19
   

How would you fix the U.S Government?

 
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 07:05 am
The first thing we do is get rid of Obungo. Then we pact with ourselves as freedom loving Americans to ignore the left when they whine and moan while rounding up their "victims" for show and tell.

Next thing we do is cut government by 2/3. Reduce the pensions by 1/3 and make double dipping illegal.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 08:39 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

if a straightforward democracy (everyone votes on two sides of a matter) were a world thing, then it would definitely give rise to conflict. however, as a smaller, more individualistic government, like, for a small town, it would probably work out. what i would propose as an alternative would be a blend between the two. think of an upside tree diagram. lots of little groups vote on a matter,and what ever side is passed moves up to a representative to vote on that side of it, and what ever that decides the representative of that group votes in favor of, and so on. sorry if this is a bit unclear. just ask what you dont understand, and il try to clarify.

The conflict is natural, since all self interest at some point conflicts with another's view of self interest... It is the task of government to reduce and eliminate that conflict, but our government such as it is: Partocracy has united to manage government, and that meant fixing the numbers of representatives...In order to maintain party control they have divided their districts through gerrimandering... This has left the people powerless and made the representatives powerful... But worst of all, our essential conflicts have not been resolved as governments should do, but rather, the blame is put on the other party and those who support it for the failures of government... They have not resolved conflict, but to maintain their power they have fed conflict at every opportunity until now, it often sweeps them out of office while making all people dissatisfied with the course of government...

The people do not deserve bad government and they are not entitled to good government... Government should do what they, the people want, and if they change their minds, then government should change to suit them...What my divided district does is offer my representative cover, meaning that he is free to do as he decides... If He goes against his party, as he never does, then he can claim principals... If he goes against me, he can claim to voice the will of the majority...

Suggestion: If his district is divided along party lines then send two representatives, each with that portion of the single vote now cast... In fact, for every representative we have now we should be sending many, and they could fight things out with fists and cane and guns as far as I am concerned; but to lead us only into the hatred of our fellow citizens when they should be leading us out of such feeling is clearly wrong, and a failure of government, and the government's stated goals...

Aristotle said governments are created for good, and Jefferson agreed with him... Where is the good in our division over issues that often are in no sense the point of government to pursue??? Unity is a stated goal of our government; and perfect union to be exact... We would have stood a chance at that if representatives were as numerous in ratio as our forefathers enjoyed... They were more satisfied witht their democracy than we only because they had some of it, and we have only a fraction of what they enjoyed... We look at our neighbors as the reason our system does not work when, if it did work we would find natural allies in our neghbors...
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 04:31 pm
@Fido,
"Suggestion: If his district is divided along party lines then send two representatives, each with that portion of the single vote now cast... In fact, for every representative we have now we should be sending many, and they could fight things out with fists and cane and guns as far as I am concerned; but to lead us only into the hatred of our fellow citizens when they should be leading us out of such feeling is clearly wrong, and a failure of government, and the government's stated goals..."
they arent really representatives. what that group decides basically voiced by the representative. that representative is part of the next tier, and what ever the majority of that tier decides is voiced by ITS representative, and so forth. really, if more than one person was sent to vote, the power of the individual citizen goes down.
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2011 08:03 pm
The country should immediately nationalize the oil companies.

There is no free market relative to the companies. The prices are fixed by OPEC and, being no real competition, they have no relationship to reality.

I understand that most countries have nationalized the oil industry.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:03 am
@Advocate,
or we could just tax the hell outa them...
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:14 am
@Advocate,
Wrong
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:14 am
@hamilton,
Also wrong
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:16 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

"Suggestion: If his district is divided along party lines then send two representatives, each with that portion of the single vote now cast... In fact, for every representative we have now we should be sending many, and they could fight things out with fists and cane and guns as far as I am concerned; but to lead us only into the hatred of our fellow citizens when they should be leading us out of such feeling is clearly wrong, and a failure of government, and the government's stated goals..."
they arent really representatives. what that group decides basically voiced by the representative. that representative is part of the next tier, and what ever the majority of that tier decides is voiced by ITS representative, and so forth. really, if more than one person was sent to vote, the power of the individual citizen goes down.
Where in the constitution does it say that power for the individual citizen is the goal of government??? How else can bad government be avoided but by having many representatives???

