The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

@Baldimo,

The visas are for temporary seasonal jobs so maybe I should say soon to be illegal immigrants. I really believe that very few of these people would want to return to a third world country. There would be one way to find out check to see how many actually returned to Mexico. Many foreign students go to college in America on student visas and many just stay in America after they finish school. Why would Trump even want to hire foreigners when there is a population of 1,471,150 near Mar-a-Lago. Surely Trump could find 70 people to hire. If you ask Trump or others like they will tell you can’t find Americans willing to work. In fact, this is exactly what Trump has to tell the State Department in order to get his 70 visas for foreign workers. Trump is required to show that he advertised the jobs and could not find one American willing to do the job. Trump uses tricks to make sure that no Americans apply. He advertises in tiny print in an obscure publication and requires people to fax their applications. It is hypocrisy for Trump to say there are no Americans to fill the jobs in America and then cry bloody murder about foreigners coming into America.

I never said anything about open borders. America has managed its borders for 200 years long before that descendent of a German whore monger swiped the election.

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@Baldimo,

I am sorry but “Time Magazine” is a reliable source with an army of fact checkers when they say seven mass shootings in Colorado this year you can take it to the bank. I think you are confusing mass murders with mass shootings. I believe the FBI is responsible for the profile of mass murders being white. I believe that gang shootings would be classified as mass shootings in some instances, but most gang shootings don’t rise to the level of mass murders. Of all the mass murders in the last ten years I don’t remember one being done by a black man.

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Time Magazine has been in the news business since 1923 and it is not just a web site and articles are fact checked.
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I think that if the AR-15 was not modified properly it would not fire automatically and they police would have no idea it was modified otherwise.

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I suspect there are more cases than just the one in Alabama, but I am absolutely sure there will be more as the Police rush headlong into a mass shooting and find some gun nut is standing there with his gun in his hand and dead bodies laying around.

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@Zardoz,

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I am sorry but “Time Magazine” is a reliable source with an army of fact checkers when they say seven mass shootings in Colorado this year you can take it to the bank.

Time didn't check anything, they took the word of a bias anti-gun website. I've already provided some of the facts on the cases in question and only 2 qualify as a mass shooting.

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I think you are confusing mass murders with mass shootings. I believe the FBI is responsible for the profile of mass murders being white.

No, there has been false info, as usual, about the amount of mass shootings this year and how none of them were committed by black people. Well, the majority of the "mass shootings" in CO were committed by black guys, all you have to do is read the stories.

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I believe that gang shootings would be classified as mass shootings in some instances, but most gang shootings don’t rise to the level of mass murders. Of all the mass murders in the last ten years I don’t remember one being done by a black man.

Your bias is showing as well as your lack of honesty, the Navy Yard shooter, who killed 12 people was a black man.

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Time Magazine has been in the news business since 1923 and it is not just a web site and articles are fact checked.

That doesn't mean anything, when humans are involved nothing is perfect.

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I think that if the AR-15 was not modified properly it would not fire automatically and they police would have no idea it was modified otherwise.

Seeing as how you know nothing about guns, I'm going to clue you in on something. They inspect weapons when they are collected for evidence, so an inspection of the weapon would have shown what he did. We won't know if the modification was done properly, he never used the weapon.

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I suspect there are more cases than just the one in Alabama, but I am absolutely sure there will be more as the Police rush headlong into a mass shooting and find some gun nut is standing there with his gun in his hand and dead bodies laying around.

Your bias towards people with guns is pathetic.

So now you admit that the police reaction to a mass shooting is to engage the shooter? If that's the case why did you spend so much time defending that chicken cop who failed to do his job in FL?

You need to back up your statement about cops shooting lots of good guys with guns. I can provide plenty of stories where the good guy with a gun stopped the killing.

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@Baldimo,

So far this year there have been over 300 mass shootings that means the average state is going to have 7 mass shootings. The web site “Gun Violence Archive” lists 7 mass shooting taking place in Colorado this year. The details of the shooting are listed along with the dates and city the mass shootings took place in. The shooting would be extremely easy to cross check with news papers so there would be no advantage for the site to lie. You might want to check your facts by going by the listed cites and dates.

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1) Feb 25 Colorado Springs 4225 Galley Rd 2 dead 4 injured
2) June 14 Westminster 5150 W 80th Ave 1 dead 3 injured
3) May 27 Aurora 15373 6th Ave 1 dead 3 injured
4) July 15 Denver 50th Ave and Grant Street 0 dead 4 injured
5) August 31 Aurora 1900 block of Peoria St 2 dead 3 injured
6) November 19 Denver 1200 21st St 1 dead 4 injured
7) August 11 Thornton 4050 E 100th Ave 1 dead 3injured

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I get it like Giuliana the truth is not the truth.

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You are still confusing mass shootings with mass murders. Gangs are often involved in mass shootings but not mass murders.

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I don’t recall the race of the Navy Yard shooter but there are exceptions to every rule, but exceptions doesn’t overrule the rule.

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People with a lot of assets naturally protect them if Time prints lies they can be sued and lose those all those assets so they employ fact checkers.

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The police may have checked the AR-15 but the shooter would have checked it before he got to the site of his planned mass murder. There would be nothing worse for a mass murderer than to get there without a working AR-15.
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It is not so much a prejudice against people with guns as it is a prejudice against people without common sense it is just that they seem to be the same people. For every good guy that stopped a crime I can show ten that were killed with their own gun. If you are at a mass shooting with a gun in your hand you might as well hang a target around your neck.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

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So far this year there have been over 300 mass shootings that means the average state is going to have 7 mass shootings.

There has only been "300 mass shootings" if you use the loosest meaning of the term and lie about some of those involved in the shootings. I checked the stories and most of them do not fit the generally accepted definition of a mass shooting.

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The web site “Gun Violence Archive” lists 7 mass shooting taking place in Colorado this year. The details of the shooting are listed along with the dates and city the mass shootings took place in. The shooting would be extremely easy to cross check with news papers so there would be no advantage for the site to lie. You might want to check your facts by going by the listed cites and dates.

I checked the stories and that's why I called them out. It would be easy to check, but this site is designed for rubes like yourself who don't like guns and want to see them banned. It's a bias in the reporting and you will also notice they give no information on why the shootings took place or who the shootings took place between, only that a shooting happened and how many people were involved.

