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The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

 
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2018 09:18 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

The intent of the original 1913 income tax law was to tax only income in excess $3,000 ($75,526.88 in today’s dollars.) Income tax was never ever intended to be a tax on the working man. Now the ungodly greedy are jumping up and down because the poor are not pay a tax levied on them. There are many different sources for those facts including Wikipedia: “Taxation History of the United States” There are many sites that will give you the same information.
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It is a big deal because the tax on that $700 would be $70. It is just another bold face lie by Trump. They actually keep track of the number of lies told by Trump and the Washington Post has Trump with over 3,100 lies or misleading statements. The Republicans went nuts when Clinton told one lie saying he could not be trusted to run the country. Where are those Republicans now? Well it seems like lying is now the new “truth.” According Kelly Ann Conway, the president spokesman lies are just alternative facts.
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You still have no concept of how the tax system works. The first tax bracket the 10% bracket is paid by everybody, including Donald Trump, Warren Buffet, and the people working at McDonalds. The first $19,050 of everybody income is taxed at 10%.
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It was the fact that he was fired because he called the Republicans on their tax scam. Ryan took so much heat he had to reverse himself. Don’t get me wrong he should not be there because of the separation of church and state. Ryan wanted to replace him with one of the super ignorant evangelicals.
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I am sure the woman overwhelmed knowing she got a whole $1.50 tax cut a week. Since there was absolutely no cut in the 10% tax bracket she will be lucky to get that $1.50. But Ryan was tickled pink she got that big a tax cut. He was so impressed he posted on Twitter. there are no addition cut in taxes in 2019 so she will continue to get her $1.50.
The source was Paul Ryan himself and he was crowing about the $1.50. Here is another source: Paul Ryan tweet celebrating a woman’s 1’50 a week raise tied to the GOP tax bill”
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TBC. I ran 15K trail race through the pouring rain this evening and I got a late stat.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2018 07:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

I listed the source on Ryan but Trump lies so much and refuses to release his tax returns you can only estimate. What we do know of the six major tax cuts in Republican Tax Scam everyone of them is a major tax cut for Trump. If you take Trump’s financial disclosure he reported an income of $288,000,000 and you apply the 2.6% cut in the top bracket to his income that one tax cut will give him a $7,488,000 cut in his taxes but the big cuts were over 15% on his real-estate holding and 100% write off for business upgrades. Trump got at least a $100 million in tax cuts. Monkeys are much smarter than humans because when one monkey is given a better reward for doing a task the other monkey refuses to do the task. A national strike to overturn the Republican tax scam a few days before the general election would be an excellent idea. A $1.50 for one monkey and a $100 million for another would cause a riot.
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The 50% that believed they are not getting a tax cut simply looked at their pay check when they found they are paying more in taxes or getting a $1.50 they saw the Republican tax scam for what it actually is. When they look at the actual fact that a family with children has to pay more tax not less they realized it was a tax scam. You have no idea how many people are going to pay more taxes under the Republican tax scam. Do you have any idea how many people in American have children and make under $50,000? All of those people will pay higher taxes. It is not hard to calculate if you have children and make less than $50,000 you are going to pay more in taxes.

Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Sun 6 May, 2018 09:16 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

I can see you’re speechless again and your occupation is firing your AR-15.
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There is a posted speed limit and a enforced speed limit the state constitutions are like the posted speed limit everyone knows they are there but they are unlikely to be enforced and if they are they are likely to be overruled by federal law.
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A constitution is a constitution or in some cases a city charter. The city’s constitution determines the type of city government. City manager or Mayor for instance. There is pretty much a defined pecking order. City laws don’t supersede state laws, and state laws do not supersede federal laws.
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In America the supreme court has the last word if it rules your state constitution is in conflict with the federal constitution that is the end of the argument.
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I wasn’t worried about taking the gun state line as much as transporting it. I called the WV authorities not the Ohio authorities.
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The example of what states did in the hundred years after the Civil War would make anybody doubt that states should have the right to abuse the population.
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The Federal has three branches for a reason. The executive branch enforces laws, the legislative branch makes the laws and the supreme court interprets those laws. You can’t be both the enforcer and the granter of rights. If the executive branch oversteps it authority and violates someone’s rights the remedy is to bring suit in court. I do not remember the supreme court decision or a good way to search for it.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 11:15 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I know who voted for Trump. The hayseeds, the people that are ignorant of history, the people who are ignorant political science, the racists, the American Nazis, the Russians and now we know how the Russians paid for Trump’s election.

Once again, your bias is clear for those you disagree with. Everyone's a racist science hater...

Quote:
It seems the massive amount of money the NRA spent to get Trump elected that at least part of the money came from Russia. The NRA was Trump’s biggest campaign contributor.

Facts? Do you have any facts to back this up? I can tell you that the NRA was NOT Trumps biggest donor.


Quote:
It seems like a Russian banker is a lifetime member of the NRA and has set up a chapter in Russia. Meet the Press Daily broke the story today that the NRA is being investigated as a Russian stooge. A good deal of the money to elect Trump came from Russia.

And? Do we need to look into how much each candidate received from outside US sources? I think the money taken by the DNC from foreign sources would shock you to your anti-american core.

Quote:
Most politicians have what they call a home state advantage not Trump. His home town, the people that knew him best, New York. Trump only got 39.5% of the vote in New York City.

Hillary was also the "home town" girl in NY. Remember, she was a carpet bagger from IL...

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Home school children are not socialized with their peer group

That isn't true in the least. A majority of home school kids are very socialized due to activities outside of the home. I can tell you know nothing about home school kids. More bigoted language.

Quote:
. Socialization is as important as other subjects in school.

Socialization in your terms means brain washing by the govt schools, it has nothing to do with learning anything.