When the house of representatives fixed their number for the last time their argument was to make the house more manageable... In fact, it made each representative more powefulr, and the house a version of the Senate, though only more representative... This greater power, shared by the representative and his party has been robbed from the institution and from the people... In the end, it does not matter what is passed as law by government, but that everybody, or nearly everybody has a voice in government, and it is hard to argue for the individual power of anyone if year after year they must suffer sinding some one to government who clearly is not acting in their best interest...It is possible do divide districts of 600K+ citizens, and districts are constructed to give one party a slim majority so that the majority does not become too powerful either, and we see reprentatatives being beat out in the primary stage because of the radicalization of the people.. The people feel the need for radical and near militant activity out of the desire to get government to be responsive at all... The solution is not more radical members in congress, but more members...

If you take 30K people from the same contiguous area, the chances that they will differ to any degree on fundamental issues is slight... What does it matter if a neighboring district sends an opposite character to government??? The object is to let reason rule our conduct, and to send a single rep in place of two, or many ensures that conflict will be buried rather than discussed, and that little reason will be brought to bear where now politics alone dominate... We revolted for lack of representation in government... If I am unrepresented by the representative of this district, then who can I get to represent me but some one from another district who may represent the party of my choice??? Yet; such representation must be bought, and if I am steering him away from the interests of his district to serve my interest that my representative is not serving, the how is the goal of good government served???

If we sent reprentatives to congress at the same ratio as our forefathers did, I think we might be sending over 7K reps... Now, we know it might be a mad house, but even in a stadium holding 70K, or more, people leave in agreement over who won the game... It does not matter on every issue who wins or loses so much as whether the views of all were represented because in the reconciliation of interests it is reason that shows its point; and money, and party, and politics are not one of themselves reason or reasonable... We should in the ideal send representatives from small districts, 30K approximately, with nearly 100% support so we can be certain he will do as we demand... But then we would be forced to send people both reasonable and articulate to congress who could fairly represent our side of any issue before congress... Acting in this fashion would also increase the supply which should lower the price of each individual representative below the value of his virtue to him... As it stands, we send new people to congress fully aware that they will be corrupted, and they should because the sum there offered are beyond any normal dream of avarice...

The bottom line is that we cannot expect representative government or even good government to result from huge and deeply divided districts... Those few we send will not be governed by reason, but by money and this does not make them more powerful, nor does it make any average individual citizen powerful... The anger we see, like the obvious failures of government, grows out of the deliberate frustration of millions who must suffer year after year without representation of their choice... The majority in any district are not any more powerful than the minority, because once they have served their purpose of electing one to bathe in a pool of corruption they have served their purpose, and must be contented with the result... But no one is served by government, and no one of either party is contented... We are all ruined by government that has us over a barrel... It is like having a hold of a hog that no one could dare let go of... Even those who hate it feel they must live with it... That is not good government...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:26 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

The country should immediately nationalize the oil companies.

There is no free market relative to the companies. The prices are fixed by OPEC and, being no real competition, they have no relationship to reality.

I understand that most countries have nationalized the oil industry.
All wealth should be taxed and returned to the commonwealth... Hereditary wealth has no more to recommend it to the world than hereditary government, but the result is the same, that the course of government is bent to serve a certain class at the expense of all others until the others are ruined, invaded, or they revolt...

We could trim the worst excesses and criminality out of our economy just by ending hereditary wealth, for there are very many who now would commit any crime even and up to murder for their generations unborn who would not do a single injury to anyone for their own benefit...If you told every millionaire now that all their money and wealth would return to the commonwealth at their deaths, within their life times they would put it to good use, making friends for their children and improving the world their children must live in... To make the world secure for their children now makes the whole country and world insecure... We all need enough of security, and enough of all moral forms and values, and too little of these makes for a terrible world...
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:32 am
@Fido,
Nope.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 06:57 am
@H2O MAN,
DOPE!
hamilton
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 07:56 am
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