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I get it like Giuliana the truth is not the truth.

That applies to leftist who have an agenda to change the Constitution and revoke our rights. Kind of how there are only 2 genders/sexes but leftists are now making up all sorts of genders that don't really exist.

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You are still confusing mass shootings with mass murders. Gangs are often involved in mass shootings but not mass murders.

No I'm not. I pointed out long ago your continued switch between uses of mass murder vs mass shooting vs school shootings to fit your anti-gun agenda. When I pointed those out, you conveniently wouldn't reply to the claims and instead would switch definitions again in an attempt to not be pinned down for your rhetoric. You know, just like you do with how guns and ammo work.

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I don’t recall the race of the Navy Yard shooter but there are exceptions to every rule, but exceptions doesn’t overrule the rule.

I'm sure there is, but in this case the majority of the shootings in Colorado were committed by black men. I will admit that the majority of mass shootings are committed by young white men, but they are not committing a majority of the gun deaths.

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The police may have checked the AR-15 but the shooter would have checked it before he got to the site of his planned mass murder. There would be nothing worse for a mass murderer than to get there without a working AR-15.

You would assume he checked it out first but that isn't a guarantee that it would continue to work after he test fired. Unless the police release a report on the weapon, we will never know. Trying to use this example of a non-mass shooting is weak. Lets be happy LEO did good work and stopped this guy before he had a chance to do real harm.

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People with a lot of assets naturally protect them if Time prints lies they can be sued and lose those all those assets so they employ fact checkers.

You place way to much faith in a powerful media organization, could it be because you happen to agree with Time and share their bias? Nothing like being a company like them and lying on the cover of the magazine. Crying immigrant girl ring a bell? That entire story and cover were BS.

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It is not so much a prejudice against people with guns as it is a prejudice against people without common sense it is just that they seem to be the same people.

It is a prejudice because you and others think these people are the average gun owner, which they are not, not by a long shot.
What do you consider "common sense"? Guns are bad, get rid of them?

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For every good guy that stopped a crime I can show ten that were killed with their own gun.

You can't prove what you claim. There are a minimum of 250,000 self-defensive gun uses in the US each year, there is no where that many people killed per year. In fact when you remove the majority of gun deaths, suicide from the counting of gun deaths, you have under 12,0000 murders per year with a gun. I would say 250,000 is a much larger # than 12,000 and that 12,000 number is made up of a majority of gangs who commit those murders.

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If you are at a mass shooting with a gun in your hand you might as well hang a target around your neck.

You are not wrong. That is one of the things that is taught during carry conceal classes, how to react to certain instances and how to ID yourself to LEO who will show up on the scene. You have one instance of a good guy with a gun being mistaken for the shooter and being shot by cops. It is a chance you take when you decide to conceal carry, hence the reason most states require training before issuing the permit.

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@Baldimo,

The FBI definition of a mass shooting is very simple: a shooting which four or more people are injured or killed. Every one of those shootings meets that criteria.

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There is a difference between statistics and news stories. News stories will tell you details of shootings statistics will not.

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No one on the left would every say “the truth is not the truth.” What is surprising is that so many people accept 2,000-year-old ignorance as fact. Psychologist have studied sexual orientation for decades and they have found that sexual orientation is not always the birth sex. The ignorant always say God does not make mistakes. What of babies born with both sexes? You will never find sexual orientation between the legs it is between the ears. It always made me uncomfortable to have to bust a gay bar, but I know that is my problem not theirs.
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The definition is simple kill for or more people it is a mass murder. Shoot 4 or more people it is a mass shooting.

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Times change and I am sure that we will see black mass murders. At one time women were not usually serial killers but there have been a few.
If someone was going hunting and they had modified their gun they would test fire to make sure it worked. They even test fire them if they haven’t used them since last year and continue for hours at a time.

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I guess you should not trust a publication that would put Trump on the cover. If they had a bias would they put that loser on the cover?
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If you knew driving at 150 mph would be a danger to you and others would you do it? Most people would not it is a matter of common sense. Owning a gun is more dangerous than that.

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You watch ID, how many cases have you seen where the murder victim is killed with their own gun? We had one the other day where a six-year-old and 8-year-old where jumping on the bed when the gun went off and shot both of them with the same bullet. When you have a gun in the house the couple will argue more frequently and during an argument the gun will end the argument once and for all.

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I don’t know where your stat comes from, but I suspect it is like the incident over a parking place where the one guy shoved the other down and the guy that was shoved down shoots and kills the other. Because of the stand your ground laws many “justified shootings” are murders.

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A cop going in to a mass shooting is quite different than someone taught for a conceal carry permit. It is not like the simulation. You have two people shot where a black man has shot another black man and there is another black man point a gun. The shooter looks like every other black man in the mall. They don’t have a sign around their neck saying, “good guy” or bad guy.”

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

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The FBI definition of a mass shooting is very simple: a shooting which four or more people are injured or killed. Every one of those shootings meets that criteria.

Except there is also the motive of the crime which also accounts for a mass shooting. Shooting a family in their home isn't a mass shooting, if there is a cooling off period between shootings, like moving from one location to another. Like I said, they only fit with the most basic and loosest meaning of the phrase.

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There is a difference between statistics and news stories. News stories will tell you details of shootings statistics will not.

Stat's can lie and leave important info out of the facts. Stories give you an idea of what actually happened, and it's the facts' surrounding the case which make it a mass shooting or not. The website links to a single story and a majority of those stories didn't contain the most important info about the shootings.

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No one on the left would every say “the truth is not the truth.”

You must be kidding. The left do it all the time, they don't get caught because the MSM who reports on the "truth" supports what the left says. They don't fact check, just run with the propaganda.

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What is surprising is that so many people accept 2,000-year-old ignorance as fact.

Why bring this up to me, I'm not a religious person, I'm not even a Christian. The only reason you bring up this tripe is to get me to defend it some how. Not sure why you are always trying to get me to defend something I don't believe in. It's a distraction.

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Psychologist have studied sexual orientation for decades and they have found that sexual orientation is not always the birth sex.

No one mentioned sexual orientation.

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The ignorant always say God does not make mistakes. What of babies born with both sexes?

Babies born with both sexes have a birth defect. Why are you making this a religious discussion?