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This sets up recipe for a mass murder since most mass murders are loners.

This set's up nothing and you know it. You have a clear bias against anything that isn't condoned and run by the govt. Your a communist and prefer govt control of public life.

Quote:
The Sandy Hook mass murder, Adam Lanza, was home schooled.

And... 1 kid was home schooled. The rest of the school shooters were public school students who attended their schools. It would strike me that the public has more to fear from public school students than home school students.

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Religion is no more than imagination you might as well believe in the ninja turtles. Imagine a world where the main religion was ninja turtles and their followers wanted to make laws according to the ninja turtles stories. Come to think of it, it might be better.

As a communist, you can't have anything that sits above the govt now can you? Can't have the people worshiping a none govt entity now can we.

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Public education is what made America great it not only offered and education but required children to get an education.

Our public education system used to be one of the greatest in the world, that isn't the case any more. Teachers Unions have done a massive disservice to education in the US.

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My sister is a teacher in a southern Republican state with no union but the schools are pretty much the same union or not.

I doubt that, union controlled schools do what the unions want, non-union controlled schools do what the parents and community want.

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When you eliminate a $4,000 personal exemption for a child and replace with an exemption for $10,000 that most parents can't afford it just takes the $4,050 exemption.

You are consistent in your lack of posting facts aren't you. Stop playing "math" games and post the actual facts, instead of your bias opinion on them.

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Private school tuition it is meaningless for the middle class who could never afford it in the first place.

I'm sure you are confusing private schools and charter schools on purpose. We need to release the strangle hold the unions have on our children's education.

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The Republican tax scam takes from poorest to fund Trump’s personal $100,000 million tax cuts.

Keep pushing this BS narrative.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 11:19 am
@Baldimo,

Quote:
Keep pushing this BS narrative.

Communists never give up, don't worry.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 11:29 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
The intent of the original 1913 income tax law was to tax only income in excess $3,000 ($75,526.88 in today’s dollars.) Income tax was never ever intended to be a tax on the working man.

Everyone should be paying taxes, I don't care what the intent was, if you live here, you pay taxes.

Quote:
Now the ungodly greedy are jumping up and down because the poor are not pay a tax levied on them.

The poor actually pay no federal tax, and get more back then what they "pay" in.

Quote:
There are many different sources for those facts including Wikipedia: “Taxation History of the United States” There are many sites that will give you the same information.

I don't care about the 100 year old history, as you have noted, things change.

Quote:
It is a big deal because the tax on that $700 would be $70. It is just another bold face lie by Trump.

I'm sorry if I don't share your views on a "bold face lie", when the media covered for Obama and the ACA and the massive lies they told to pass it. I'm still waiting on my $2,500 a year in savings...

Quote:
You still have no concept of how the tax system works. The first tax bracket the 10% bracket is paid by everybody, including Donald Trump, Warren Buffet, and the people working at McDonalds. The first $19,050 of everybody income is taxed at 10%.

I understand completely how it works and I'm ok with that. Everybody should be paying taxes, I would prefer to see a flat tax, as our system is way over complicated and allows all sorts of people to defraud the govt.

Quote:
It was the fact that he was fired because he called the Republicans on their tax scam. Ryan took so much heat he had to reverse himself. Don’t get me wrong he should not be there because of the separation of church and state. Ryan wanted to replace him with one of the super ignorant evangelicals.

I don't care, more kabuki theater for the leftist masses.

Quote:
I am sure the woman overwhelmed knowing she got a whole $1.50 tax cut a week. Since there was absolutely no cut in the 10% tax bracket she will be lucky to get that $1.50. But Ryan was tickled pink she got that big a tax cut. He was so impressed he posted on Twitter. there are no addition cut in taxes in 2019 so she will continue to get her $1.50.
The source was Paul Ryan himself and he was crowing about the $1.50. Here is another source: Paul Ryan tweet celebrating a woman’s 1’50 a week raise tied to the GOP tax bill”

Once again, I don't care. That lady is living off of the taxpayers anyways, so her salary is paid by the people you scorn.

Quote:
TBC. I ran 15K trail race through the pouring rain this evening and I got a late stat.

Good for you... Rolling Eyes
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 11:36 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I listed the source on Ryan but Trump lies so much and refuses to release his tax returns you can only estimate.

I don't care about Trumps taxes, we have never elected a President based on their tax return.

Quote:
What we do know of the six major tax cuts in Republican Tax Scam everyone of them is a major tax cut for Trump. If you take Trump’s financial disclosure he reported an income of $288,000,000 and you apply the 2.6% cut in the top bracket to his income that one tax cut will give him a $7,488,000 cut in his taxes but the big cuts were over 15% on his real-estate holding and 100% write off for business upgrades. Trump got at least a $100 million in tax cuts. Monkeys are much smarter than humans because when one monkey is given a better reward for doing a task the other monkey refuses to do the task. A national strike to overturn the Republican tax scam a few days before the general election would be an excellent idea. A $1.50 for one monkey and a $100 million for another would cause a riot.

You don't care about other people, you only care what someone has which you don't, it's the typical lefty jealously.

Quote:
The 50% that believed they are not getting a tax cut simply looked at their pay check when they found they are paying more in taxes or getting a $1.50 they saw the Republican tax scam for what it actually is.

What 50%? Once again, you are sorely lacking on the facts side of anything on this discussion.

Quote:
When they look at the actual fact that a family with children has to pay more tax not less they realized it was a tax scam. You have no idea how many people are going to pay more taxes under the Republican tax scam. Do you have any idea how many people in American have children and make under $50,000? All of those people will pay higher taxes. It is not hard to calculate if you have children and make less than $50,000 you are going to pay more in taxes.

Have you tried putting any info into one of the free tax calculators? Nope, you haven't. If you had, you would know what you are saying is a lie. Keep repeating what the MSM tells you to say.