"Suggestion: If his district is divided along party lines then send two representatives, each with that portion of the single vote now cast... In fact, for every representative we have now we should be sending many, and they could fight things out with fists and cane and guns as far as I am concerned; but to lead us only into the hatred of our fellow citizens when they should be leading us out of such feeling is clearly wrong, and a failure of government, and the government's stated goals..."
they arent really representatives. what that group decides basically voiced by the representative. that representative is part of the next tier, and what ever the majority of that tier decides is voiced by ITS representative, and so forth. really, if more than one person was sent to vote, the power of the individual citizen goes down.
Where in the constitution does it say that power for the individual citizen is the goal of government??? How else can bad government be avoided but by having many representatives???


im sorry, i thought we were trying to fix the government. fix is to change, so the current constitution is immaterial. what i am saying is not. if the citizens didnt want any power, then we would have something other than a democracy. im only making that democracy better.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:19 am
@hamilton,
Negative.

The fix calls for a return to the constitution and a return to our being a constitutional republic.
A 'democracy' is something to be feared and avoided.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:19 am
@Fido,
OBAMA!
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:21 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Negative.

The fix calls for a return to the constitution and a return to our being a constitutional republic.
A 'democracy' is something to be feared and avoided.

thats arguable...
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:22 am
@hamilton,
No, if the aim is to fix the U.S. Government it isn't.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:23 am
@H2O MAN,
when people have their own ideas of whats best for something, then they cant really prove each other wrong...
in my opinion, i ought to be in charge, but, apparently few (if any) would agree with that. everyone deep down inside thinks that they know whats best.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 08:30 am
@hamilton,
If we stick with the constitution your concern evaporates.
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 12:40 pm
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

Fido wrote:

hamilton wrote:

"Suggestion: If his district is divided along party lines then send two representatives, each with that portion of the single vote now cast... In fact, for every representative we have now we should be sending many, and they could fight things out with fists and cane and guns as far as I am concerned; but to lead us only into the hatred of our fellow citizens when they should be leading us out of such feeling is clearly wrong, and a failure of government, and the government's stated goals..."
they arent really representatives. what that group decides basically voiced by the representative. that representative is part of the next tier, and what ever the majority of that tier decides is voiced by ITS representative, and so forth. really, if more than one person was sent to vote, the power of the individual citizen goes down.
Where in the constitution does it say that power for the individual citizen is the goal of government??? How else can bad government be avoided but by having many representatives???


im sorry, i thought we were trying to fix the government. fix is to change, so the current constitution is immaterial. what i am saying is not. if the citizens didnt want any power, then we would have something other than a democracy. im only making that democracy better.
Whether one considers it RE-form, or revolution, the best idea is to take everything of value from the past into the future and let dust and worm **** bury the rest... The problem is that our forefathers feared democracy, and put every impedement into the way of democracy, and only threw to the people the bone of the house of reps, but even that has been taken from us bit by bit...They thought with a majority of some sort to pull the rest along, but this has led to much injustice and war and misery until we must have democracy if we will have justice and security... Majority rule is not democracy, and democracy is not fast, but it is sure to bring the most people in the best shape into the future... Our society is leaving to many behind, and while the banks do well the people do ever less well... We cannot continue the situation as it is, and though the choice is a difficult one it is one we must make, whether it is called reform, or revolution... And revolution is only a change of one form for another, and I do agree that democracy and all it means would be a revolutionary change in this society... We should remember that when ever capitalism wants to introduce a new product in the most exciting way, it calls the product revolutionary, meaning: Good! Only in politics and economics is revolution styled a bad thing... It is only bad through the force of reaction... It is when kings and lords have invited neighbors to help defend their tyranny against their own people that their heads went on the chopping block... Were it not for counter revolution there would need be no violence at all in revolution...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 May, 2011 12:42 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Negative.

The fix calls for a return to the constitution and a return to our being a constitutional republic.
A 'democracy' is something to be feared and avoided.
Never has a person been so ably painted by his own few words... You are an enemy of the people... That was the olgarchic oath according to Aristotle: I will be an enemy of the people...
0 Replies
 
 

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