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You will never find sexual orientation between the legs it is between the ears. It always made me uncomfortable to have to bust a gay bar, but I know that is my problem not theirs.

I can see you have changed the subject to argue a point I didn't make. Good luck on that.

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The definition is simple kill for or more people it is a mass murder. Shoot 4 or more people it is a mass shooting.

Sorry it's not that simple but you anti-gun groups will continue on regardless of what is pointed out to you.

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If someone was going hunting and they had modified their gun they would test fire to make sure it worked. They even test fire them if they haven’t used them since last year and continue for hours at a time.

Once again, it isn't that simple to make a semi-auto into a full auto and make it work properly. You can think what you want about how things work, but you have already demonstrated that you don't understand how guns work.

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I guess you should not trust a publication that would put Trump on the cover. If they had a bias would they put that loser on the cover?

Liberal media bias against Trump, is pretty clear and obvious.

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If you knew driving at 150 mph would be a danger to you and others would you do it? Most people would not it is a matter of common sense. Owning a gun is more dangerous than that.

Driving at 150 mph equates to owning a gun how? Much like a car, a gun is safe as long as you know how to handle the gun.

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You watch ID, how many cases have you seen where the murder victim is killed with their own gun?

In a crime committed by someone in their house, not by a stranger.

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We had one the other day where a six-year-old and 8-year-old where jumping on the bed when the gun went off and shot both of them with the same bullet.

I've done a google search and I can't find this story you claim happened. Proof?

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When you have a gun in the house the couple will argue more frequently and during an argument the gun will end the argument once and for all.

Do you even have proof for this false argument? Facts that say people with guns in the house fight more often? There are over 250 million guns in the US and over millions of gun owners, it shouldn't be hard to prove what you say but it won't happen because you are making things up.

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I don’t know where your stat comes from, but I suspect it is like the incident over a parking place where the one guy shoved the other down and the guy that was shoved down shoots and kills the other.

You know where my stat comes from, I've used them before, don't play ignorant, it comes from the 2013 CDC gun study. They claimed there were between 250,000 and 2.5 million self-defensive gun uses in the US each year.

As to the event you are talking about, that was indeed a justified shooting. The man was talking with the lady and the other guy, who was younger and bigger than the old man, without knowing what was going on shoved him to the ground and was prepared to start swinging on the old man on the ground. The only thing that stopped that old man from getting beat was the equalizer he had, his gun. Remember, the old man didn't start the violence, the young man did, he had no reason to shove that old man to the ground and threaten to beat him up.

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A cop going in to a mass shooting is quite different than someone taught for a conceal carry permit.

So you are now admitting that the proper response to a mass shooting is for the police to engage the shooter and not wait outside?

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Do you think there is not a motive when a family is killed in their home? The motives of some families are even killed for 2,000-year-old-ignorance. Why not kill your entire family and send them to heaven? You would be doing them a favor. One woman killed her entire family because her religion taught her the end was near. The definition is simple that was a mass murder with motive. If you have a mass murderer kill 10 people in one location and go to another location and kill 10 more it is a mass murder with two different scenes. People want to make things more complicated then they are.

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You keep looking for an out that is not there. Stats are kept simple for a reason each mass murder has different than others in some aspect. Stats will just contain the facts relevant to those stats.

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Anybody on the right or the left who had said live on national television “the truth is not the truth” would have got the attention of the news media and Fox would still be reporting it every day if somebody on the left had said it. It was said on live national television.

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The reason it comes up is because the issue can never be separated from the 2000-year-old ignorance. In the bible you never find Jesus with a woman but there is an extremely clear passage of him with a man, but our religious friends ignore that. The ignorance and hate that has got thousands of innocent people killed is preached from the bloody pulpit every Sunday.
What we know about people is that they are different. To try and put everybody into a couple of boxes marked male and female won’t even work using the bodies as some have both sets of sexual organs. My mom worked in the nursery and she said most people have no idea how many babies are born with both sets of sexual organs. It something these ignorant preachers are never exposed too. This is a closely guarded secret by the individuals and families involved. One of those individuals worked for the fire department and when “she” was going to live as a man and have her breasts removed, she had to be protected from the “perverted firemen.”

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School shootings are just a subset of mass murders not a separate category.
Babies born with two heads might be a birth defect, but I don’t know that I would classify those born with both sets of sexual organs as a birth defect it does not threaten their survival and it is far more common than most people realize. The ignorant fear those that are different. The reason it becomes a religious discussion is because it is the major religions that are responsible for persecuting them. Face it these people can’t win they are gay which ever way they go.
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You bought it up as a political argument about two genders.
You can add subsets and motives to try and hide the truth but in the end it does not matter what the motives was or where it took place to the statistician only the criteria.

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If a gun fires 900 rounds a minute you know it is working. It is not hard to tell it is working if you pull the trigger and your AR-15 empties the clip it is working on other hand if you pull the trigger an nothing happens it is not working. It is not rocket science.

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Bias? They made Trump man of the year and even many Republicans thought that was just wrong.

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A car can be driven at 150 mph as long as something doesn’t go wrong, or some idiot pull out in front of you. In fact, they have been writing speeding tickets for over 150 mph on a Chicago toll Rd. I haven’t heard of any of them being killed at that speed but there are all kinds of people being killed with guns in Chicago. Stats would point to guns be far more dangerous.
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No actually often a stranger comes into the house and uses the home owner’s gun to blow him away. His wife might have tipped the stranger off as to where to find the gun. They supply the murder with a gun he would not otherwise have.

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The story about the six-year-old should be in archive of Channel 3 in Huntington or the Herald Dispatch. It was recent a month or so ago.
The study is over 40 years old it was part of a sociology class when I was in college. The study put a gun or a knife on a table in front of the participants and contrasted it with participants who had no gun or knife in front of them. This clearly showed more arguments took place among participants with either the gun or the knife on the table in front of them. The couple with guns in the house may not be on the table but they would always be aware they are in the house. Sorry it is a real study.

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The Republicans passed a law that prohibited the CDC from gathering statistics that would reflect badly on guns. Since they are prohibited by law from showing how dangerous guns are. I wonder if their statistics are biased by the NRA. Guns are now being declared a national health hazard.