I take that back, even the MSM has stopped with this foolishness, you keep right on keeping on. Until you post some actual facts with some links, I'm not going to continue to debate the tax plan with you.


Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 11:47 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I can see you’re speechless again and your occupation is firing your AR-15.

Without quotes, I don't know what you think I'm speechless about. My occupation is actually a tech support engineer for a hardware storage company. I was in the military about 10 years ago though.

Quote:
There is a posted speed limit and a enforced speed limit the state constitutions are like the posted speed limit everyone knows they are there but they are unlikely to be enforced and if they are they are likely to be overruled by federal law.

You have no idea what you are actually talking about. I have posted several different cases in which the State Constitutions were in fact used to overrule the will of the people, or the majority vote. Don't play games.

Quote:
A constitution is a constitution or in some cases a city charter. The city’s constitution determines the type of city government. City manager or Mayor for instance. There is pretty much a defined pecking order. City laws don’t supersede state laws, and state laws do not supersede federal laws.

You are proving again, that you don't know what you are talking about. Please explain how CA is able to make the moves they are making when it comes to Illegal Immigration and sanctuary cities/states? You tell me how a city can tell the Feds they won't comply with Federal law when it comes to deporting illegal immigrants?

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In America the supreme court has the last word if it rules your state constitution is in conflict with the federal constitution that is the end of the argument.

True, but as has been proven, the SCOTUS doesn't always make the right call. I think there has been times they overstepped their authority and delved into issues that were not allowed by the Constitution.

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I wasn’t worried about taking the gun state line as much as transporting it. I called the WV authorities not the Ohio authorities.

It still disproves that you checked the laws prior to your trip. You disproved your own point on that one.

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The example of what states did in the hundred years after the Civil War would make anybody doubt that states should have the right to abuse the population.

It is a damn shame how the Democrats treated black people in the south.

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The Federal has three branches for a reason. The executive branch enforces laws, the legislative branch makes the laws and the supreme court interprets those laws. You can’t be both the enforcer and the granter of rights. If the executive branch oversteps it authority and violates someone’s rights the remedy is to bring suit in court. I do not remember the supreme court decision or a good way to search for it.

Google is your friend.

Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Mon 7 May, 2018 09:25 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

You are the one who wants to basically eliminate government or claim that government has no right to put limits on rights.
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So you are a big believer in alternative facts because you refuse to believe the real facts. You don’t have to take my word for it Whitaker Chambers' birthday in the White House during baby Bush's term. Whitaker Chambers is one of the modern conservative movement biggest heroes. Reagan awarded Chambers the Presidential Medal of Freedom. You can look up the list of Presidential Medal of freedom Reagan handed out. The FBI records document Whitaker Chambers was communist spy that turned over the plans for our battleships to the communists during WWII that is a documented fact. But Chambers became one of the most celebrated heroes of the modern conservative movement because he testified against one of his contacts, Alger Hiss. You can check the trail records, the news accounts of the time or Whitaker Chambers himself. The cold war meant the communist could no longer be communists so they started the modern conservative movement.
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You don’t get Norquist’s point he wants to destroy the American government once the conservatives destroy the American government the Russians are waiting in the wings. When Norquist says “He wants to shrink the American government to the point he can drag it in the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub” the meaning is very clear. Krushchev said, “That Russia would take over America without firing a shot.”
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The supreme court justice in the case was Oliver Wendell Homes 0ne of the most famous justices of all time. If he was overturned I would be surprised. Your link did not work it just said “Bad title.” The case you cite did not overturn Schenck V United States the article said “doubt was cast on Schenck v United States.” Even under Brandenburg v Ohio unless that speech is directed to inducing or producing imminent lawless action. Do you have any idea what happens when people try to escape fire in a big public building? They run over top of one another. They trample people under foot. There is not a better description “imminent lawless action.”
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Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2018 10:31 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
You are the one who wants to basically eliminate government or claim that government has no right to put limits on rights.

I've never said eliminate govt, that is your own interpretation of limited govt. I don't think the govt has the right to limit our rights, the purpose of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were to prevent just that, it's not my fault you read the Constitution through the colored glasses of Communism.

Quote:
So you are a big believer in alternative facts because you refuse to believe the real facts.

Alternative facts... you man like your thinking that the Constitution limits rights and grants total power to the govt, or how about your "facts" on guns? You are steeped in alt facts.

Quote:
You can check the trail records, the news accounts of the time or Whitaker Chambers himself. The cold war meant the communist could no longer be communists so they started the modern conservative movement.

I've done some reading and you are correct, about Chambers history. I will point out that he like many disillusioned people in their 20's, he thought communism was a good thing. Once he saw the realism of Communism, he "defected" and turned against the USSR. You have a bone to pick with someone who turned their back on the cause, it's the reason you want to smear the guy. Most cults operate the same way, when people speak out against the bad the group does or believes in, they have to go into attack mode. Communism is no different than Scientology.

I'm still not sure how you think Communism could even connect to Republican stance on govt and politics. Communism wants total control of everything and everyone, Religion must be eliminated because it is competition against the state for people's minds. Please explain how lesser govt would foster a belief in total control by govt?

Quote:
You don’t get Norquist’s point he wants to destroy the American government once the conservatives destroy the American government the Russians are waiting in the wings. When Norquist says “He wants to shrink the American government to the point he can drag it in the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub” the meaning is very clear. Krushchev said, “That Russia would take over America without firing a shot.”

You have a deep and total disconnect with what the US govt is suppose to be and what it really is. I can't even begin to imagine how you think those to different philosophies can even come together.

