Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

Is that why over 60% of the people in Wisconsin disagreed with Walker and supported the unions in the polls, gunga? They were elected by a small margin in an election with comparatively few people voting and the right wing higly energized and dominating the vote out of their proportion in the population. With any luck, this vote will energize the large majority of Wisconsin voters to recall Walker and his sycophants.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

Scott Walker and these republicans won an election by promising to do precisely what they are doing and they succeeded

Thats a typical gungaface lie. Walker ran on fiscal austerity and controlling costs. His platform said NOTHING about union busting. The fact that he had to extract the union bisting legislation from the budget bill and then rush in a quorum lets us know how honorable he was. Te budget bill alr5eady had huge concessions.
I suppose all hes managed to do is to wake up the sleeping union rank and file and fill them with a "terrible resolve" to undo his crap.

It aint over till its over. Walker is one of the Koch puppets.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

If collective bargaining is a right, then no amount of legislation can remove it from people... I would suggest that the obligation to be bound by ones words into relationships goes at least as far back in our history to the Emperor Justinian, though it no longer generally applies to ones children as well... My point being that while this all still has to get past the court, and that is unlikely given the demands for equal protection under the law, what we would also call a right, that the obvious result cannot possibly be the intended result, unless that result being riot and resentment was the desired one...

Let me offer, that if the contracts between the state and the employees of the state are of no value or meaning, then the bankers who have forced debt upon the state hold contracts of no worth, and the constitution which is a statement of a social contract is also of no value... Is this really the message government wants to send to the people, that contracts will be honored on a case by case basis if at all??? Because the trust that people hold in their government when the government shows it has no honor will be damaged no matter what excuse is used...

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@gungasnake,

The state's Assembly passed Republican Gov. Scott Walker's explosive proposal 53-42 Thursday. The state's Senate approved it the night before after using a procedural move to bypass its AWOL Democrats.

Walker says he'll sign the legislation as quickly as possible.

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:

MADISON, Wis. (AP) -- Republicans in the Wisconsin Senate voted Wednesday night to strip nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers after discovering a way to bypass the chamber's missing Democrats.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
Scott Walker and these republicans won an election by promising to do precisely what they are doing and they succeeded
Thats a typical gungaface lie. Walker ran on fiscal austerity and controlling costs. His platform said NOTHING about union busting. The fact that he had to extract the union bisting legislation from the budget bill and then rush in a quorum lets us know how honorable he was. Te budget bill alr5eady had huge concessions.
I suppose all hes managed to do is to wake up the sleeping union rank and file and fill them with a "terrible resolve" to undo his crap.

It aint over till its over. Walker is one of the Koch puppets.

It is the whole working class that should be filled with resolve... Unions, trade unions have always said the working people could trust the employing class and enter into honorable agreements with them... Apart from the fact that unions exist for only the single purpose of achieving for their members what they already pay the government to achieve, are they correct to even bargain with the rich and the state for fair wages and working conditions??? The fact is, that because the unions do not embrace the needs of the entire working class and are not revolutionary, they cannot stand behind their members because their members are too few and themselves dispossessed of their right and wealth... Unions cannot maintain wages and conditions in the face of so many in poverty... If fair wages and working conditions were a right they would have demanded that right for all, and since they have not they deserve to be destroyed... Only a revolutionary union demanding universal rights, and demanding the government defend those rights as it is paid to do is worthy of the support of the people... And I agree that many people are stupid, and that we have some prime examples of that stupidity on this site, but it is the zenieth of stupidity to deny to working people their rights when their rights and the recognition of their rights to fair wages and working conditions is all that is standing between your own wages and working conditions reaching their nadir... It is inevitable that so many without fair wages will drag down the wages of the unions... It is also inevitable that unions will set the standard for many outside of the unions and without standard there would be no lower limit to wages... Some one, some where must be able to say, whether collectively or not, that justice is a right due not only to the few and well organized, but to all people... But, Unions should never say that the contract is ever made with some one essentially honorable, and just the opposite, that no one of the employing class is honorable, and it is for that reason that a contract is required... But what should they say to their members when the state which should enforce all contracts can not be relied upon to abide by its own signed contracts... The state here is not seeking to break contracts made with the bankers for they government is all of that same class, but is breaking contracts with little people whose reputations and lives they think it can afford to trash... So, again, the state is not the champion of the little people, but the victor over them...

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@Fido,

The working class should embrace this change and hope for more.

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@H2O MAN,

Envy is a sin when stipidity is seen only as a fault... The bell is tolling for you... Do you think that governor would be better off signing that bill than in signing a suicide note??? What long term gain do you think can be had by breaking contracts with state workers??? Do you think anyone can make the fine distinction between governors and government employees??? The people see them as part and parcel... The dems paint the repubs black and the repubs paint the dems black and the people see they are all black, and it will not get better when the government cannot provide basic services like education, fire protection, or law enforcement because employees are incompetent, overworked, or underpaid... Do you think in your wildest insane ruminations that it is the work of government, or some how in government's best interest to turn citizen against citizen, to stir up envy or resentment, or to see any group denied its rights to better protect the privilage of another group??? Those guys are inciting to riot expecting some gain... Kill the unionist if what you desire is revolution... The unions always fall short of revolution, are conservative, and even reactionary... I have seen unions vote for George wallace, and Ronald Reagan... They do not know what is in their own best interest, and it is great that the governor should assume all on his own the job of teaching them class consciousness...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Quote:

It is the whole working class that should be filled with resolve...

In fact they were. They got tired of being fucked over by those union fat cats and demoKKKrat party bosses and elected Scot Walker and 19 pubby senators to fix the problem and they did.

