Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

@georgeob1,

I would bet that M&I bank offers more investment vehicles than just checking and savings accounts.

My bank offers CDs, money markets as well as retirement accounts of many types. I happen to have an IRA at my bank that is worth tens of thousands of dollars. Not unreasonable to think someone could have hundreds of thousands in a retirement account at M&I bank.

https://www.mibank.com/mibank/Personal/Banking/Savings%2C+CDs+and+Money+Market+Accounts/pbankiras
I guess I wouldn't worry about his investing acumen georgeob1. Perhaps you should worry about yours.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Not nearly as cool when someone turns that lameness on you, is it.

Made me laugh coke on the screen. I really think you should stop sharpening your agenda sword and think about this as if it was you.

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@Lash,

Have you considered the possibility of getting together with twenty or thirty other people in your own situation and trying to put together your own school?

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Lash wrote:

But, Joe. Being forced against your will to join and support a group who you disagree with vehemently is just wrong. I've never experienced anything similar to this. It's akin to making me join the KKK.

And who's forcing you to teach in public schools in California?

But Joe; she would much rather be forced to endure humiliating working conditions and starvation wages... You see, the problem is not being forced... The problem is being forced by those she considers equals... She is quite willing to be forced by those who she perceives as more powerful, and so more worthy; and that is because she is a lickspittle...

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@Fido,

Perhaps. I think it's much more likely that Lash doesn't want to work at non-unionized private schools because the pay and benefits are better at public schools.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

I'll concede there is like an unmeasurable exemplary effect that probably deters non union companies from the worst abuses. However, we do have places like Detroit and Milwaukee as living reminders of the transience of the benefits of unionization. The fact is nearly all companies work very hard to motivate their work forces - certainly the most successful ones do. They too have an exemplary effect on the others.

I can't prove it, but I believe you are resurrecting an idea that is a relic of a departed past.

I was a union ironworker for nearly thirty years... We set the standard for non union ironworkers just as they lowered our standards, caused us to work harder than anyone should have to, risk our lives more, and cut corners to the limit... Their existence played a part in every contract we signed, but it also killed some of us... We really had to balance the need for income against the need for life and health, and it was because those working non union, many of whom where incapable physically or psychologically of being union ironworkers, or of doing quality work...

A lot of building fall down on the heads of people who run into them in an attempt to find protection from storms, and anyone who thinks an inspector can ensure quality work is a fool... Only people proud of their profession, and proud of the quality of their own work will produce quality, because it is in their nature; and not always, but when it works as it should, union ironworkers produce a quality product... The non-union, by cutting quality, force union ironworkers to do the same... The situation is not good for America, and the solution is not really to have all people union... The problem would be for all workers to meet minimum standards of education and ability, to receive suffficient wages to cover the expense and minimize the danger, and to criminalize substandard work... A lot of non union contractors and some union contractors should be in prison...

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

My company has never had any union represented employees and hopefully never will. Despite that, we too have a five day week, 12 paid holidays/year, excellent health & dental benefits, 401K and employee stock plan and competitive salaries for our industry. We enjoy very low employee turnover, high productivity and above industry average profitability.

You only have those current work rules because unions forced those to become the standard. Your workers should be grateful that the unions fought so hard to have them, that the country internalized the idea that this is how life should work. Lash should be grateful that unions fought so hard to make her job one worth having, but she shows none of that grace and a whole lot of bile. Basically spitting in the face of those who helped her.

And in a country where unions no longer exist, those rules will degrade over time - and you know it.

Cycloptichorn

There have been too many enlightened despots in this world to believe people only pay well and give good working conditions because of the union... Some times people hate the union because it represents democracy which they hate, and it is an impediment to injustice... But, if employers were racing horses instead of men, they would take care of their stock, and make certain of their welbeing... Very often, employers do not have such foresight only because at their level of employment, and the nature of their product means the street provides infinite relacement employees, so that human beings can be used and trashed at will... People do not have carreers, but pointless, payless jobs... No union would bother to try to represent them, and if some one did try to organize them the employer would close up shop, and relocate in a land of slaves and become an importer... Technology has robbed us of individuality... If we have a job, we have a job anyone can do, and be trained to do in minutes... I knew of a man once who put his head in a press, and hit the trigger...It was that kind of job; and we have too many of them with no more of a reward than enough money to make it back and do it again...

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Not nearly as cool when someone turns that lameness on you, is it.

Sure it is. The comment was correct - my mom could move to a different job or different region if it mattered enough to her to do it, the same way you could.

I was merely pointing out that in states without unions, the workers hardly fare well and the outcomes are worse across the board than those with unions.