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The supreme court justice in the case was Oliver Wendell Homes 0ne of the most famous justices of all time. If he was overturned I would be surprised. Your link did not work it just said “Bad title.” The case you cite did not overturn Schenck V United States the article said “doubt was cast on Schenck v United States.” Even under Brandenburg v Ohio unless that speech is directed to inducing or producing imminent lawless action. Do you have any idea what happens when people try to escape fire in a big public building? They run over top of one another. They trample people under foot. There is not a better description “imminent lawless action.”

Just stop. You can't face the facts in this case, you keep going back to an even that NEVER took place. The case was about a man speaking out against the US govt and the draft during WWI, it had nothing to do with a movie theater or a fire. It was a BS example that was used to stifle the free speech of a US Citizen. How does speaking out against the govt equal to yelling fire in a theater? It doesn't, the case was overturned and Free Speech and the 1st Amendment won out. Individual Liberty eventually won out over suppression of rights.

Zardoz
 
  4  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2018 09:18 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

You are either pregnant or not. A supreme court decision is either overturned or not. Schenck V United States still stands casting doubt is not the same as overturned. You have a right to have sex but you do not have a right to have sex with a 5-year hold. All rights have limits.
Rand was a communist she came from a communist country. She was educated by the communists. Have you read any of her books that lay out her political philosophy? I have read every word of
“Atlas Shrugged” 1146 pages and carefully marked every passage of Rand’s political philosophy. I have also read her biography. I assume you know the theory behind Judeo. You use your opponent’s own force against them. Rand hated labor unions because they held the power to make a safer work place and see that the employee compensation reflected their contribution. She believed that the ungodly greedy should go on strike and shut the country down if they did not get everything. Like Reagan she believed that the ungodly greedy were entitled to all the wealth of the country and the rest should get only the crumbs that they chose to give them. This is the planned destruction of the American middle class by a Russian. Since Reagan bought the conservatives to power the middle-class standard of living took a huge nose dive. Where the man of the house made the living before now with both spouses working the standard living has gone down. That Russian plan has worked well. You don’t roll in and start a communist party you have to destroy what is there first. Rand objective was destroy America with greed.
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When you talk about never meeting a communist they didn’t like the Republicans not only like communists like Whitaker Chambers they gave him the Presidential medal of Freedom and openly worship not only a communist but a communist spy. If Reagan wasn’t a communist he openly admired a man that gave our top secrets plans for a bombing site that made are bombers far more accurate. Why would Reagan admire this communist spy so much? Isn’t it funny that so many communists landed on the right? It seems the right absolutely loved communists not only Chambers but many more.
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If you were to count cars but then subtract all the cars currently in garages that figure would not tell you how many cars there are. It is the same way with mass shootings if you want an accurate count it is not the place they take place at that we are counting it is simply the mass shootings.
A mass shooting is a mass shooting if a party is going on at a house and a shooter shows up at the party with his AR-15 and kills 20 people it is the same as if he had stopped and the grade school and killed 20 people. Just because he was 200 feet down the street we shouldn’t count it?
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I wish I could remember the first time I encountered that study because it was treated more widely. I am sure it was a psychology book but I have hundred of psychology books in my library. The other book I read recently did not list in the index meaning it will take hours to go back thru it and reread it. I will get there but it may be a while.
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A mass murder may also be a mass shooting but not every mass shooting is a mass murder but they are both a problem.
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You might as well admit it to yourself those assault weapons serve no other purpose other than masculinity symbols.
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If any of the mass murders or serial killers were NRA members I doubt the NRA would tell the truth. You said you did a search of what? The NRA membership roles? I doubt that the NRA membership is public so it would be hard to search. Past mass murders membership would have expired any search would need to be current.
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WV is a rural state with a relative small population of only about a million so that would have little effect on a country of 330 million.
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TBC
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 8 May, 2018 09:24 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
WV is a rural state with a relative small population of only about a million so that would have little effect on a country of 330 million.

Killary must have thought that way about Wisconsin.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2018 11:03 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
A supreme court decision is either overturned or not. Schenck V United States still stands casting doubt is not the same as overturned.

The point stands that Schenck wasn't about a fire or a crowed theater.

Quote:
You have a right to have sex but you do not have a right to have sex with a 5-year hold. All rights have limits.

It's really sad when you try to use an extreme and sick example to try and prove your pointless point. Free speech compared to sex with a minor?

Quote:
Rand was a communist she came from a communist country. She was educated by the communists.

You keep forgetting to add ex- in front of communist.

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Have you read any of her books that lay out her political philosophy?

Yes, I have read both Atlas Shrugged and Fountain Head, you remind me of Ellsworth Toohey.

Quote:
I have read every word of
“Atlas Shrugged” 1146 pages and carefully marked every passage of Rand’s political philosophy. I have also read her biography.

I don't understand how you can read any of her books and walk away with a belief that she is a communist. She stands against such things at every turn. Individual Liberty is what she wrote about, and "collectiveness" is what she wrote against.

Quote:
I assume you know the theory behind Judeo. You use your opponent’s own force against them.

Based on that comment, you would think Rand and other "Communists" would be supporting the labor movement, which was a big supporter of the labor unions in the form of the "Socialists Workers Party", which was founded in 1939... you might want to brush up on reality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(United_States)
The rest of that section if a complete lack of understanding on what your fellow communists want.

Quote:
When you talk about never meeting a communist they didn’t like the Republicans not only like communists like Whitaker Chambers they gave him the Presidential medal of Freedom and openly worship not only a communist but a communist spy. If Reagan wasn’t a communist he openly admired a man that gave our top secrets plans for a bombing site that made are bombers far more accurate. Why would Reagan admire this communist spy so much? Isn’t it funny that so many communists landed on the right? It seems the right absolutely loved communists not only Chambers but many more.

With every post, you expose more and more of your insanity. You forget, it was people like you who sided with the USSR when Reagan was in office. You were favoring real communists while fighting against someone who wanted to see communism fail.

