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Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 01:54 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
It was published in a book that pre-dated the current allegations, but I made clear in my post that these are allegations, not facts.


Well why do you keep going over these allegations time after time? That you, and others, do so, concientiously, is not an allegation: it's a fact.

Everybody knows the trick of continually repeating allegations whilst reminding them that they are only allegations.

Our whole legal system is constructed around the dangers of allegations. DSK has made an allegation. It is that he is innocent. And he made it in open court with his name on it. And he was a man the whole world trusted with the management of the International Monetary Fund and before that with a range of responsible jobs.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 01:55 pm
@BillRM,
But equally, your earlier comments about the maid's plans to extort money from DSK are unfounded. That certainly did not stop you (or to be honest, many others) from speculating.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 01:58 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Well why do you keep going over these allegations time after time? That you, and others, do so, concientiously, is not an allegation: it's a fact.

Because this is the Internet and when Hawk opened this thread he invited us to speculate. There have certainly been unsubstantiated comments about DSK, the alleged victim, previous alleged victims, other posters, you and me on this thread. Why so squeamish now?
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 02:13 pm
@engineer,
The small CBC radio feature I linked to yesterday had some folks who were willing to speak publicly about DSK and women. It was an interesting listen.

I think the clip (linked toward the beginning of the thread) from 2009 by the French comedian Stephane Guillon doing a "bit" re women warning women about DSK is most telling by its continuing existence.

Journalists apparently wouldn't cover the story, but entertainers did.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 02:21 pm
@engineer,
Oh--I'm not squeamish. Don't worry about that. I post fully aware of the squeamishness of others.

Was it squeamish of me to lay the sole responsibility for the financial crisis, which has and is causing so much pain and anguish, at the door of this Media which is now using this incident to parade its righteousness, compassion and concern and deflect attention from itself. And it will do it again while you are all intoxicated by an alleged bodice ripping incident in one tiny hotel room.

Was it squemish of me to agree with Professor Greer that all sex with artificial birth control and abortion as a parachute is rape. Real rape I mean. Going all the way. A use of power to interfere with the female reproductive system. Was that squeamish.

Thumb that down and "know thyself". You should poach eggs the way Mrs Beaton said. See Dylan open that fridge door in Hearts of Fire and say "ya wanna some eggs?". And he said birth control is a man's job.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 02:22 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I think the clip (linked toward the beginning of the thread) from 2009 by the French comedian Stephane Guillon doing a "bit" re women warning women about DSK is most telling by its continuing existence.
The warning was the DSK would flirt, and try to bag them, it was never that DSK would try to rape them.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 02:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The warning was the DSK would flirt, and try to bag them, it was never that DSK would try to rape them.

DSK has been described by numerous people as being considerably more aggressive and harassing than simply being "a flirt". And that information has been posted repeatedly throughout this thread. Women described being afraid to be alone with him in closed places based on the sort of aggressive advances he had made toward them. And those were women he came into contact with socially, often other members of the Socialist party.

There were plenty of red flags about DSK's behavior. The French press simply ignored it or covered it up. It is not at all beyond the realm of possibility that he committed the crimes he is currently charged with.

DSK was in a closed French media circle which protected people like him from negative publicity and scandal. He also had PR working to enhance a positive image of himself.

Read this article...

Closed Circle of French Media and Politics
In the Court of DSK
By MARIE BÉNILDE
http://www.counterpunch.org/benilde06102011.html


hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 03:00 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
DSK was in a closed French media circle which protected people like him from negative publicity and scandal. He also had PR working to enhance a positive image of himself.
American Journalists and politicians are a closed circle as well, look back to the run up of the invasion of Iraq for illustration. You are as normal being dishonest, because it is well known that the French Journalists did not report on DSK's private life because the values of the society instructed them not to. His general love of sex with women and for affairs was widely reported upon, the French Journalists have nothing to be ashamed of, and so far as I can tell from opinion pieces in French Newspapers do not feel now that they did anything wrong.

Quote:
Women described being afraid to be alone with him in closed places based on the sort of aggressive advances he had made toward them.
Very typical feminist outlook here, condemning a man for how women feel, not for what he has actually done. And there was only a few accounts in this thread or any where about women who would not be around DSK, or who felt the need for a battle buddy. There are also accounts of how women enjoy toying with him, which runs completely counter to the claim that he was seen as a dangerous sexual preditor.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 03:30 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
DSK has been described by numerous people as being considerably more aggressive and harassing than simply being "a flirt".


People were hanged at Salem because numerous people said certain things about them. One man was pressed to death for maintaining his innocence of what these numerous people said.

I'm amazed that somebody who has told us to wait for the trial then goes and engages in this cheap, gossipy scuttlebuck.

Saves answering my last post I suppose. The hysterical outcry tells anybody who knows the function of a scapegoat all they need to know. And when you come up with that sort of tarring and feathering the outcry is screeching.

What difference does it make that unsubstianted and uncross-examined and often anonymously sourced "information" has been posted repeatedly on this thread? That's just Goebellism. Is the repetition all that is needed to establish credibility? What a silly argument that is. If I post that the grass is yellow all day long the grass becomes yellow.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 03:34 pm
@firefly,
Who is saying that it is "beyond the realm of possibility" that DSK is guilty? So why do you inform us of this?

My goodness ff--you are repetitive. Do you think anxiety is a cause of serious illnesses?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 03:45 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
But equally, your earlier comments about the maid's plans to extort money from DSK are unfounded. That certainly did not stop you (or to be honest, many others) from speculating.


Three lawyers being involved within days working for this "victim" is fact not theory.
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 03:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
The warning was the DSK would flirt, and try to bag them, it was never that DSK would try to rape them.