Forty-eight hours reported on one of the incidents at a college-campuses where a fist fight started with some fraternity brothers hitting another college student. The student went to his car got his gun out of the glove compartment went back 90 feet and opened fire killing one and injuring two. When I went to college a fist fight ended with the fist fight now a coward always has a gun and fist fights end with someone being killed.
The incident where the man is pushed to ground is an excellent example of why some people shouldn’t have a gun. If I shot everybody that shoved me down there would be a lot of dead people. I saw the video of this shooting and if the old man had just stayed down it was over. The other man made no attempt to attack him. The older man was the aggressor. He had no business trying to enforce the law he was not a policeman. He could have called the police and reported it giving them the license number.
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We had one of those shooting simulators at work why it might prepare you for normal incident it would not help for going into a mass shooting in a crowded mall. A man with a gun in his hand is a man with a gun and you are not going to ask to see his conceal carry permit.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

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Do you think there is not a motive when a family is killed in their home?

Of course there is a motive, but mass shooting isn't the reason. Those types of crimes fall into a different category. They only count as mass shootings for the sake of anti-gun propaganda.

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People want to make things more complicated then they are.

We live in a complicated world.

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The motives of some families are even killed for 2,000-year-old-ignorance. Why not kill your entire family and send them to heaven? You would be doing them a favor. One woman killed her entire family because her religion taught her the end was near.

Unrelated to the subject and a cheap dig at religion for you. Why concentrate on religion?

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You keep looking for an out that is not there. Stats are kept simple for a reason each mass murder has different than others in some aspect. Stats will just contain the facts relevant to those stats.

The only stats you are concerend with are the ones that allow you to restrict guns. You don't care about the stats that support DGU, defensive gun use, of which there are more DGU in the US than there are murders with guns. As I have pointed out for some time, that stats are never in the anti-gun propaganda favor.

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Anybody on the right or the left who had said live on national television “the truth is not the truth” would have got the attention of the news media and Fox would still be reporting it every day if somebody on the left had said it. It was said on live national television.

I don't care about what is happening with that scam, keep to the subject at hand.

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What we know about people is that they are different. To try and put everybody into a couple of boxes marked male and female won’t even work using the bodies as some have both sets of sexual organs.

You were just claiming that the world isn't complicated, and now you are trying to claim that a persons sex is complicated. You either have a penis or a vagina and a very small percentage are born with some combination of both or neither.

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My mom worked in the nursery and she said most people have no idea how many babies are born with both sets of sexual organs. It something these ignorant preachers are never exposed too. This is a closely guarded secret by the individuals and families involved. One of those individuals worked for the fire department and when “she” was going to live as a man and have her breasts removed, she had to be protected from the “perverted firemen.”

Your mom was talking about birth defects, and those types of birth defects happen in a very small percentage of the population, less than 1% and even using 1% is generous. The number has grown because people have started to say they "feel" like they were born a different sex.

My sister has worked as a birthing nurse in AZ for over 20 years, I asked her how many babies she had seen born with both sexes and she said......

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School shootings are just a subset of mass murders not a separate category.

Could have fooled me with how the anti-gun groups react when such an event takes place. The lies that are told and the facts that are held back to push propaganda says differently. School shooting with an AR-15 gets coverage for weeks, a school shooting with a handgun and s shotgun gets almost no coverage at all. How many shootings and deaths in Chicago or any other major city for that matter over a weekend.

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Babies born with two heads might be a birth defect, but I don’t know that I would classify those born with both sets of sexual organs as a birth defect it does not threaten their survival and it is far more common than most people realize.

Talk about twisting logic. Humans are suppose to have a specific # of appendages to include 1 head, 2 arms, 2 legs and set of genitalia, since there are only 2 genitalia to pick from and 98%+ of the population is born with 1 or the other, anything outside of the norm is considered a birth defect.
1% or less of the population isn't common at all, it is rare.

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If a gun fires 900 rounds a minute you know it is working. It is not hard to tell it is working if you pull the trigger and your AR-15 empties the clip it is working on other hand if you pull the trigger an nothing happens it is not working. It is not rocket science.

I take it you have never modified something before. If you had, you would know that sure, it can work when you test it but fails in the real world. You've claimed to work in the racing field before, never had a car start in the pit and then fail to start at the starting line? I've seen it plenty of times at many drag races at Bandimere Speedway in CO.

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Bias? They made Trump man of the year and even many Republicans thought that was just wrong.

They made him Person of the year while noting that not every person of the year is picked because of good reasons. Don't play games.

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No actually often a stranger comes into the house and uses the home owner’s gun to blow him away. His wife might have tipped the stranger off as to where to find the gun. They supply the murder with a gun he would not otherwise have.

Often? You are making statements you have no way of proving. Usually when a husband is killed in the house and the wife lives, it is either her or her lover who killed the husband, no strangers involved.

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The story about the six-year-old should be in archive of Channel 3 in Huntington or the Herald Dispatch. It was recent a month or so ago.

So you continue to have others do your research for you?

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The study is over 40 years old it was part of a sociology class when I was in college. The study put a gun or a knife on a table in front of the participants and contrasted it with participants who had no gun or knife in front of them. This clearly showed more arguments took place among participants with either the gun or the knife on the table in front of them. The couple with guns in the house may not be on the table but they would always be aware they are in the house. Sorry it is a real study.

Facts or proof? You also have a bad habit of "providing studies" that you don't actually provide any proof of. Welcome to the internet, if the study was done, a reference can be found on it. Stop being lazy and expecting me to research your "facts".

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The Republicans passed a law that prohibited the CDC from gathering statistics that would reflect badly on guns. Since they are prohibited by law from showing how dangerous guns are. I wonder if their statistics are biased by the NRA. Guns are now being declared a national health hazard.

More lies. The law said that they couldn't do a study which would be used to influence policy on gun rights. They could study all the gun violence they wanted to and publish the findings, but since they couldn't use it to change the Constitution they didn't bother with the studies.
Here's what the Dickey Amendment actually says, see research is easy on the interent, you should try it sometime.

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In United States politics, the Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control.

They could have studied violence all they wanted to, just not use the studies to influence our Constitution.
2013 CDC Study on Guns, as approved and funded by the Obama Administration. There is a reason the MSM never talks about it and continues to push their propaganda:
http://www.ncdsv.org/images/IOM-NRC_Priorities-for-Research-to-reduce-the-threat-of-firearm-related-violence_2013.pdf

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Forty-eight hours reported on one of the incidents at a college-campuses where a fist fight started with some fraternity brothers hitting another college student. The student went to his car got his gun out of the glove compartment went back 90 feet and opened fire killing one and injuring two.