How much are YOU being paid to spread all this ******* propaganda over forums?

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@RABEL222,

Another way to look at it is that unions are largely responsible for the outsourcing that is decimating the middle and lower middle classes by falsely raising wages so high that it perverts our naturally aligned economy. Also, unions, while they may provide more money and some additional perks to members - also line their pockets, use that money as bribes (like any good PAC, but I still hate it) and enrich some shady mobbish characters.

Unions did have an important purpose a few decades ago.

A lot of people think they have outlived their usefulness and are horrible organizations that have done more harm to the American economy than good.

Republicans may have an eye out for wealthy people...and business. Because the (I know, worn analogy) sea of business raises all boats. I basically agree with that theory. If you gut business to come up with more money, more benefits for workers without making laws to aid business' survival - eventually the business fails and the workers are unemployed. Sometimes, intervention to make business responsive to worker needs is required. Attacking business is crazy.

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@Lash,

The only relatively minor detail you left out is that the Republican party has largely become the party of the tax-paying middle class and that the oil/banking wing of the party has experienced some very rough treatment just recently and no longer dominates the party. The middle class now largely understands what the demoKKKrat party is about.

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@gungasnake,

Money dumb ****!

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@Lash,

After the big companies regain complete control of government, their not far from that now, our need for unions will become apparent even to unthinking biased people like you. At this time big business has gained something like 6% groath and returned .5% to the workers.

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@Lash,

Quote:

Another way to look at it is that unions are largely responsible for the outsourcing that is decimating the middle and lower middle classes by falsely raising wages so high that it perverts our naturally aligned economy.

Boy, our wages must be too high..
The top 400 richest Americans have more wealth then the bottom 60% of Americans.
In 2009 the top 400 had 1.27 billion. The bottom 60% had 1.22 billion.
Fast forward to 2010 the top 400 had 1.37. The bottom 60% had 1.26 billion..

Quick we need to cut the wages of the bottom 60% since they are making far too much money.

source
You should read the entire article before you claim I am wrong.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Another way to look at it is that unions are largely responsible for the outsourcing that is decimating the middle and lower middle classes by falsely raising wages so high that it perverts our naturally aligned economy.

Bullshit. You are taking an extremely complex question and blaming the unions for it, when the true answer lies in things like tax policy, trade and tariff policy, and capital reinvestment in other countries after WW2.

Quote:

Also, unions, while they may provide more money and some additional perks to members - also line their pockets, use that money as bribes (like any good PAC, but I still hate it) and enrich some shady mobbish characters.

More bullshit. There's no evidence that modern unions have anything to do with 'mobbish' characters. If there is, present it. I think you are just repeating a trope here.

Quote:

Unions did have an important purpose a few decades ago.

A lot of people think they have outlived their usefulness and are horrible organizations that have done more harm to the American economy than good.

Republicans may have an eye out for wealthy people...and business. Because the (I know, worn analogy) sea of business raises all boats. I basically agree with that theory. If you gut business to come up with more money, more benefits for workers without making laws to aid business' survival - eventually the business fails and the workers are unemployed. Sometimes, intervention to make business responsive to worker needs is required. Attacking business is crazy.

What we've seen in the last 30 years, since the decline of Unionism sped up, is that the tide has risen - yet the boats of the middle and lower classes did not rise. Their share of wealth and wages have remained flat, while that of the rich and super-rich have exploded. So, you're theory has just a couple of problems with it.

But, it's not really a serious theory, is it? I mean, you didn't sit down and objectively examine the situation and the facts, and then decide what you thought. It's just an explanation for how you feel inside, a nicer way of saying 'I approve greed and approve the wealthy getting the lion's share of everything.' For someone who holds such a stance, unions would indeed be a negative thing, because they are one of the only balancing forces against what you advocate left.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Unions did have an important purpose a few decades ago.

Does anyone genuinely believe that, if unions disappeared tomorrow, employers wouldn't go back to the same kind of practices that they used in the Gilded Age the day after tomorrow?

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIkZF-0CoaAtedlbUhvBxqSLHWfw_i8ny7zZ1eDbBA45fmwCYxlg&t=1

1 Reply

8.9 quake story trumps crybaby liberals and unions

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

....these republicans won an election by promising to do precisely what they are doing and they succeeded at this precisely because the voters and taxpayers of Wisconsin were tired of being fucked by these unions.

Horseshit. Please produce one iota of evidence that stripping the public unions of their bargaining rights was part of ANY campaign in Wisconsin.

This was a torpedo attack in response to a fake economic crisis.
It wasn't such a crisis when the Republicans of Wisconsin were handing out the tax breaks at the beginning of the year. Are they going to roll those back?

Joe(Stop sucking up all the **** they feed you.)Nation

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido, you poor misguided idiot... go take a nap.

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@Joe Nation,

Quote:

This was a torpedo attack in response to a fake economic crisis.

The crisis is moral, and economic only in that the people cannot afford the moral crisis any longer. The problem is that the unions, in demanding compensation beyond what any of the voters and taxpayers who pay their salaries make, are basically demanding recognition as an aristocratic class and that's before you even get the the questions of education vs indoctrination or the quality of public education vs private school education costing a third as much.

But the moral crisis would be there even if everybody in the picture were living in mansions and palaces and driving Cadillacs and Mercedes.

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gungasnakkke says:

Quote:

The problem is that the unions, in demanding compensation beyond what any of the voters and taxpayers who pay their salaries make, are basically demanding recognition as an aristocratic class

Typical gungasnaKKKe bullshit. Survey after survey shows that when you compare private versus government union jobs with equal educational levels, that government workers actually earn somewhat less. Making up your "facts" again, as usual, snakkke?

1 Reply

Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

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