Incorrect. The warning was not about flirting.

Try watching it again.

Don't bother with Google translations. Watch and listen to the Guillon clip in its original form.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 04:20 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Three lawyers being involved within days working for this "victim" is fact not theory.

It is also a fact that DSK has been publicly accused of attempted rape by a woman who was 19 at the time and of rape of a Mexican maid in a "tell all" novel. You choose to extrapolate one way, I choose another.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 04:41 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
It is also a fact that DSK has been publicly accused of attempted rape by a woman who was 19 at the time and of rape of a Mexican maid in a "tell all" novel. You choose to extrapolate one way, I choose another.


So a book that claimed to be fiction by the auther or at least publish as such should carry the same weight as three lawyers appearing to work for the "victim" within a very short time frame?

I in my years had read any numbers of novels about famous men and they tend not to follow at all closely the known facts concerning such men nor do they need to do so as they are publish as FICTION.

Let this maid leave the pages of a novel and come forward and then we will talk.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 04:44 pm
My goodness--some of us are getting excited aren't we? Psychological states are being laid bare left, right and centre.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 04:44 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Incorrect. The warning was not about flirting.

Try watching it again.
So you are hanging you hat on the rantings of Frances version of Gilbert Gottfried.....great.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 05:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
It's a good job I can't find my rhyming dictionary hawk.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 06:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
And who suspected that all those priests were molesting children before that scandal broke into the open? That behavior had been covered-up too.

The fact that DSK was never criminally charged before says nothing about whether he violated the law in that Sofitel hotel suite last month, or even about whether he violated the law elsewhere but was never caught.
Quote:
Very typical feminist outlook here, condemning a man for how women feel, not for what he has actually done. And there was only a few accounts in this thread or any where about women who would not be around DSK, or who felt the need for a battle buddy.

This has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. And you are forgetting that Sarkozy had warned him about his aggressive inappropriate tactics with women four years ago.
Quote:
Dominique Strauss-Kahn’s reputation of inappropriate behavior with women was so alarming that as long as four years ago, French President Nicolas Sarkozy warned him to control his behavior just prior to his assumption of the managing directorship of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), according to a report in The Times newspaper of Britain.

"Over there [U.S.] they don't joke about this sort of thing," Sarkozy reportedly told Strauss-Kahn.

"Your life will be passed under a magnifying glass. Avoid taking the lift alone with interns. France cannot permit a scandal."
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/147955/20110518/strauss-kahn-sarkozy-france-socialists.htm

When a man comes onto women in such a sexually inappropriate or aggressive way that women, apparently many women, report that they felt variously extremely pressured, harassed, anxious, or fearful about being alone with him, that is an indication that his behavior is crossing a line because it means he is forcing himself on others, when his advances were unwanted, and he seems to have been oblivious or unconcerned about that since he continued such behaviors. So, it is not a great leap of the imagination to think that, in that hotel suite, with a strange woman who was not his social equal, he felt sufficiently unconstrained so that he did not back off, and he forced an unwanted sexual contact, perhaps thinking he could offer her money and shut her up when it was over.

Sarkozy was right. We don't joke about criminal sexual assaults over here. The NYPD and the Manhattan D.A. aren't kidding--these are very serious charges that DSK faces in court. And I doubt he's laughing or making light of them either.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 07:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And who suspected that all those priests were molesting children before that scandal broke into the open? That behavior had been covered-up too
DSK has been all over the news for a month, with lots of people talking about his life long behavior, with some high power lawyers looking for women that has mistreated around the globe, with the tabloids willing to pay for stories and pics of such women FOR A MONTH. How many alleged victims of DSK sexual misbehavior do we have? That would be one maid and one 31 year old French author...kinda. There has to be a documented scandal before you can have the cover-up, and so far you cant produce one.

Quote:
The fact that DSK was never criminally charged before says nothing about whether he violated the law in that Sofitel hotel suite last month, or even about whether he violated the law elsewhere but was never caught.
Wrong, the fact the he has live 72 years and lever been charged with a sex crime, and even now there are no clear cut historical accounts of sex crimes that he has committed, indicates that he is not a sexual criminal. True predatory sexuality comes out long before 72 years of age, and general wealthy powerful men do not rape because they dont have any motivation to do so, they can have their pick of women. His lack of history with sex crimes and his general background and his age and not great health combin to make it highly unlikely that this man did what this woman claims that he did.

Quote:
When a man comes onto women in such a sexually inappropriate or aggressive way that women, apparently many women, report that they felt variously extremely pressured, harassed, anxious, or fearful about being alone with him, that is an indication that his behavior is crossing a line because it means he is forcing himself on others, when his advances were unwanted,
we all know that you don t put the line where I do, according to you any advances that are not wanted before hand are off limits (because men are supposed to be mind readers of course) and in my books men have the right to make a pass at any woman that we happen to fancy, no matter how slim the chances that we will be rewarded with a yes. We have many accounts of DSK making advances on any woman in a skirt that was halfway cute, and he was perfectly with-in his rights to pursue his self interest thusly. If the woman does not the advance, if he makes her feel pressured, if he seems creepy, they she should say no. Her not liking the advance however is not a statement against DSK at all, let alone justification for labeling him a dangerous preditor.


Quote:
Sarkozy was right. We don't joke about criminal sexual assaults over here
You assume the "that" means sexual assault where as it means seduction...what Sarkozy was telling DSK is that Americans are up tight prudes who dont any longer know how to enjoy the game of skirt chasing.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 07:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Wrong, the fact the he has live 72 years

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