Osama Bin Laden is dead

@Ceili,

Quote:

All terrorist groups need the street for two things, fundraising and recruits. When one or both dry up, so do the institutions they feed.

On "Dispatches" today (the CBC radio program), they interviewed a terrorism expert from London, who stated that Al Qaeda has seen a steep decline in their income over the last five years. He further said something very interesting, that Al Qaeda is not an organization, it is a brand. In other words, each group around the world which claims to be Al Qaeda has no affiliation with bin Laden's organization, they're just using the name. That divides the dwindling revenues available to them further. It was a very interesting program today, you might check out the podcast.

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@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
I am satisfied that the last thing bin Laden saw was an American pointing a gun at him.

Aren't you the one, FF, who has gone to great lengths to explain to Hawkeye, Bill and the like, just how important it is to see that justice is done? I know, from past experience with your great propensity to stop well short of the truth, that winding things up like this sits well with you.

But justice also entails finding out the truth about every detail of this whole sordid affair, which started some time before 9-11. Those are the things that I'm sure you're happy died with OBL.

Let me fill you in on a little secret. That's so far from anyone's concept of justice, even yours, that it's laughable, it's screechingly hilarious.

The only thing screeching around here is your stiflingly repetitious bleating about the evil USA. Screeching like nails on a blackboard. What do you see as your purpose for beating the same horses to dust? Do you believe that you are enlightening anyone? Do you see yourself as the clarion voice of truth in the wilderness? What?

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Kinda puts the lie to Rummy, Bush, Cheney and all the other boys' lies about this giant terrorist organization that had these huge modern complexes/infrastructure under the mountains of Afghanistan.

Feeling completely took yet, gang?

In case y'all haven't noticed there are millions dead and injured, two countries destroyed, as if y'all hadn't already done a real number on both I & A before these latest series of war crimes.

Remind me again about how you are all such independent rational thinkers, how you are all so big on seeing justice prevail, how the US is a gentle beneficent giant.

What do you figure the breakdown is on this one? What percent of Americans think these two were, like Vietnam, immoral and just plain wrong?

What percent believe it was just another case of Uncle Sam trying to do his best but his big clodhoppers just happened to trample a few innocents, you know, that's war and sometimes bad things happen in war?

What country is next? Are there any left?

Let's have a pool where we all throw in a couple bucks and the winner is the one who can most accurately create the next story line that you're going to be fed by the next wacko government you elect.

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@snood,

Hopefully, people will begin to think, Snood, about things that are really important like not slaughtering millions because you have a bunch of wackos as your government.

Am I to take it that you think slaughtering a bunch of innocents is a good idea?

Weren't you the one who recently was complaining about how provincial those folks in your school district were; how they didn't seem at all interested in any discussion of what was right, what was just, what was moral?

What has caused this sea change in you in a matter of weeks?

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Hopefully, people will begin to think, Snood, about things that are really important like not slaughtering millions because you have a bunch of wackos as your government.

Am I to take it that you think slaughtering a bunch of innocents is a good idea?

Weren't you the one who recently was complaining about how provincial those folks in your school district were; how they didn't seem at all interested in any discussion of what was right, what was just, what was moral?

What has caused this sea change in you in a matter of weeks?

Whatever.
Excuse me dime-store Don Quixote, but I don't see any connection between my condemning the homophobia and religious bigotry I see in my junior high school, and your endless hysteria about how our country is evil.

I'm sure you do see a connection, but that just makes you nuts on top of being the discussion-forum member equivalent of a hemorrhoid.

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

Whatever.
Excuse me dime-store Don Quixote, but I don't see any connection between my condemning the homophobia and religious bigotry I see in my junior high school, and your endless hysteria about how our country is evil.

"whatever"; now there's an excellent response. Just what one would expect from a recent graduate of a Masters program, was it, Snood.

As you probably noted, I said "hopefully" and the first response to that wasn't encouraging. In fact, you've fallen back on precisely the same ignorance that you chided those other folks for.

The hysteria is coming from you because the facts are overwhelming - the US has engaged in numerous war crimes/instances of mass murder/material support for rape and torture/ ... .

Just deal with one instance, Snood, Reagan's war crimes against Nicaragua. The World Court found against the US. The countries of the world, something like 94-3 supporting the court's decision and demanding the US deal with with this as a civilized country would.

Go read about it. Do what you thought those folks should be doing, thinking and addressing the facts, what's right, what's proper.

1 Reply

@JTT,

You are a roach motel of a conversationalist. Facts go in, but they don't come out. At long last, welcome to my ignore. My last jangling nerve that you keep jumping up and down on is heaving a sigh of relief.

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@snood,

That was funny, Snood. I have no one on ignore, but I do use the thumb down option regularly.

1 Reply

@snood,

It cleans up pages immediately.

In other news, US officials need to STFU. This sounds awful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8491768/Osama-bin-laden-would-have-to-be-naked-for-surrender.html

I really think the American people need to hear the factual account of what the hell happened to OBL. Did we make any attempt at arrest, or was it just a wink wink, nudge nudge let's kill his ass on sight deal?

I still at least entertain the notion that we were at war with this guy, and as a combatant at large, we may have had the right to kill him as on the field of battle - but I don't LIKE that idea....among children and wives. Still, he didn't give a rat's ass whose children and wives HE killed.

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@snood,

Another person has put me on ignore. Anyone care to guess what his nationality is?

A few hints:

He just completed a Masters degree. I think his Masters thesis was entitled, A Debating or Fleeing to Ignore for Dummies .

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@Lash,

Quote:

It cleans up pages immediately.

No, Lash, it allows to remain safe in your little bubble. It allows you to hear only what you little mind can handle.

