Wis. GOP strips public workers' bargaining rights

I was educated and student taught in a state where there is no teachers' union. They're pay rate is great.

I'm transplanted to ******* Siberia, where unions strongarm teachers to join. I don't owe them ****.

[Look, if you don't like being part of the union, quit and do something else. It's not a difficult concept. Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

[Look, if you don't like being part of the union, quit and do something else. It's not a difficult concept. Cycloptichorn

At least Cyclo (probably unthinkingly) acknowledges that forced unionization involves the removal of an individual's freedom of association.

Sure. You pay your way through college, pass the exams, and then pay for permission to work in your profession.

What do you get? Why, if there's a layoff, your union insures that you are the first to go, regardless of ability and talent. The money paid in dues is money well spent. Indeed!

Her school district is currently losing tremendous amounts of employees with no plan to replace them and no real plan how they are going to keep the schools running with 1/2 as much staff as they used to have, but increasing numbers of kids every year. I know very well what things are like in non-union education states, so don't feed me a line of bullshit about how they are all roses. Because that's a complete lie.

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Her school district is currently losing tremendous amounts of employees with no plan to replace them and no real plan how they are going to keep the schools running with 1/2 as much staff as they used to have, but increasing numbers of kids every year. I know very well what things are like in non-union education states, so don't feed me a line of bullshit about how they are all roses. Because that's a complete lie.

But what is the union's role in preventing staff reductions? California has issued 19,000 layoff notices to public sector teachers. Many other states(both union and non-union) are facing the same problems. You either have to cut staff or raise taxes.

Not only that, but show me the non-unionized business that responds to a need to lay off employees by getting rid of levels of management and useless people in the middle of the supply chain. I've never seen that, personally. What I have seen - and saw a lot of in 2008 - were younger employees and those with less experience being let go, exactly the same way they would if they were on the low levels of the union totem pole.

Cycloptichorn

The money isn't my issue. It's forced membership. I've been forced to join a group that I don't agree with. I don't think a person whose life drags them to another state should be strong-armed by a union if they want to work in their chosen profession. This is a basic obstruction of personal freedom.

[There is no removal of anyone's freedom to associate with anyone at all. Appeals to Extreme are a poor form of argumentation, George.

I also take issue with your use of the phrase 'forced unionization.' Teachers in CA WANTED to unionize and they have had plenty of opportunities to de-certify the union if they didn't like it. The truth is that those like Lash are rarities; most understand that the union does indeed protect their interests, both on a small and large scale, and that the money paid in dues is money well spent.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

[There is no removal of anyone's freedom to associate with anyone at all. Appeals to Extreme are a poor form of argumentation, George.

I also take issue with your use of the phrase 'forced unionization.' Teachers in CA WANTED to unionize and they have had plenty of opportunities to de-certify the union if they didn't like it. The truth is that those like Lash are rarities; most understand that the union does indeed protect their interests, both on a small and large scale, and that the money paid in dues is money well spent.

Cycloptichorn

What a bunch of bullshit !

The freedom of association includes the freedom not to associate. Membership in a labor union is a precondition for employment as a teacher in California public schools - whether the individual teacher chooses to join or not. There is nothing remotely related to "appeals to extremes" involved in saying that. You are either trying to use your usual bluster to distract or are very confused yourself.

The essence of freedom is the right to disagree with the majority. Your opposition to secret ballots in unionization and vehement opposition to a Wisconsin law which requires annual recertification of public service union monopolies amply testify to your interest in everything but individual freedom. Join the herd if you like, but don't presume to force others to do so.

What she is experiencing is happening nationally - but at least she isn't forced to submit to a union.

The money isn't my issue. It's forced membership. I've been forced to join a group that I don't agree with.

You've narrowed the scope down tremendously. Why can't she get a job with a private school, or as an adult educator, if she doesn't want to unionize? I know people personally who do both those jobs. She certainly isn't without options.

I don't have to force others to do so. The herd enforces its' own rules. Teachers are required to unionize in CA to work in public schools because the vast majority of teachers WANT that to be the way it is.

I disagree with your description of me completely. Defining 'those who disagree with you' as 'being against freedom itself' is a poor way to forward an argument and it isn't compelling to anyone.

They WISH they had a union to represent them. Don't you understand that by now? They all wish they had representation. Right now they have nothing and the district is literally cowering in fear of what will happen when the real hammer comes down later this year.

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They could always move to a state that supports teacher unions.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

They WISH they had a union to represent them. Don't you understand that by now? They all wish they had representation. Right now they have nothing and the district is literally cowering in fear of what will happen when the real hammer comes down later this year.

They could always move to a state that supports teacher unions.

Dane County District Attorney Ismael Ozanne filed a civil complaint Wednesday alleging legislative leaders violated the state's open meetings law last week when a special committee adopted a bill curbing collective bargaining for most public workers.

Ozanne is asking a Dane County Circuit Court to void the new law because of the committee action. He also wants the four Republicans on the committee fined $300 each for knowingly violating the state's open meetings law.

In the short term, Ozanne is seeking to enjoin Secretary of State Doug La Follette from publishing the law, which would put it into effect. La Follette has said, unless ordered otherwise, he will publish it March 25, and it will become law the next day.

Ozanne's complaint said the case cannot be resolved by then because lawmakers are exempt from civil process during the legislative session.

Jeff Skiles, the co-pilot in the famous "Miracle on the Hudson" landing in January 2009, has been involved in the budget protests that engulfed Madison in recent weeks.

On Tuesday, he took another big step, choosing to withdraw what he said was hundreds of thousands of dollars of his own money from M&I Bank to protest the actions of bank executives there who backed Gov. Scott Walker.