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The new Puritans: Food Bullies . . .

 
 
noinipo
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 10:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
That video is not about the process of producing Foie Gras.???
.
That video shows the treatment of ducks while producing Foie Gras. It so happens that all mass production of Foie Gras is pure torture and nothing else.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 10:35 pm
@noinipo,
Quote:
That video shows the treatment of ducks while producing Foie Gras. It so happens that all mass production of Foie Gras is pure torture and nothing else
Diseased dirty birds in tiny cages and getting chewed on by rats is all about how foie gras is produced? Your judgment is as iffy as is the worse of the PETA nuts that I have encountered. I am beginning to wonder if there is some brain wasting disease cursing through the ranks of liberals..
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 10:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
FYI: I have a bit of Foie Gras in the freezer left over from New Years. It will be part of Valentines dinner, which will include rabbit. If it is tasty I eat it...and I don't take kindly to complaints from your squeamish types.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  5  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
If you don't get it, you're stupider than I ever thought you could be. Of course it's about foie gras, you idiot, and the inhumane treatment of these birds. What don't you get???
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:49 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:
If you do want (or need due to allergies or diabetic concerns) gluten-free pasta, do get it.

You are the second person in those food threads I hear implying that gluten is bad for diabetics. I am a Type-2 diabetic, and I'm eating Seitan on a regular basis. Seitan is more-or-less pure, cooked wheat gluten. It's causing me no problems at all. And why should it. Gluten is a protein, not a carbohydrate, so why would it affect my blood sugar level? You're such a food bully to insinuate that it would!
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Feb, 2011 11:51 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
When the stores start offering gluten-free products, at a high price, your choice of products which contain gluten contracts, and the price of those products goes up, as well.

Why? Wheat grains contain a certain amount of gluten, and producers aren't going to throw it away. Hence, less gluten in some products merely means more gluten in others.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 03:21 am
@Thomas,
So i'll take that to mean that you don't understand how marketing products works.
noinipo
 
  3  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:42 am
@hawkeye10,
Thanks for the compliment. You are saying that Liberals are against torture. You are right, I am very much against torture.
Now that you know how ducks are treated, enjoy your liver from a sick duck.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 09:38 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Setanta wrote:
When the stores start offering gluten-free products, at a high price, your choice of products which contain gluten contracts, and the price of those products goes up, as well.

Why? Wheat grains contain a certain amount of gluten, and producers aren't going to throw it away. Hence, less gluten in some products merely means more gluten in others.

Sorry, you are correct. I was simply thinking of many products with gluten, not gluten itself. Many of those products are high in carbohydrates aren't they?

Gluten is a protien.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 10:46 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
So i'll take that to mean that you don't understand how marketing products works.

I'm sure you will. What else would you take it to mean---that you made a mistake? Nah, I'm not holding my breath for that.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:21 am
@Setanta,
Quote:

There's another dynamic in operation here, too. Because healthy eating is now trendy, the cost of many basic foods has just gotten ridiculous. There's a weekly farmer's market (so-called) in just about every one of the parks around here (different days of the week). You go there, and the prices make it highway robbery without the gun. Just across the street from the East Lynn Park where we sometimes visit the farmer's market there's a Chinese green grocer (the Chinese have bought up or newly opened just about every green grocer you see) who sells many of the same fruits and vegetables for half the price or less.

When you add to that that grocery store prices are already higher in poor neighborhoods than they are in other neighborhoods, and the cost of decent nuitrition becomes prohibitive for poor folks. If you add to that crappy school lunches because the school district has contracted it and met guidelines, so go f*** yourself, and it's a no win situation for the people who need good nuitrion the most.


I think Michelle Obama would agree with you, and she is trying to address some of these issues. She's applying pressure, but I don't consider it bullying, and I applaud her efforts.
Quote:

The New York Times
February 6, 2011
Restaurant Nutrition Draws Focus of First Lady
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG and WILLIAM NEUMAN

WASHINGTON — After wrapping her arms around the retail giant Wal-Mart and trying to cajole food makers into producing nutrition labels that are easier to understand, Michelle Obama, the first lady and a healthy-eating advocate, has her sights set on a new target: the nation’s restaurants.

A team of advisers to Mrs. Obama has been holding private talks over the past year with the National Restaurant Association, a trade group, in a bid to get restaurants to adopt her goals of smaller portions and children’s meals that include healthy offerings like carrots, apple slices and milk instead of French fries and soda, according to White House and industry officials.

The discussions are preliminary, and participants say they are nowhere near an agreement like the one Mrs. Obama announced recently with Wal-Mart to lower prices on fruits and vegetables and to reduce the amount of fat, sugar and salt in its foods. But they reveal how assertively she is working to prod the industry to sign on to her agenda.

On Tuesday, Mrs. Obama will begin a three-day publicity blitz to spotlight “Let’s Move!,” her campaign to reduce childhood obesity, which was announced one year ago this week.