Here are a few of your comments on those things that you thought were important to a discussion:

=============================

From Page 11 of the Tunesia thread:

* So, be responsible for what you said.

* So, stop getting weird when people disagree with you.

* ... everyone who shares an opinion on this thread is called upon to explain, support or clarify their views. So are you.

* You just want to make whatever half-baked comment you please and run off without being held accountable for what you say. This is what's going to happen: When I have an agreement, disagreement or question that I think merits a comment, I'm going to make the comment - just like I do with everyone else. If your delicate sensibilities can't withstand that, put me on ignore. If you repeat that behavior when someone has the audacity to actually question what you say, pretty soon, you'll be here all by yourself, happily spewing whatever wrongheaded pablum excretes from your perfectly correct keyboard, without the pesky bother of anyone's irritating questions or redirection.

=========================

Then, in a series of PMs, Lash first started out by trying to win me over with her charms. That didn't last long. She launched into the same tirade as other have done on these pages - "You hate my country. I'm tired of you attacking country".

Now, the grand arbiter of debating rules has me on ignore. And what nationality might you be, Lash?

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@Setanta,

Thanks for the heads up. I just checked it out.
The same thing in most terrorist groups. They're hip for a while, but when their bloody message begins to hit home and reality sets in, the bigger parties either implode or give up. Splinter groups never see the big money, they don't have the fundraising or weapons pipelines set up. They are almost always a one shot wonders too.
I remember as a kid, going to parties, and seeing a hat passed round for the widows and orphans fund... When people grew disgusted and tired of the endless bloodbath, they stopped donating.
When parents get sick of the cause, they stop sending their babies to be martyrs. When people have homes, an education, jobs, food, a future, they stop listening to or repeating the slogans. They move on.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

It cleans up pages immediately.

In other news, US officials need to STFU. This sounds awful.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8491768/Osama-bin-laden-would-have-to-be-naked-for-surrender.html

I really think the American people need to hear the factual account of what the hell happened to OBL. Did we make any attempt at arrest, or was it just a wink wink, nudge nudge let's kill his ass on sight deal?

I still at least entertain the notion that we were at war with this guy, and as a combatant at large, we may have had the right to kill him as on the field of battle - but I don't LIKE that idea....among children and wives. Still, he didn't give a rat's ass whose children and wives HE killed.

If we just try to stand back and look at this clinically - sort of on a benefits/costs basis, what indeed would be gained by knowing for certain anything more than that US forces killed bin Laden? I only see a downside to trying to sift through to see if there are more purient, tabloidesque aspects to the operation. More fodder for endless partisan one-upsmanship, more grist for madmen like JTT to drool over, less of a clear morale boost for the nation.

At worst the way I see it, we made US forces look more noble and heroic than they might have been in this case. At worst, they planned and carried out a straight-up execution and are trying to make it look like a battle with bin Laden's casualty as an outcome. That definitely isn't a morally upstanding scenario, and I don't imagine us ever becoming a nation of holy warriors.

I also believe in the right of the public to know, but that is tempered by a belief in doing the most good for the most people.

Do we need to know any more about how bin Laden died (if we stipulate he did in fact die, of course)?

1 Reply

@Ceili,

Quote:

All terrorist groups need the street for two things, fundraising and recruits. When one or both dry up, so do the institutions they feed.

What do you figure the chances are, Ceili, of the CIA's sources and resources drying up?

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

What do you figure the chances are, Ceili, of the CIA's sources drying up?

Not taking your meds are you..........

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@BillRM,

What do you figure the chances are, Bill, of the CIA's sources and resources drying up?

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@Ceili,

Good point, Ceili.

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@realjohnboy,

I have a few on ignore. Sometimes after a day, I'll look in on the economics thread and find a whole page of collapsed posts. Whenever I check one out, I realized there was a reason for ignoring.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

Do we need to know any more about how bin Laden died (if we stipulate he did in fact die, of course)?

I'd have said no a few days ago and I still don't need/want to see photographic proof. But I would like an accurate 'official' accounting in the wake of so much misinformation. The New York Times had yet another version to report on last night and the UK Telegraph has reported on the 'missing 25 minutes' of videotape, making it sound suspicious.

I don't thing it's wrong to want to know exactly what happened. The people that know what happened work for us, after all, right?

1 Reply

@Irishk,

Irishk wrote:

snood wrote:
Do we need to know any more about how bin Laden died (if we stipulate he did in fact die, of course)?

I'd have said no a few days ago and I still don't need/want to see photographic proof. But I would like an accurate 'official' accounting in the wake of so much misinformation. The New York Times had yet another version to report on last night and the UK Telegraph has reported on the 'missing 25 minutes' of videotape, making it sound suspicious.

I don't thing it's wrong to want to know exactly what happened. The people that know what happened work for us, after all, right?

Yeah, of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to know what happened. But what do you see as the damage done if you never get the 100% clear recollection of what happened?

See, here's the thing about wanting to know what happened with bin Laden...

I want to know the real truth about Pat Tillman, and get people brought to justice that covered up that fratricide, because the ramifications of that case can affect all of our brothers, sons, sisters and daughters that have to go downrange and get in harm's way for God and country.

I want to know what exactly they do with Bradley Manning, the young man who leaked to wikileaks, because that has implications to everyone who gets caught in a position where they need to decide whether to whistleblow on their superiors.

There are several other dark corners I'd like illuminated, but I have a desire to know in all these cases because I see the information as something that would be an added value.

In this case of "how exactly did bin Laden die?", if the seals and CIA are being cutsie with the facts in order to appear less ruthless and coldblooded, the guy still needed to be dead, and whatever else is going on there doesn't amount to much in my estimation.

3 Replies

Osama Bin Laden is dead

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