Quote:
If you were to count cars but then subtract all the cars currently in garages that figure would not tell you how many cars there are.

I'm not sure what you are trying to figure out, but this comment doesn't seem to jive with what came after it.

Quote:
It is the same way with mass shootings if you want an accurate count it is not the place they take place at that we are counting it is simply the mass shootings.

So please tell me how you go from counting cars on the road to counting mass killings? This is the flaw in your thinking, you can't even correlate like events with each other. You just want big #'s to stripe the 2nd Amendment from the Constitution.

Quote:
A mass shooting is a mass shooting if a party is going on at a house and a shooter shows up at the party with his AR-15 and kills 20 people it is the same as if he had stopped and the grade school and killed 20 people. Just because he was 200 feet down the street we shouldn’t count it?

How many people are killed in homes by an AR-15? When you look at the murders with these types of weapons, they are very few in comparison to murders with handguns, or even hammers.

Quote:
I wish I could remember the first time I encountered that study because it was treated more widely. I am sure it was a psychology book but I have hundred of psychology books in my library. The other book I read recently did not list in the index meaning it will take hours to go back thru it and reread it. I will get there but it may be a while.

Until you back your "facts" with something, you have no facts, just words on a page.

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A mass murder may also be a mass shooting but not every mass shooting is a mass murder but they are both a problem.

More twisting of phrases? The only purpose for doing so is to confuse the real facts for your lack of facts.

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You might as well admit it to yourself those assault weapons serve no other purpose other than masculinity symbols.

Hahaha. Keep telling yourself that. It strikes me that those who "demean" others, are lacking in the very place they disparage others.

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If any of the mass murders or serial killers were NRA members I doubt the NRA would tell the truth.

See the continued switch of terms and phrases to make a point. You wouldn't have to hear anything from the NRA, the MSM would make sure the public knew an NRA member was involved with a mass shooting. It's part of the propaganda against the 2nd Amendment and those who support it.

Quote:
You said you did a search of what? The NRA membership roles? I doubt that the NRA membership is public so it would be hard to search. Past mass murders membership would have expired any search would need to be current.

I did a search for any news story that would mention that a mass shooter was an NRA member. It's the same thing as with the FL shooter and the 10 round magazines, if the facts don't meet the propaganda, they don't mention it or report on it. It's only the news that is fit to stripe us of our Constitutional Rights.

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WV is a rural state with a relative small population of only about a million so that would have little effect on a country of 330 million.

Is this an attempt to dodge some facts? If 80% of the population of WV owns firearms, it doesn't bode well for averaging out the rest of the country and gun ownership. More people own guns than you think.



Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 May, 2018 09:16 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

It looks like Kucinich lost but he may be the first major candidate to run on banning assault weapons as his platform. I doubt he will be the last. If he had run in FL he would have won.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
What we do know for sure is that the more difficult we make something the less likely it is to happen. These mass murders would be done with fully automatic weapons and no doubt that M-16 are stolen from the army but they are far more difficult to find. The mass murders can simply go to the corner gun store and buy an AR-15 not because that is what they really want but because it is easy to get. An illegal arms dealer could not advertise on E-bay making him harder to find.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Without a universal background check you might as well not bother and let every convicted mass murder and serial killer buy whatever guns they want to slaughter thousands. It is very much like the woman that called to complain that her dog was getting out of her yard after she had a fence put up. The problem she only had a fence put along the front of her yard. There was no fence on either side. The dog was a whole lot smarter than the woman. He simply walked out where there was no fence. That is the type of background check we have. The criminals are a whole lot smarter than the people who designed the background check.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
We always called this the idiots defense every time we encountered it in court. The defendant would argue with the judge telling him he knew of other people who had done the same thing and were not caught and if they got away with it we could not prosecute him. They could have argued they didn't do it but they held that prosecution had to be 100% or nothing. The NRA offers the same argument if every law is not enforced 100% than no new laws should be made. Perfect is an impossible standard using this as a standard is just a road block to stop reasonable gun control laws. Gun laws are simple. Assault weapons bans are reasonable.
____________________________________________________________________________________
In a number of recent mass-murder they released the fact that the mass murder bought his gun legally. The crooked politicians who work for the gun manufacturer made it illegal for the CDC to gather meaningful statistics that could be used for gun control. It would be impossible to remember which mass murderers got their AR-15 legally and which didn't. Since it is so easy to get one legally there is really no need to buy one illegally.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Mass murders and murders done where the motive is jealousy are two completely different animals. Someone that is jealous will kill only the people involved in the love triangle. His pistol was no don't empty when the cop shot him in the back as he was leaving. If the shooter had an AR-15 and was killing everyone in sight the cop would have went the other direction along with the other gun nuts in the area. He would have waited for the Swat Team like they do at other shooting. A shooter with a pistol is not near as lethal.
___________________________________________________________________________________
The particular statistic I came across I thought was for mass murders but when I looked up the second time the statistic it was for mass shootings instead of mass murders but statistic was alarming all the same and deserves to be part of the discussion. That statistic strongly makes a case for stiffer gun control laws. ___________________________________________________________________________________
America's mass murder problem is relatively new as new as the wide spread availability of assault weapons on the streets. As the country tries to deal with the problem we will have to have new terminology to classify the mass murders. Mass murderers have got so much more efficient they keep breaking records. Please list the mass murders of over 50 people done with pistols.
_________________________________________________________________________________
A mass murder is defined as one where four or more people are killed but when 59 people are killed the term mass murder seems wholly inadequate.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2018 12:54 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
It looks like Kucinich lost but he may be the first major candidate to run on banning assault weapons as his platform. I doubt he will be the last. If he had run in FL he would have won.