She will introduce a public service announcement, appear on the “Today” show and deliver a speech in Atlanta promoting gardening and healthy-eating programs.

But as she uses her public platform to persuade children to eat healthier and exercise more, Mrs. Obama and her team are also quietly pressing the levers of industry and government. Over the past year she has become involved in many aspects of the nation’s dietary habits, exerting her influence over nutrition policy.

Her team has worked with beverage makers to design soda cans with calorie counts and is deeply involved in a major remake of the government’s most recognizable tool for delivering its healthy-eating message: the food pyramid.

Mrs. Obama persuaded Congress to require schools to include more fruits and vegetables in the lunches they offer, and she encouraged lawmakers to require restaurants to print nutrition information on menus, a provision that wound up in President Obama’s landmark health care law.

“They really want a cooperative relationship with the food industry, and they’re looking at industry to come up with ideas,” said Lanette R. Kovachi, corporate dietitian for Subway, the nation’s second-largest restaurant chain in terms of revenue. She said she had taken part in at least four conference calls with Mrs. Obama’s food advisers.

But in seeking partnerships with industry, Mrs. Obama runs a risk. While nutritionists and public health advocates give her high marks for putting healthy eating on the national agenda, many worry that she will be co-opted by companies rushing to embrace her without offering meaningful change.

“Can the food industry play a responsible role in the obesity epidemic? The answer isn’t no,” said Dr. David Ludwig, the director of the Optimal Weight for Life program at Children’s Hospital in Boston. “The point is that the best initiatives can be subverted for special interest, and it’s important to be vigilant when we form partnerships with industry.”

White House officials say Mrs. Obama has believed from the start that bringing industry to the negotiating table is critical to achieving her long-range goal of eliminating childhood obesity within a generation.

Melody Barnes, Mr. Obama’s domestic policy adviser and the chairwoman of a presidential task force on obesity, said industry has been eager to work with the White House. But Mrs. Obama does not lend her name to any plan or program, she said, unless it meets the recommendations of a task force report issued in May.

“If someone wants her support, we take a hard look at the data and the research to determine if the commitment meets our standards,” Ms. Barnes said. “And if the result is good for business as well as for the health of American children, we see that as a win-win.”

Still, Mrs. Obama has been treading carefully. As part of her anti-obesity campaign, she has called on food makers to design clear “front-of-package” labels to warn consumers about ingredients like salt, sugar and fat. But after months of negotiations with the White House, the companies insisted on a plan that would also spotlight healthy ingredients, like calcium or fiber.

The administration thought the new labels confusing, and they do not meet recommendations in a recent report by experts at the nonpartisan Institute of Medicine. When the food companies announced the plan, the White House put out a tepid statement calling it “a significant first step.” Mrs. Obama said nothing.

“She could have just added this to her list of things done, but she said, ‘Not good enough,’ ” said Dr. David Kessler, a commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration under President Bill Clinton “It was not done in a confrontational manner; she didn’t blast them, but she sent a very clear signal that it didn’t meet the mark.”

That, however, did not stop food industry executives from invoking Mrs. Obama’s name when they rolled out the labeling initiative last month and said they were responding to her call for action.

Mrs. Obama’s approach to the new labels contrasts starkly with her embrace of Wal-Mart’s plan to reformulate foods and lower prices on fruits and vegetables — a plan that carried political risks of its own. The conservative pundit Rush Limbaugh maintained that Mrs. Obama had “somehow bullied or pressured” the company, while liberals complained that she given her imprimatur to a company that her husband once criticized for its labor practices.

And some food industry experts say Wal-Mart, not Mrs. Obama, was the big winner. The company has long wanted to expand into urban areas, but often faces opposition in cities where unionized labor is powerful, like New York. Mrs. Obama’s endorsement may make it easier for the company to gain a foothold; she strongly supports bringing fruits and vegetables to so-called food deserts, low-income neighborhoods where healthy offerings are often expensive and scarce.

“Wal-Mart is very clever, very political,” said Walter Olson, who writes about food regulation for the Cato Institute, a libertarian research organization in Washington. “I think Wal-Mart has taken a list of things it was probably considering doing anyway and managed to get the first lady’s endorsement in a way that its shareholders will be laughing all the way down the produce aisle.”

Wal-Mart was already planning its initiative when Mrs. Obama became involved. But Leslie Dach, the company’s executive in charge of the project, said Mrs. Obama made it “stronger and ultimately smarter” by demanding that Wal-Mart examine its own progress. “We think she and her staff have approached this very seriously, rooted in the science,” Mr. Dach said.

Mrs. Obama’s outreach to restaurants is still in its early stages. A National Restaurant Association spokeswoman, Sue Hensley, called it “a positive dialogue” and said her group and Mrs. Obama had “the same goals in mind.”