Did that student get charged or was a set free due to Stand Your Ground? From what you described, he should have had charges pressed.
I checked the story and sure enough, the kid has had charges pressed against him. It looks like justice will be served. Sound like this doesn't fit your narrative.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-college-party-leaves-student-dead-facing-murder/story?id=49685218

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The incident where the man is pushed to ground is an excellent example of why some people shouldn’t have a gun.

I would disagree and so would the DA who declined to press charges.

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If I shot everybody that shoved me down there would be a lot of dead people.

I don't know what kind of life you are living, but I've never been shoved around as an adult, never had to throw a punch since I was out of high school.

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I saw the video of this shooting and if the old man had just stayed down it was over.

He never should have been shoved in the first place, not sure why you think pushing someone to the ground is acceptable behavior.

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The other man made no attempt to attack him.

Then how did the man end up on the ground?

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The older man was the aggressor. He had no business trying to enforce the law he was not a policeman.

Do you really want me to believe that asking someone who isn't handicap to move out of a handicap parking space is an act of aggression? Words? A request?

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He could have called the police and reported it giving them the license number.

An older white man calling the cops on a younger black man... this old dude can't win with people like you.

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We had one of those shooting simulators at work why it might prepare you for normal incident it would not help for going into a mass shooting in a crowded mall. A man with a gun in his hand is a man with a gun and you are not going to ask to see his conceal carry permit.

You have already proven you don't have the faintest clue what you are talking about when it comes to police response actions. Don't try and speak like you know what you are talking about.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

The category is any shooting that injure or kills for or more people period any subsets you may want to create are fine as long as you remember that all of those shootings fall into the major category. You could create a subset of mass shootings that happen on week-ends but they still fall under the major category of mass shootings. You want to change reality by creating subsets and subtracting them from the overall figure.

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It may be complicated world but that does not mean that everything is complicated.

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No, it goes toward motive and religion throughout history has got more people killed than all other motives combined.

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Stats are only stats and the NRA could say see guns could kill 300,000 a year how fortunate they only 30,000 are killed. Your defensive stat is questionable. Who collects these stats the NRA. There members just call them in. The police department records murders and shooting injuries but for those that shoot the neighbor boy in the rear with rock salt are not reported. I have experienced these people protecting themselves with a gun. When I was a child a group of us were playing in a church yard the old lady across the street did not like it. She got her shot gun and chambered the shells. It is just another bully with a gun and no sense. The gun nuts ran rampant until the brandishing laws were enforced and started locking those people up.
____________________________________________________________________________________
When you say, “the truth is not the truth” it reflects the political philosophy of the right. If you can’t hold power by telling the truth than lie like hell and tell people that is the truth.

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While the world may be complicated not everything in the world is complicated.

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I think you may find that people who work in nurseries might dispute the figure and the people involved have a motive to hide the condition. Do you think birth certificates are issued with a question mark? No everyone of these birth certificates are issued as male or female. See how easy it is to hide? I don’t know what percentage of births it would take for it to be considered normal but remember god does not make mistakes.

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Being born without arms may be a birth defect and many birth defects can be traced to drugs the mother took while pregnant. Being born with both sets of sex organs can be traced across history defective genes are at fault for some birth defects. Being born with both sets of sex organs can’t be traced to drugs or exposure to chemicals and seems to be a natural variation.

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When I came out of the pits the car was always running. You never shut a race car off once it is on the track. As far as modifying things I built my cars from the ground up. I would start with a body and roll cage and go from there.

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If I was running a biased magazine, I would not make Trump man of the year. Do you think Fox News would ever name Hillary Clinton woman of the year? You know it would never happen.

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If you watch ID you would know it is common. As you watch write down every case that it happens in.

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I was really surprised that a google search would not list the shooting since it had been recent, and both children were shot with the same bullet. The search features on the sites are difficult to use. There are shootings in Charleston almost every night. A woman was shot in the hand and leg last night along with another man at the same location. After she was shot, she got her gun out of her purse and fired at the aggressor as he sped away. I guess she wasn’t shot in her right hand.

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I have noticed some things are difficult to find on the Internet. If something happened after the Internet, it is easy to locate but some things that happened before the Internet are hard to find other than documented history. I’ll see if I can locate the study.
____________________________________________________How could you possibly do a study of gun violence that would not influence the policy on guns? The conclusion by the AMA is that guns are a national health hazard. Any study of gun violence will result in changes the policy on guns.
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1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Quote:

The category is any shooting that injure or kills for or more people period any subsets you may want to create are fine as long as you remember that all of those shootings fall into the major category. You could create a subset of mass shootings that happen on week-ends but they still fall under the major category of mass shootings. You want to change reality by creating subsets and subtracting them from the overall figure.

You are wrong again. The majority category they all fall into is murder, plain and simple. You break down the stats from there.

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It may be complicated world but that does not mean that everything is complicated.

Says the person who thinks there are more than 2 sexes/genders.

Quote:

No, it goes toward motive and religion throughout history has got more people killed than all other motives combined.

I won't disagree with that, but our world has mostly changed, at least for the western world. Religion still seems to be a reason for death in most non-western countries.

Quote:

Stats are only stats and the NRA could say see guns could kill 300,000 a year how fortunate they only 30,000 are killed.

You start talking this way when you have no chance of being correct on gun stats. The NRA has to be brought up as some way of invaliding the data, that's a sure sign the stats are not in your favor.

Quote:

Your defensive stat is questionable. Who collects these stats the NRA. There members just call them in. The police department records murders and shooting injuries but for those that shoot the neighbor boy in the rear with rock salt are not reported.

Talk about defensive... I provided you a link to the pdf that was published in conjunction with the CDC. Don't play games because the stats don't favor your propaganda. Unlike you, I provide the proof I am talking about.

Quote:

When you say, “the truth is not the truth” it reflects the political philosophy of the right. If you can’t hold power by telling the truth than lie like hell and tell people that is the truth.

Says the Socialist who can't admit that Socialism has failed every where it has been tried.

Quote:

I think you may find that people who work in nurseries might dispute the figure and the people involved have a motive to hide the condition.

I think you are making things up to justify a position you can't prove.