Keep telling yourself that. The majority of people who want this as their platform, are extreme leftists and won't find enough voters to carry them to a victory.

Quote:
What we do know for sure is that the more difficult we make something the less likely it is to happen.

Correct, the more difficult we make it for people to protect themselves and those around them, the less likely they are to survive such an encounter. Get rid of the "gun free zones" and allowed qualified and trained people to carry on school grounds.

Quote:
These mass murders would be done with fully automatic weapons and no doubt that M-16 are stolen from the army but they are far more difficult to find.

You keep making comments that you have zero proof of. If you knew anything about how the military keeps their weapons, you would know that stealing a gun from the armory is next to impossible. An M-16 goes missing and the whole base goes into lock-down until the weapon is found. I've seen it happen.

Quote:
The mass murders can simply go to the corner gun store and buy an AR-15 not because that is what they really want but because it is easy to get. An illegal arms dealer could not advertise on E-bay making him harder to find.

Your level of transference is quite remarkable.

Quote:
Without a universal background check you might as well not bother and let every convicted mass murder and serial killer buy whatever guns they want to slaughter thousands.

Thousands? You keep getting more and more ridiculous with each post you make. When you can't argue the real facts, you make up your own.
It seems our background check system seems to work just fine for the majority of people who purchase guns. Not sure what your hang-up is with the current system.

Quote:
It is very much like the woman that called to complain that her dog was getting out of her yard after she had a fence put up. The problem she only had a fence put along the front of her yard. There was no fence on either side. The dog was a whole lot smarter than the woman. He simply walked out where there was no fence. That is the type of background check we have. The criminals are a whole lot smarter than the people who designed the background check.

No they aren't. You seem to think a magic background check will prevent people who shouldn't have guns from buying them. Those people will always find the guns they want, an expanded background check system will not phase those people.

Quote:
The NRA offers the same argument if every law is not enforced 100% than no new laws should be made. Perfect is an impossible standard using this as a standard is just a road block to stop reasonable gun control laws. Gun laws are simple. Assault weapons bans are reasonable.

The problem with your lack of argurment is that the NRA is partially correct. Why create new laws when the current laws are not followed? There is no common sense in the current push for expanded gun laws. You can produce no facts or links to prove anything you have said.
Your veiws would leave the crooks with the guns and the law biding citizens at their mercy. You don't care about that, you want to see citizens dead at the hands of crooks.

Quote:
In a number of recent mass-murder they released the fact that the mass murder bought his gun legally.

They sure did, no illegal purchases have been linked to any mass shootings, except the for the Muslim guy and his wife who opened fire on his co-workers, he got his gun from his neighbor and illegally modified it for use in the shooting. Hell, the lady was even in the country under false papers and had lied to immigration officials.

Quote:
The crooked politicians who work for the gun manufacturer made it illegal for the CDC to gather meaningful statistics that could be used for gun control.

We had a study done in 2013, per a EO/EA from Obama. You should read the CDC study, it will prove a majority of what you say about guns is false. The rest of your comments are nothing but personal bias against the 2nd Amendment. We should not be investing in studies that are going to be used to infringe on the Constitution.

Quote:
It would be impossible to remember which mass murderers got their AR-15 legally and which didn't. Since it is so easy to get one legally there is really no need to buy one illegally.

More of your BS? It might be impossible to remember which ones, but if the media does their jobs, you wouldn't have to remember anything.

Quote:
Mass murders and murders done where the motive is jealousy are two completely different animals. Someone that is jealous will kill only the people involved in the love triangle. His pistol was no don't empty when the cop shot him in the back as he was leaving. If the shooter had an AR-15 and was killing everyone in sight the cop would have went the other direction along with the other gun nuts in the area. He would have waited for the Swat Team like they do at other shooting. A shooter with a pistol is not near as lethal.

More personal opinion based on your lack of understanding police procedures and a bit of intellectual dishonesty thrown in for good measure?

Quote:
The particular statistic I came across I thought was for mass murders but when I looked up the second time the statistic it was for mass shootings instead of mass murders but statistic was alarming all the same and deserves to be part of the discussion. That statistic strongly makes a case for stiffer gun control laws.

That same non-existanct facts you keep talking about but can't provide? Keep trying dude.

Quote:
America's mass murder problem is relatively new as new as the wide spread availability of assault weapons on the streets.

This is where facts get in the way of your BS. The AR-15 has been available to people in the US since it was created back in the late 1960's. To say they are a problem now isn't being honest about the problem. We have more people with mental issues, the guns are not the problem.

Quote:
As the country tries to deal with the problem we will have to have new terminology to classify the mass murders. Mass murderers have got so much more efficient they keep breaking records. Please list the mass murders of over 50 people done with pistols.

So now you want to pick and choose stats to talk about? Until you can provide even one link of proof for anything you have said, I'm done with doing all the foot work for your lazy ass.

Quote:
A mass murder is defined as one where four or more people are killed but when 59 people are killed the term mass murder seems wholly inadequate.

Control the language and you control the debate? Make up new words that will scare people into giving away their Constitutional rights. Only the left works in such a way. The left is never about freedom, it's about the power to control the people. Its the main reason they concentrate so heavy in ID politics. When you can divide the people by their sexuality or skin color, they loose track of the overall picture and become single issue voters, just like those lame ass people who only vote for someone based on the stance on abortion.


If you want this to continue, you will have to start providing some facts and links for what you claim. This entire thread is empty of facts, just your mad ravings.








Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2018 07:18 pm
@coldjoint,
Coldjoint

Some gamblers are skilled and not all gambling is a game of chance.
According to Wikipedia spontaneous abortions take place in 30% to 50% of pregnancies. You can clearly see that god is by far the biggest abortionist. Some women may actually have had thousands of spontanious abortions without being aware of it.