Quote:

Made me laugh coke on the screen. I really think you should stop sharpening your agenda sword and think about this as if it was you.

I've been in a union and I work with unions all the time currently. Public employee unions. So it is about me.

Instead of laughing, maybe you could engage the conversation in a little more depth? You throw a lot of bombs but never once acknowledge the fact that the unions DO provide you with benefits: their presence helps keep your district and your job from being cut, even further than what we've already seen. It's helped you have the level of pay you enjoy. And it would help you if your school was being highly unreasonable regarding your employment.

Cycloptichorn

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@joefromchicago,

Actually, Joe, I prefer to teach under-served kids in public school, and I have to say that I'm surprised you really think that of me.

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@Fido,

Look, weirdo, the working conditions are better in GA - a RTW state - nobody's starving or in a ******* bread line. I can see that you're a pawn for unions. Feel free to **** off.

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@Cycloptichorn,

You don't seem to get it. Wages and benefits are just as good and working conditions are BETTER in many RTW states.

Maybe you can start by telling me how a non-union state can achieve this without a union - yet, I still owe a union.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Actually, Joe, I prefer to teach under-served kids in public school

Do you think under-served kids only go to public schools? I assure you there are plenty of non-unionized private and parochial schools in underprivileged communities that would fulfill your sense of mission while freeing you from the oppressive manacles of the union. They may even be hiring.

Lash wrote:

and I have to say that I'm surprised you really think that of me.

I'm surprised you're surprised.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Perhaps. I think it's much more likely that Lash doesn't want to work at non-unionized private schools because the pay and benefits are better at public schools.

Whatever may be her motives they are her own, and not really relevant to the discussion - unless you postulate that it is impossible to be a public school teacher and, at the same time wish to be free of the union. Even in that case, Lash would disprove the postulate. The only inconsistency here is with respect to your prejudices.

In a year's time when the Wisconsin stops collecting union dues from its employees wages and the unions have to start billing them individually we will all find out how much the teachers there love their unions.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Look, weirdo, the working conditions are better in GA - a RTW state - nobody's starving or in a ******* bread line. I can see that you're a pawn for unions. Feel free to **** off.

I will certainly feel free; because I am; and because I do not fear to defend my freedom, as it has always been defended: COLLECTIVELY...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

I will certainly feel free; because I am; and because I do not fear to defend my freedom, as it has always been defended: COLLECTIVELY...
[/quote]

Oh I see. You are free as long as you follow the herd.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Fido wrote:

I will certainly feel free; because I am; and because I do not fear to defend my freedom, as it has always been defended: COLLECTIVELY...

Oh I see. You are free as long as you follow the herd.
[/quote]You are never free... Why do you think we have armies??? Why have we went to war fromt he very start, from the moment we declared our independence and before... People did not stand up alone against armies because a death would have ended it all... We would never have the limited freedoms we have if people had acted as you suggest: ALONE... Freedom is experienced as an individual; but it is always defended together with others when it is successfully defended... But do not be confused... People like you stand together with others against freedom, even while you decry the collective defense of rights... It is because you admire the petty tyrants of this world and would be like them if you could...

You want to see people stand alone so you can rub them out one by one... People are learning, and it is the republicans who are teaching them... You cannot ask the rich to pay taxes without them crying: class warfare... We can see now who is fighting class warfare... And when trade union people say working class; it is because they are learning they are no different in the eyes of the rich than the humblest slave, except that they have the advantage of organization, which the rich hate with a passion usually reserved for rats, and lice, and rabid dogs... They hate us, and the best thing they can do for this country is to throw away the ruse of class cooperation, and show the mailed fist of class warfare...Now is the time for them to strike a blow for tyranny... Get on your knees, you slave...

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Whatever may be her motives they are her own, and not really relevant to the discussion - unless you postulate that it is impossible to be a public school teacher and, at the same time wish to be free of the union. Even in that case, Lash would disprove the postulate. The only inconsistency here is with respect to your prejudices.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

Oh I see. You are free as long as you follow the herd.

I don't think 'herd' is exactly the word you want. Most if not all of those group names come to us from the middle ages (school of fish, pride of lions, leap of leopards, murder of rooks...) and I'm not sure what the exact word for more than one lemming would be, but that's the word you'd want...

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

I dont think there is a lot of lemmings on this foram. But a lot of people unable to open their minds to new or different ideas.

1 Reply

@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

I dont think there is a lot of lemmings on this foram. But a lot of people unable to open their minds to new or different ideas.

Democrats.

1 Reply

Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

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