Quote:

Do you think birth certificates are issued with a question mark? No everyone of these birth certificates are issued as male or female. See how easy it is to hide? I don’t know what percentage of births it would take for it to be considered normal but remember god does not make mistakes.

It just makes it more difficult to have accurate stats, that doesn't mean there is a missing 4% of the population who was physically born with both sexes. That isn't what we are really talking about anyways, the transpeople issues isn't about those born with both sexes as much as it is they think they were "born into the wrong body". A man with a dick wants to have it turned into a vagina and vise versa for the women. Children are not being given hormone blockers at young ages because they claim to be of the opposite sex.

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Being born without arms may be a birth defect and many birth defects can be traced to drugs the mother took while pregnant.

Please just stop the BS. You can't really believe that can you?

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Being born with both sets of sex organs can be traced across history defective genes are at fault for some birth defects. Being born with both sets of sex organs can’t be traced to drugs or exposure to chemicals and seems to be a natural variation.

A variation that only exists in 1% or less of the population. I'm not concerned with these people, they have a legitimate issue. Wanting to have your penis inverted to make a vagina isn't natural.

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I was really surprised that a google search would not list the shooting since it had been recent, and both children were shot with the same bullet. The search features on the sites are difficult to use.

What site would that be, Google?

Quote:

How could you possibly do a study of gun violence that would not influence the policy on guns? The conclusion by the AMA is that guns are a national health hazard.

It wasn't if the study influenced policy, it was doing the study only to influence policy. Much like you seem to be in favor of doing, the people who passed the Dickey Act were afraid that studies pushed to effect policy wouldn't do a fair job on the study. If the aim was to effect gun laws and the 2nd Amendment only, they wouldn't look at everything, like dismissing DGU in favor of only looking at the harm guns do, they were right to pass such a law as your silly question shows. As I said, before, they were still free to study gun violence, they didn't do it because they couldn't use the data to effect the 2nd Amendment.

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Any study of gun violence will result in changes the policy on guns.

It might but we won't know unless their is a real study done and not one done by anti-gun propaganda groups. As most studies have found, you might not like the results as the studies could point to less gun laws being needed, more Liberty for all.

2 Replies

@Baldimo,

The student father was a trained gun instructor who had trained his son the solution to every problem was to simply blow your problem away with your gun. The gun nut was charged with murder and 2 counts of assault. The trial ended with a hung jury and will be retried. Justice, the judge let him lose with no bail and he is sure to shoot the next person that hits him in the face. It is hard to argue stand your ground when you leave the scene go to your car unlock the glove box and get your gun and return to the scene and shoot everyone in sight. Remember he did not just shoot the fraternity boy that hit him he shot everyone in sight because his gun nut dad trained him to do just that. There had never been a shooting on that campus and guns were banned on that campus. But an exception was made for guns left in the car because of a gun nut judge’s ruling. That is the way America has gone if you get hit in the face or shoved to the ground you are entitled to execute the person and any spectator in the area. The gun in America now takes the place of the police, the judge and the jury When the gun nut’s son goes back to trial, I hope they put him in prison for life and maybe that will teach his dad that guns aren’t the solution to the problem they are the problem. This story was covered on ID I am surprised you missed it.
A 116 years without a shooting on a campus even in the old west when everyone carried a gun there was no shootings on that campus. It tells you a lot about where the NRA is taking America.

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The study in question was done in 1967 and called “The Weapons Effect” it was reviewed in “Psychology Today” January 18, 2013. The study also found that people with a gun in there are more aggressive, they are far more likely to tail gate and give obscene gestures like they are trying to provoke a situation that they can use their gun. Next time you’re on the highway and look back an see some idiot a couple inches from your bumper he no doubt has a gun and wants to target practice on you. It shows beyond any and all doubt that people with guns are looking to provoke a fight they are more aggressive because they have a gun.

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Why not arm grade school kids with guns so when they are pushed to the ground, they can execute the kid that did it. After all, if it is good for adults it should be good for children.

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That is a little old fashion racism in the south if it had been a white man that pushed a black man to the and then he had been shot the black man would not have to worry about the DA he would be lucky to make it to jail. I guarantee you a black man would have been prosecuted and convicted.

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I played a lot of sandlot football as a kid. You got shoved to the ground frequently. I also have not been in a fist fight since high school, but I ran a union that had a number of people that were convicted killers or thieves.
Do you really believe the punishment for pushing somebody down should be death? Then do you believe that anybody should be able to convict and execute them on the spot? Long ago we decided that laws should be enforced by the police for good reason. If you have a grievance call the police otherwise it will just escalate. If black man had fired and killed the white man after the white man shot at him would that be justified, or should the black man not pull his gun? It is just like someone shoplifting should the owner be able to execute them? That happened the other day. Both crimes are misdemeanors. Speeding is a misdemeanor should that old person in the front yard be able to shoot you after all they feel their safety justifiably threatened? These threats just seem to apply to these people with guns after the fact.

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After the man hit the ground the black man could have jumped on him and beat him to a pulp. He could have stomped him and made sure he never got a hold of his gun. He shoved him, but he could have hit him with his fist hard enough to kill him with the first blow, but he didn’t. He just shoved him out of the way.

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He is not asking he has the gun in his pocket and he is being aggressive just as the study shows. He has a gun and he is trying to pick a fight. We have handicap hang tags because my wife has a bad knee a lot of times all the handicap spaces are taken. Sometimes we forget to hang the tag, so it looks like the car parked illegally. Parking places are not that hard to find a few steps away. I usually let her off at the door and then park the car I get out of the car with my triathlon shirt and running shoes and I am sure some people are upset but it allows her to walk to the car afterwards. I am sure I will run into someone like this old man with his gun who will try to bully me one day. I have run into a lot of angry old men over the years who should never have a gun.

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We are a society of laws not guns.
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No matter how many simulations you come up with reality will always be different. It is easy to tell what works and what doesn’t just by the number of policemen being killed rushing into mass murders. The idea is to just send as many targets into the building as fast as you can and wait for the mass murder to get tired of killing them and shoot himself. The idea is not to get the policemen killed.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Quote:

The student father was a trained gun instructor who had trained his son the solution to every problem was to simply blow your problem away with your gun.

Nice bias.

Quote:

It is hard to argue stand your ground when you leave the scene go to your car unlock the glove box and get your gun and return to the scene and shoot everyone in sight.