0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2018 07:27 pm
@coldjoint,
Coldjoint

Spontaneous abortion is defined as: When an abortion (or miscarriage) takes place by itself, without any outside aid, we call it a spontaneous abortion.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2018 09:09 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

I am not biased against organized religion I am just not taken in by it. A priest tried to talk my parents in to sending me to Catholic school and said that if they did I would be his for life. I luckily escaped who knows what. It might have been interesting though when I started shooting their fantasies down.
____________________________________________________
The hardcore anti-abortionist claim life begins at conception and fought the day after pill just as if it were abortionist. The earliest premature baby to survive was 5 months one week and you can bet that was a million-dollar baby that took many people and every advance of medical science in the last 100 years to keep it alive.
____________________________________________________
You didn’t know that god is responsible for everything? Surely you don’t think zygotes have free will? No, I have not been to church service in 50 years but the anti-abortionist use religion as a justification for taking control of women’s bodies. I think your afraid that somebody will take your AR-15 imagine if someone could dictate what you could do with your internal organs.
___________________________________________________
What term a mother uses is irrelevant because the factual name is fetus. Americans have always prided themselves on their freedom but give them a chance and they will band together to take the freedom of others. Nobody is going to make the anti-abortionist get an abortion so why take the basic right of control over one’s body from others? Where would you draw the line where the antiabortionist take control of women’s bodies?
_________________________________________________________________________________
There are arguments that you can’t answer and it is easier to avoid them. Sperm is not only alive it is mobile. It is alive is the corner stone of their argument but yet they ignore the poor sperm which is alive and they kill millions with birth control.
____________________________________________________________________________________
If it is alive and that is the definition they count then all life is sacred and deserves the same respect.
____________________________________________________
It is hard for discussions to stay right on track but I simply reply to what you have posted.
____________________________________________________
The most basic right in the world is the right to control your own body that the Republicans are trying hard to take away. Many abortions were done at home and they were not medical procedures. So many women died by illegal abortions so abortions were made legal to keep all these women from dying.
___________________________________________________
Some abortions are medical procedures there is always the trusty coat hanger.
___________________________________________________
Yes and Christian still treats women as property because it is based on the structure of society 2,000 years ago and what it does is keep those 2,000 year old ides a live and mainstream them.
____________________________________________________
No there is absolutely no comparison between female teachers and preachers who molest. Molesters are overwhelmingly male. Ninety-six of the sexual assault reported in 1999 involved male predators. (Female offenders Driven by More Than Sex.”) I have a book about the investigation into the sex scandal in the Catholic sex scandal in one instance a juvenile bed was surrounded by six catholic priests each with their tool in hand. What goes on in religious cults is hard to believe this book was based on grand jury investigation.
___________________________________________________________________________________
I can understand that if you are racists you might be bigot. Disliking black people simply because they are black and they have done nothing wrong is one thing. But if you dislike a black Catholic Priest because he was a child molester you would not be a bigot. Likewise, if you have a group of ignorant cultists who were spreading their ignorance across America it has nothing to do bigotry and everything to do with their ignorance.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2018 11:18 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
I am not biased against organized religion I am just not taken in by it. A priest tried to talk my parents in to sending me to Catholic school and said that if they did I would be his for life. I luckily escaped who knows what. It might have been interesting though when I started shooting their fantasies down.

Yes you are biased against religion.

Quote:
The hardcore anti-abortionist claim life begins at conception and fought the day after pill just as if it were abortionist.

You are not going to get me to argue in favor of comments and beliefs that are not mine.

Quote:
The earliest premature baby to survive was 5 months one week and you can bet that was a million-dollar baby that took many people and every advance of medical science in the last 100 years to keep it alive.

And...

Quote:
You didn’t know that god is responsible for everything?

I don't think God is responsible for everything. Did you conveniently miss the point where I said I wasn't a Christian, that would require a belief that Jesus rose from the grave... I hold no such faith.

Quote:
Surely you don’t think zygotes have free will?

Free will or not, it will still grow to be a human and not another life-form. I do find it funny how you want exacting language on the abortion debate but refuse to to use such exacting language in the gun debate. Why is that?

Quote:
No, I have not been to church service in 50 years but the anti-abortionist use religion as a justification for taking control of women’s bodies.

You haven't been to a church in 50 years, but you know what they talk about? You must be some sort of magician...
Abortion is a single subject in the form of "woman's rights". I only put that in quotes due to the fact that women have the same exact rights as men.

Quote:
I think your afraid that somebody will take your AR-15 imagine if someone could dictate what you could do with your internal organs.

I'm already told what I can and can't do with my internal organs. I can't sell a kidney to someone, I can't partake in any medical testing I want to, the govt restricts all sorts of medical research and won't allow people who are dying to try experimental cures. If you want to talk about what you can do with or without your own body, lets apply it to things that effect everyone, abortion isn't in trouble in this nation any time soon.
So the question for you is, if the majority vote against abortion, should abortion be illegal?

Quote:
What term a mother uses is irrelevant because the factual name is fetus.

But the majority of people refer to them as babies, as you have noted before, the majority rules.

Quote:
Americans have always prided themselves on their freedom but give them a chance and they will band together to take the freedom of others

Which is why we do not run this country purley on "majority rule". All things must pass muster with the Constitution, we are a Constitutional Republic.

Quote:
. Nobody is going to make the anti-abortionist get an abortion so why take the basic right of control over one’s body from others?

Once again, you are using abortion as the be all and end all of women's rights. I have already explained how the subject is much broader than abortion. Take a step back and drop the leftist propaganda.

Quote:
Where would you draw the line where the antiabortionist take control of women’s bodies?

Abortion isn't an important issue to me. I don't care what takes place, but as you have been very fond of saying in the gun debate, rights are limited and are not absolute. Except it seems to have an abortion...