In a speech to the association last fall, Mrs. Obama made those goals clear. Noting that research has shown that children consume more saturated fat and less fiber and calcium when they eat out, she challenged restaurant owners to change their menus, recipes and marketing practices to “give parents the confidence to know that they can go into any restaurant in this country and choose a genuinely healthy meal for their kids.”

Dr. Kessler said it would take years to gauge the effect of Mrs. Obama’s efforts.

“At the end of the day, this is about changing how we as a country look at food,” he said. “The food industry will change when consumers change what they want, and she’s worked hard to help us look at food differently. Long term, that’s what’s important.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/us/politics/07michelle.html?_r=1&hpw

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:24 am
@firefly,
Nothing i wrote suggested that efforts to improve school cafeteria food is food "bullying."
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:27 am
@Setanta,
And I didn't mean to imply that you did say that it was "bullying". But some people have accused Mrs. Obama of bullying.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:27 am
@Thomas,
When shelf space is filled with new products, the space allotted to existing products necessarily contracts. This creates an artificial supply and demand equationn which makes it appear that the former products are now harder to get. Suppliers then jack the prices of the former products, and it was very noticeable when stores were rushing to put low- or no-carb foods on the shelf. The price of pasta, for example, went up noticeably when the low and no carb pastas were being offered a few years ago. That you don't get out enough to notice things like that at the stores wouldn't suprise me. That you wouldn't admit that doesn't suprise me, either.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:35 am
@Setanta,
Let's look back at the original post.

Setanta wrote:

Low fat, low salt, gluten-free, no carb noodles . . . what the hell ? ! ? ! ?

Seriously, i understand that some people can't eat this stuff, that some people are lactose intolerant, that some people need to cut their salt and fat. But what about the rest of us who don't need to, or just don't care? I like gluten. I love my carbs--potatoes, rice, pasta. I think commercial food companies have gone overboard with this (what's next, no chocolate chocolate?)--sure, provide those foods for those who need and want them, but let the rest of us have our carbs and fat and salt. What do you think?


I think Set is totally correct here, that the 'fad of the day' causes crowding-out of traditional products and methods of preparation on the shelves. The good news for this is that the traditional way of creating these foods is in most cases the cheapest way, so there's significant pressure that keeps the market from being completely overwhelmed.

I don't want to see a future in which my traditional products, which are great for my lifestyle, aren't available b/c everything is geared towards lazy folks who don't exercise at all.

Re: no-chocolate chocolate, there is a big struggle on to ban companies from using the word 'chocolate' when there's no actual cocoa in the product.

Cycloptichorn
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I was only joking around when i was talking about no-chocolate chocolate. However, i shouldn't be suprised that someone is trying that. Many years ago, in the 1970s, Congress actually stepped in to define ice cream as a product containing milk or cream because there were so many products on the market calling themselves ice cream which contained no dairy products.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  4  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:46 am
I have some pretty severe allergies and I'm careful about what I eat. Luckily I'm not lactose intollerant and I don't have to eat a gluten or sugar free diet. However, until fairly recently it was extremely difficult to find substitute foods at the local market. Instead most of these people had to shop at health food stores that sold at a premium. Personally I welcome the major food distrubtors and companies adding these food to our grocery shelves.
I don't think they will push the prices up on "normal" food. The demand for those product won't diminish but it will make it easier for those of us who have problems with food to not spend hours looking for stuff we can eat. Obviously there is a demand other wise you wouldn't see Kraft making KD with cauliflower or Nestle advertising nut free plants...
I also think it's time society became more aware of these dietary needs. I can't tell you how many members of my family and friends have accidentally almost offed me. Most people aren't aware how deadly an allergy can be and think nothing of brushing off a few nut particles from the cake they have offered me or inviting me to a fish bake. I've been rushed to the O.R. several times because people thought I was being overly dramatic.
When I walk down a food aisle and see 84 types of breakfast cereal and most of them are shite, I think we can make room for nutritous food that safe for people who have restrictive diets.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:57 am
@noinipo,
noinipo wrote:
That video shows the treatment of ducks while producing Foie Gras. It so happens that all mass production of Foie Gras is pure torture and nothing else.


luckily, good Foie Gras is not mass-produced
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 12:32 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
When shelf space is filled with new products, the space allotted to existing products necessarily contracts. This creates an artificial supply and demand equationn which makes it appear that the former products are now harder to get.

That much is true, but you're missing the other half of the picture: If more shelf-space is devoted to gluten-free products, you also create an excess supply of gluten, which nature inevitably bundles with the rest of the grain. This excess supply drives down the price of gluten, and of the products that contain it. That makes it easier for consumers to buy those products, offsetting the effect you described.

In any event, this discussion is moot in the 21st century. Just buy your bread online, where shelf-space is unlimited.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 12:35 pm
@Thomas,
big superfmarket chains use data mining statistics to see where the market is and then they SELL their shelf space. Concern for Nutrition has very little to do with it
 

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