I agree with you, this doesn't sound like the case of Stand your ground. Not sure what your disagreement with me is on this case, I agreed with you when you first mentioned it.

Quote:

That is the way America has gone if you get hit in the face or shoved to the ground you are entitled to execute the person and any spectator in the area.

When you are an old man and you are shoved to the ground by a much younger and who continues to approach you with closed fists, you have a right to protect yourself.

Did you see this case:
https://abc7ny.com/video-man-beaten-into-coma-during-bronx-robbery/4828128/
Good thing this guy didn't have a gun, he might have hurt the other poor person who was kicking his face in. A guess him in a coma is better than the other guy in a body bag.

Quote:

This story was covered on ID I am surprised you missed it.

I cut the cord several months ago and have been cable TV free since, it was a good decision.

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It shows beyond any and all doubt that people with guns are looking to provoke a fight they are more aggressive because they have a gun.

I would say the amount of guns in the US, and the amount of people killed per year do not agree with the study. They also remove some credibility from themselves when they say "guns kill 31,000" people a year. Guns are intimate objects and have no ability to act on their own. People are evil. You will notice we never address the problem of cars, we address what people do with cars that is bad.

Quote:

Why not arm grade school kids with guns so when they are pushed to the ground, they can execute the kid that did it. After all, if it is good for adults it should be good for children.

This is why no one takes the anti-gun groups or people like yourself seriously when it comes to guns.

Quote:

That is a little old fashion racism in the south if it had been a white man that pushed a black man to the and then he had been shot the black man would not have to worry about the DA he would be lucky to make it to jail. I guarantee you a black man would have been prosecuted and convicted.

It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the age of the people involved. I'll note you were the one who thinks this is about race. If the old man was black and the young man was white, I have no doubt the results of the police investigation would be exactly the same. What's up with you leftist and your obsession with race.

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Do you really believe the punishment for pushing somebody down should be death?

No I don't, it's a shame the man is dead. I can't believe you think it's ok to shove an old man to the ground, regardless of what they said to someone.

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After the man hit the ground the black man could have jumped on him and beat him to a pulp. He could have stomped him and made sure he never got a hold of his gun. He shoved him, but he could have hit him with his fist hard enough to kill him with the first blow, but he didn’t. He just shoved him out of the way.

He had no reason to even touch the man. Stop making it about race and make it about the facts of the case.

Quote:

He is not asking he has the gun in his pocket and he is being aggressive just as the study shows. He has a gun and he is trying to pick a fight. We have handicap hang tags because my wife has a bad knee a lot of times all the handicap spaces are taken. Sometimes we forget to hang the tag, so it looks like the car parked illegally. Parking places are not that hard to find a few steps away. I usually let her off at the door and then park the car I get out of the car with my triathlon shirt and running shoes and I am sure some people are upset but it allows her to walk to the car afterwards. I am sure I will run into someone like this old man with his gun who will try to bully me one day. I have run into a lot of angry old men over the years who should never have a gun.

The difference between you and the young couple is that you wouldn't have responded with violence as the first response. You more than likely would have replied that you had your permit and let it at that, not started a shouting match.

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We are a society of laws not guns.

The law says you are not allowed to touch another person, let alone assault them.

3 Replies

@Baldimo,

The very first case I watched on ID tonight was a woman and her boyfriend being killed with you guessed it her own gun. The mass shooting category stands is useful to measure the ever-increasing gun violence in America. Not everyone has to be killed for it to be a mass shooting.

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Some people will always cling to 2,000-year-old ignorance. The old definition of what makes a man, or a woman are becoming more enlightened. How the sex drive is directed is determined in the brain but there are other physical differences. We had a lesbian that worked at the garage she would throw two 50 lb. bags of oil dry over her shoulders and walk up three flights of stairs. There wasn’t a man in the garage that would do that. When you go into a nail salon you would find men with all the mannerism of a woman with high pitched voices. You will never be able to put people into just two boxes. Taking your figure as accurate that just 1% of the population has both sets of sex organs that means 3,300,000 Americans were born with both sets of sex organs.

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If religion was not under the thumb of government and instead of government being under the thumb of religion as it was a couple of centuries ago religious motivated killings would be the number one motive for murder. Religion hasn’t changed it is that same 2,000-year-old ignorance government made laws that you can’t burn witches in America.

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The NRA is the one trying to block the study of the biggest health hazard in America.
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Your stats are made up of people executing other people for minor transgressions. That is not a good thing.

1 Reply

@Zardoz,

Quote:

The very first case I watched on ID tonight was a woman and her boyfriend being killed with you guessed it her own gun.

I'll have to take you word for it, but a TV program for ratings and interesting cases isn't cause for a "pattern" in crime rates. You haven't proven that this type of crime is common.

Quote:

The mass shooting category stands is useful to measure the ever-increasing gun violence in America. Not everyone has to be killed for it to be a mass shooting.

No it isn't a useful measure, unless your only aim is to restrict gun ownership with propaganda. A family killed in their home does not count as a mass shooting.

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Some people will always cling to 2,000-year-old ignorance. The old definition of what makes a man, or a woman are becoming more enlightened.

There goes the anti-religious argument again. Can you keep on track and debate without the use of religion or anti-religious rhetoric?

Quote:

When you go into a nail salon you would find men with all the mannerism of a woman with high pitched voices. You will never be able to put people into just two boxes.

There are only 2 boxes for humanity to fit into. You either have a penis or a vagina. Anything else is an abnormality or birth defect.

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Taking your figure as accurate that just 1% of the population has both sets of sex organs that means 3,300,000 Americans were born with both sets of sex organs.

That is still a small % of the population and 1% was being generous from what I have read.

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The NRA is the one trying to block the study of the biggest health hazard in America.

I'll agree with their blocking of the studies as long as the anti-gun groups insist that the studies be used to restrict our Constitutional rights. If they only want to study guns in general as opposed to the bias study you want done, I'll support them.

Quote:

Your stats are made up of people executing other people for minor transgressions. That is not a good thing.

Got any proof to back up your claims? I've got a study from 2013, you have nothing but a personal dislike for guns that you want to see enshrined in US Federal law. My facts trump your feelings.

3 Replies

@Baldimo,

Quote:

There goes the anti-religious argument again. Can you keep on track and debate without the use of religion or anti-religious rhetoric?