Quote:
There are arguments that you can’t answer and it is easier to avoid them.

Once again, a lack of providing my quotes makes it difficult to follow along when you play games like this.

Quote:
Sperm is not only alive it is mobile. It is alive is the corner stone of their argument but yet they ignore the poor sperm which is alive and they kill millions with birth control.

Once again, I'm not going to defend any type of arguments put forth by other people on a subject that means very little to me. You should concentrate on the things I have actual said instead of trying to hold me into account for others.

Quote:
If it is alive and that is the definition they count then all life is sacred and deserves the same respect.

They... I don't care about they, why do you insist on asking me questions about other people's comments?

Quote:
It is hard for discussions to stay right on track but I simply reply to what you have posted.

No, you fail to provide the words I used. Learn to use the quote function, stop being lazy.

Quote:
The most basic right in the world is the right to control your own body that the Republicans are trying hard to take away. Many abortions were done at home and they were not medical procedures. So many women died by illegal abortions so abortions were made legal to keep all these women from dying.

Facts? Links to anything you have said here? Besides, I don't want to make abortion illegal. As I noted, if "personal control" of ones body is your primary concern, then broaden the meaning to all medical procedures regardless of risk to the patient. If they want to try it, who are you or the govt to say no?

Quote:
Some abortions are medical procedures there is always the trusty coat hanger.

Tons of those here in the US over the last 40 years and 54 million abortions...

Quote:
Yes and Christian still treats women as property because it is based on the structure of society 2,000 years ago and what it does is keep those 2,000 year old ides a live and mainstream them.

I don't think you have any understanding of current religion.

Quote:
No there is absolutely no comparison between female teachers and preachers who molest.

Only if you want to demonize one group and not the other due to your own bias.

Quote:
Molesters are overwhelmingly male. Ninety-six of the sexual assault reported in 1999 involved male predators. (Female offenders Driven by More Than Sex.”) I have a book about the investigation into the sex scandal in the Catholic sex scandal in one instance a juvenile bed was surrounded by six catholic priests each with their tool in hand. What goes on in religious cults is hard to believe this book was based on grand jury investigation.

They had some pretty sick fuckers running the Catholic church over the last few decades. In my opinion, it reflects on the people and not the religion, maybe they should allow priests to marry?

Quote:
I can understand that if you are racists you might be bigot. Disliking black people simply because they are black and they have done nothing wrong is one thing. But if you dislike a black Catholic Priest because he was a child molester you would not be a bigot. Likewise, if you have a group of ignorant cultists who were spreading their ignorance across America it has nothing to do bigotry and everything to do with their ignorance.

No, it is your bigotry at work. Your overall opinion of religion is where it comes to play. You can hate child molesting priests all you want, but your hate of religion doesn't stop there, it expands to all of the Christian faith. Does it extend to the rest of the worlds major religions, Islam and Judaism?


Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2018 09:22 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo

Forty years ago, the union had a healthy treasury but when the WV council was established they had the union dues sent directly to them and returned a few hundred to the local barely enough to pay rent on the union hall. Most of the local union dues go to the international and the state council. Buying politicians from local dues is out of the question. A hundred here or there would be a big political contribution.
____________________________________________________
At the time the Federal government routinely returned part of the Federal taxes that had been collected which made sense. The cities depended on the money to make payroll. In Huntington a million was allocated to Police Department and a million to the Fire Department. The total budget was $6 million so when Reagan took the money to cut the ungodly greedy taxes from 70% to 28% it was a disaster. The city never recovered.
____________________________________________________
The writers of the second amendment in 1791 could not see into the future. They couldn’t even imagine something like an AR-15 let alone grant a right to one.
____________________________________________________
We have a Federal Drug Enforcement Administration for one reason to enforce drug laws across the country.
____________________________________________________
It is up to each generation to take their place in politic.
___________________________________________________
If I had been paid on a percentage of what I bought in I would have been paid muck better. It has been almost 40 years since Regan tried to destroy the cities across America and Federal Revenue Sharing has been replaced by regressive local taxes. It shifted the tax burden from the ungodly greedy to the poor and middle class.
____________________________________________________
All rights must have limits.
____________________________________________________
You cannot have a generic term for something you can’t imagine in your wildest dreams. But government is always better armed. Government was better armed then and it is better armed now.
____________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Have you ever heard of an election? Elections decide who will serve in government and who will not. It is the majority who rule.
Alexis de Tocqueville was French and was studying the country after the fact his opinions while important to him but they were after the constitution was written in the century before.
____________________________________________________
You never had the right to weapons designed for mass murder. Weapons that are designed to fire 400-600 rounds a minute have no place in the streets.
____________________________________________________
You can neve make a law that grants a right to things that you can’t imagine.
____________________________________________________
When any government decides it can take control of internal body functions of it population regulating guns should be no problem.
____________________________________________________
The tipping is past and we will see what happens now that the NRA is in bed with the Russians.
____________________________________________________
You need only look at the Las Vegas mass murder and the pulse Night Club mass murder to realize how deadly assault weapons are without the three parts that make them fully automatic.
____________________________________________________
All shot guns have common characteristic or they would not be classified as shot guns.
____________________________________________________
The mass murders have already settled the argument and you can tell by the numbers of bodies they have piled up.
____________________________________________________
The mass murders have made the argument against assault weapons and you can never refute it.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
All anyone needs to know about the NRA is how they launder Russian money for the Trump campaign.
____________________________________________________
Saying they are going to take all guns is just an NRA scare tactic to frighten the stupid. There will always be guns just not those that are designed to fire 400-600 rounds a minute.
____________________________________________________
No lie, there is an actual bill passed by NRA owned politicians that prohibited the CDC from gather statistic that could be used to control guns
TBC
 

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