't, and juries see it that way, her silence is worth millions to DSK.

Dershowitz clearly wouldn't want to take this case to trial. He doesn't see a strong defense for DSK, that's why he would want a deal.
Quote:
Well it nice that you feel the need to add to it anally rape as even to you a blow job does not sound like it worth 3 millions.

No, I added that because you left out the fact DSK is also charged with attempted rape--and, with another man, that would be anal rape.

 

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