What is your objection to referring to religious influence in USAmerican culture?

1 Reply

@hightor,

Quote:

What is your objection to referring to religious influence in USAmerican culture?

Why should I have to argue either side of the discussion when the topic at hand has nothing to do with religion?

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

The NRA has done everything in its power to make sure the real truth about guns is hidden from the American people and it is now more corrupt than ever taking the Russian money to try and further corrupt our government. After the people had voted 88 of their merchants of death out of office, they bragged they still controlled enough corrupt senators to confirm enough corrupt judges to keep the blood flowing in the streets of America for years to come. What a team the NRA and the communists make the National Gun Manufactures Associations has been promised that they can open Russia up so there are as many guns in the streets of Russia as America. The National Gun Manufacturer Association has one reason and only one reason to exist, to sell more guns. There are no moral concerns just profit.
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I know of no police department that gather stats on how many time people use a gun for defensive purposes other then police using their guns in criminal situations. I suspect they are simply antidotal where some old lady said I saw a shadow in the back yard last night and fired my shotgun at it. Who confirms their story? I grew up in a community where a old lady grabbed her shot gun when we were picking cherries out of a tree that was clearly in my friend’s yard after the police refused to stop us. That is a gun owner’s idea of a defensive action. Because there are stats doesn’t mean they are right. People make mistakes or have motives to lie. The most effective liars in our society use numbers to back up their lies.

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Would you say that social security, Medicare and Medicaid are failures? Those programs are pure socialism you will find a variation of those programs in every socialist country. Everything to the greediest individuals is not a solution. You can harness nuclear power, but it can melt down and destroy the land for miles around. America has a hybrid government made up of both greed-based solutions (capitalist) and social solutions. Ignorant people like to ignore the socialists features of our government. Look around you friend socialism is alive and well all around you. The older people have some dignity do to social security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Before social security, notice the word, once a husband died his wife was left to eat out of trash can in your beautiful greed-based society where everything is divided up based on greed.

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I don’t need to make things up even using your 1% figure there are 3,300,000 Americans born with both sets of sex organs.

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The point that I was trying to make with those born with both sets of sex organs is that the physical sex and the sexual orientation take place in two different locations in the body. With those born with both sets of sex organs doctors tell the families to wait and see what sex their child identifies with before they consider surgery. Scientist are discovering more each day about sexual orientation and they now believe that sexual orientation is determined during a certain time during pregnancy when the mother’s body supplies a chemical wash to fetus that determines sexual orientation most of the time the sexual orientation and the physical body agree. There but for the grace of god go you.

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Twins are rare would you consider that a birth defect? In effect a mutation of a cell results in two fetuses

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Children are born with a cleft palate is correcting that really any different? It is not natural to correct but we still do it. Throughout history people have been overly concerned about other people sexuality both religions and governments have tried to dictate what sexual activity is acceptable and what is not. Christian missionaries to Africa told the natives that only one sexual position was acceptable, woman on bottom man on top, thus the missionary position.

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Goggle listed the shooting of children in a bed but did not list those both shot with the same bullet. It really surprises me how much can be found with a simple search but every once and a while a search will not return the right article. I did find another article from the Washington Post that stated that almost two dozen children are shot everyday in America while looking for the children shot while bouncing on the bed. One dad in Texas blew away his 3-year-old stepson because he would not stop bouncing on the bed. People with guns are more aggressive. A four-year-old was killed in Cleveland while riding in a car another driver became upset in a road rage incident and fired 8 bullets into the car containing the two children and their mother. The boy was hit near his temple. You can find 24 stories a day about children shot with guns.

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The National Gun Manufacture Associations want to hide the fact that guns are the number one health hazard in America today and they corrupted the political system to make sure it stays hidden. Don’t kid yourself Dickey Act was meant to keep the facts hidden. At no time in history has anything like Dickey Act been even attempted it shows rampant corruption of government by big business.
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The only study that would help the gun lobby is one that showed nobody was shot or injured by a gun in America and that will never happen.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

This is typical gun nut reasoning give an 18-year-old a gun and send him off to interact with other youngsters. What did this gun nut think would happen when his kid got in a fight? He is going to his car to get the gun daddy gave him and even the score and that is exactly what he did.
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This is what happens when you give a teenager a deadly weapon and say now you can decide who lives and who dies. The NRA is upset with retailers who have decided they will no longer sell guns to teenagers. The disagreement between you and me is that you don’t want “any more regulations on gun ownership” because of the slippery slope theory while I recognize that more regulations are necessary. The right to own a gun should never supercede the right for someone to live.

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I viewed the video of the incident from several different cameras. What struck me was that there were at least three parking places much closer to the door including one directly in front of the door. In this case the handicap spaces are on the other side of the building further away because the handicap ramp is at the end of the building instead of the front of the building. The old man could have parked in any of those open spaces but no he had a gun and that made him more aggressive than normal. The old man pulls the gun immediately the black man is backing away when shot. The old man was looking for a fight because there is no reason to pick a fight over a parking place when there are much better places available. The only thing hurt about the old man was his pride and that is why he killed the other man the same reason the college student killed the other college student and wounds two others. I always heard policeman say how they had a different attitude when they have a gun on them.

A gun would not have helped in this situation after the victim was knocked senseless with the first blow. If he had managed to fumble a gun out of his pocket in his addled condition the attacker would have taken it and finished him off. I have seen two many boxing matches where it was all the boxer could do was stand up. If the guy had a gun the attacker might have attacked him to take the gun. Guns are a valuable commodity on the street. All that is necessary is to come up behind him and smack him in the back of the head with a bat. We had someone killed last weekend with one punch. In junior high I was standing in the gym between two double doors a thug that had been held back a couple years bumped me as he and his side kick went out the door. They returned in a few minutes and his side kick said he is giving you a dirty look. He hit me with one of those wild round house punches that slammed my head against the center post between the doors and opened it up. If I had a gun, I could not have shot him. A gun is no protection in a blitz attack because you will not see it coming. Of course, if I had access to gun I could have looked him up and blew him away the next day.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Quote:

Why should I have to argue either side of the discussion when the topic at hand has nothing to do with religion?

You don't "have to" do anything. If you don't think mentioning religion is relevant you can simply ignore the reference.

0 Replies

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