Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

@joefromchicago,

But, Joe. Being forced against your will to join and support a group who you disagree with vehemently is just wrong. I've never experienced anything similar to this. It's akin to making me join the KKK.

2 Replies

@parados,

The union has nothing to do with giving me the skills I need to teach students. You're being ridiculous.

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@Cycloptichorn,

I was educated and student taught in a state where there is no teachers' union. They're pay rate is great.

I'm transplanted to ******* Siberia, where unions strongarm teachers to join. I don't owe them ****.

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@Fido,

I think you're on acid. I never can get why you do such a tortured, unrelated history blurb with all your responses.

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@Lash,

Belonging to the union is a requirement to teach in Ca just like going to school for the skills is a requirement.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Quote:

But, Joe. Being forced against your will to join and support a group who you disagree with vehemently is just wrong.

You weren't forced to teach. No one held a gun to your head.

Why should someone be forced to take certain classes to teach if they are opposed to learning? Why would that prevent them from teaching?

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http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/118047994.html

Quote:

Walker is touring Wisconsin to promote his budget solution and declare the state “open for business.”

But the funny part of his tour to promote his budget is he is being discreet about where he goes.

Quote:

These days, routine political stops call for heavy security and last-minute public notifications to outfox protestors.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

BULL ****. You owe them a great deal, and are incredibly ungrateful. I'm actually shocked by your attitude here. Pretty much everything that relates to your level of pay and workplace safety, your 5-day a week job and your ability to even complain at all about anything that goes wrong at work - you owe to unions.

I guess it's pretty obvious you're not a history teacher, Lash. Because you don't seem to know **** about how things got to be the way they are in this country. It would be like me saying, 'I owe the military nothing. After all, they've never saved MY life or done anything for me at all.' It ignores all historical context.

Cycloptichorn

Well I suppose I owe the assembled Norman Nobles at Runnymede for imposing the Magna Carta on their reluctant king too. However, that is not an argument for the retention of a nobility based on birth.

My company has never had any union represented employees and hopefully never will. Despite that, we too have a five day week, 12 paid holidays/year, excellent health & dental benefits, 401K and employee stock plan and competitive salaries for our industry. We enjoy very low employee turnover, high productivity and above industry average profitability.

I believe teachers were generally held in higher esteem in the public eye before they became unionized. The AFT and the NEA are the principal forces opposing innovation and rewards for excellence in our public schools, and increasingly the public understands that.

1 Reply

@Lash,

The citizens of California decided that they could set requirements before you can teach in their state.
The citizens of California also decided that they could set the rules about who could work and under what conditions.
The citizens of California decided that the conditions of working include joining a union if the majority of workers want a union.

The requirement to join a union was set by the same people that set other rules for your employment.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Lash wrote:
Unions did have an important purpose a few decades ago.

Does anyone genuinely believe that, if unions disappeared tomorrow, employers wouldn't go back to the same kind of practices that they used in the Gilded Age the day after tomorrow?

I believe there is ample evidence out there that they would not. Most of our private sector industry operates happily without union infestation - certainly the most innovative and productive parts. You don't have to look hard to find the evidence, Joe.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

The citizens of California decided that they could set requirements before you can teach in their state.
The citizens of California also decided that they could set the rules about who could work and under what conditions.
The citizens of California decided that the conditions of working include joining a union if the majority of workers want a union.

The requirement to join a union was set by the same people that set other rules for your employment.

That is certainly all true. And by similar processes the citizens of Ohio and Wisconsin have removed this requirement for many of their public workers. About 20 states have an even better system with right to work laws for everyone. They have suffered fewer job losses partly as a result.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I think you're on acid. I never can get why you do such a tortured, unrelated history blurb with all your responses.

Only because you for one are stupid, and do not know history, or that rights are defended collectively... You have individual rights because many people were willing to fight and die for your rights, but you would piss them away because you think they just are, and exist as things in them selves...

Empoyers are too smart for the likes of you because they have the sense to sublimate their individuality for wealth and success... What people like you get is the theory of the individual, which is nonsense, but it must be something because you give up wealth, rights, success, and even survival for it..... Why not just wear a big sign on your shirt saying I am too retarded to be organized...

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Belonging to the union is a requirement to teach in Ca just like going to school for the skills is a requirement.

People do not form unions because they have nothing to do or because they are fun to belong to... Unions exist because they are necessary even when they fall far short of what union would and could accomplish if they embraced everyone... That the fail is a good excuse to not belong to them, but nothing else besides the unions stand in the way of complete slavery... Without organization no working people would have any hope, even false hope... Look at the situation before people got radical and organized... Workers we slaves, expendable, and without meaning... Their lives were worth so little as to be considered inconsiderable... Even today, the workplace is the only place where murder is legal...

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@Lash,

I almost get the feeling you're starting to view leftists and democrats more or less the way I do. I mean, Fido, Parados, and POM are basically what democrats actually are these days, it's not your imagination.

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@georgeob1,

But Lash doesn't live in Ohio or Wisconsin or Texas. She has CHOSEN to live in California and whine about personal responsibility which seems to mean not being responsible if at all possible.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

But, Joe. Being forced against your will to join and support a group who you disagree with vehemently is just wrong. I've never experienced anything similar to this. It's akin to making me join the KKK.

And who's forcing you to teach in public schools in California?

2 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I believe there is ample evidence out there that they would not. Most of our private sector industry operates happily without union infestation - certainly the most innovative and productive parts. You don't have to look hard to find the evidence, Joe.

No, that's not evidence at all. That's evidence of how some employers operate in a world in which unions still exist. I posited a world in which no unions exist. Your argument is akin to saying that, because some people don't break the law now, that's proof that they wouldn't break the law if there were no police. You can't make that conclusion based on that evidence.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

I'll concede there is like an unmeasurable exemplary effect that probably deters non union companies from the worst abuses. However, we do have places like Detroit and Milwaukee as living reminders of the transience of the benefits of unionization. The fact is nearly all companies work very hard to motivate their work forces - certainly the most successful ones do. They too have an exemplary effect on the others.

I can't prove it, but I believe you are resurrecting an idea that is a relic of a departed past.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

But Lash doesn't live in Ohio or Wisconsin or Texas. She has CHOSEN to live in California and whine about personal responsibility which seems to mean not being responsible if at all possible.

The state of California, through its own constituted political processes chose to give labor unions government enforced monopolies governing wide classes of public employment. Lash is a citizen and a voter. She has every right to oppose this system and to work to change it - as an increasing number of similarly infected states are already doing. There is nothing inevitable or permanent about such laws in a democracy. No one is obliged to accept such things as a permanent feature merely as a consequence of residence.

How would you characterize your own rather steady stream of whining about issues that concern you?

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

My company has never had any union represented employees and hopefully never will. Despite that, we too have a five day week, 12 paid holidays/year, excellent health & dental benefits, 401K and employee stock plan and competitive salaries for our industry. We enjoy very low employee turnover, high productivity and above industry average profitability.

You only have those current work rules because unions forced those to become the standard. Your workers should be grateful that the unions fought so hard to have them, that the country internalized the idea that this is how life should work. Lash should be grateful that unions fought so hard to make her job one worth having, but she shows none of that grace and a whole lot of bile. Basically spitting in the face of those who helped her.

And in a country where unions no longer exist, those rules will degrade over time - and you know it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

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