13
   

US 160 / UK 0 The score for murdered police officers last year.

 
 
fresco
 
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 01:55 am
How does the US gun lobby have the nerve to open their mouths ?
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 03:19 am
Yes! When will enough be enough?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 04:23 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

How does the US gun lobby have the nerve to open their mouths ?


Typical tear jerker statement without considering any of the additional factors into why the US has higher crime than the UK. You want to make the conclusion that it deals with guns being available to citizens but there is no basis for such a claim.

I don't like guns either, I see them as having only one purpose, to destroy what is at the other end of them. Weather it be a road sign or an animal or a person. But despite the fact that I dislike them, I understand that you can't outlaw them away from society and expect to be safer from that. Why? Because a person who is willing to break laws in the first place, won't care how they get one. Worse yet, they will know that they can go after anyone they want because chances are their next victim probably doesn't own one. That will give a person who wants to rob or burglarize more confidence that they can take advantage of law abiding citizens.

So you honestly think that making guns outlawed is going to make the people safer? It won't, and it will do just the opposite. Now you try to use the UK as an example of why outlawing guns kills fewer cops. There is a reason their death rate is low, but it has nothing to do with guns being outlawed. You want make a causal correlation where none exists. But that is pretty typical in people who neglect to actually do their homework.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 05:01 am
@Krumple,
Quote:
There is a reason their death rate is low


What reason is that? I'm curious.
Krumple
 
  4  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 05:50 am
@aidan,
Quote:
What reason is that? I'm curious.


Well actually trying to find supporting evidence in statistics I actually found that the US crime rate is actually lower than in the UK. There might be fewer gun crimes in the UK than the US but the crime rate is almost 5 times higher in the UK than in the states. So take guns out of the picture doesn't solve crime not even murder when the murder rates are higher in the UK.

But even if guns are the cause of death, then how do you explain Switzerland? They have the most liberal gun laws and wide spread ownership of guns yet their gun crime rate is so low that it is practically non existent. If guns are the problem then shouldn't they have high gun crime rate? Why don't they, the answer to that is my answer to your question.

So my point is, people who are anti-gun come up with these non correlation arguments which don't actually make any sense. It is an attempt to appeal to emotion without statistics to back up their claims.

High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 06:03 am
@Krumple,
Try number of murdered police officers last year in Mexico. Strictest gun laws in the Americas - even possession of ammunition is a criminal offense.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 07:09 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
Try number of murdered police officers last year in Mexico. Strictest gun laws in the Americas - even possession of ammunition is a criminal offense.


Yes another great example of how strict gun laws or prohibition of guns and ammunition does absolutely NOTHING to prevent crime or provide security. Mexico is a great example of that fact, thanks High Seas for reminding me and everyone about that.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 07:27 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

How does the US gun lobby have the nerve to open their mouths ?


The UK must be some kind of UTOPIA where everything is Sunshine and Lollipops.
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 07:56 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

Now you try to use the UK as an example of why outlawing guns kills fewer cops. There is a reason their death rate is low, but it has nothing to do with guns being outlawed.


Bobbies are just more adept at dodging bullets.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 08:56 am
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

Well actually trying to find supporting evidence in statistics I actually found that the US crime rate is actually lower than in the UK. There might be fewer gun crimes in the UK than the US but the crime rate is almost 5 times higher in the UK than in the states. So take guns out of the picture doesn't solve crime not even murder when the murder rates are higher in the UK.


Are they?

England and Wales murders per 100,000 population (2009): 1.6
USA murders per 100,000 population (2009): 5.0

Violence against the person
UK (2009) 16 per 1,000 population
Canada (2005) 9.51 per 1000
USA (2009) 4.29 per 1000 (Aggravated Assault only)

"Depending on which numbers you choose, the violent crime rate in the UK is five times higher than the rate in the US." - from a rabidly anti-gun-control blog. This comparison gets thrown into threads of this sort, but it may be comparing apples with oranges. The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison. Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits.

The reported US violent crime rate includes only Aggravated Assault, whereas the Canadian violent crime rate includes all categories of assault, including the much-more-numerous Assault level 1 (i.e., assault not using a weapon and not resulting in serious bodily harm). A government study concluded that direct comparison of the 2 countries' violent crime totals or rates was "inappropriate".

Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Some types of reported property crime in the U.S. survey as lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the homicide rate in the United States is substantially higher.


0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 09:22 am
@fresco,
How many police officers are there in the UK?
How many in the US?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:29 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
How does the US gun lobby have the nerve to open their mouths ?
I will battle as aggressively as possible
in defense of my Constitutional Right
and my moral right of SELF-DEFENSE
and of immediate access to the means thereof.


I will vote against
any politician who endeavors to compromise
the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment in its purest form and I will TELL him so.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:32 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
Yes! When will enough be enough?
NEVER !

My Constitutional Rights remain ETERNAL





David
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:32 am
Those figures are appalling no matter what statistical game you wish to play with them.

I agree that once the history of a society makes has made gun ownership acceptable and even glamorous, it would be extremely difficult to "shut the stable door". But I cannot see why stricter gun control should not be attempted since it seems like there is nothing to loose. Even a single life saved would be significant !

BTW Swiss gun suicides are the highest in Europe.
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:38 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I will battle as aggressively as possible


That sort of says it all !
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:42 am

Police work, by its nature, is confrontational.
That does not sit well with some people.
Thay shoud find other employment.

I was driven by a cab driver in Las Vegas.
He told of having been a police officer,
in a constant state of emotional tension.
On his last day of work he killed a youthful gangster
who had been violent. He said that he earns less
as a cab driver, but its worth it. @ to his own taste.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 10:46 am
@fresco,

Quote:
I will battle as aggressively as possible
fresco wrote:
That sort of says it all !
BELIEVE IT!!!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:12 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
I agree that once the history of a society
makes has made gun ownership acceptable and even glamorous,
For American citizens to go around unarmed
is INDECENT.



fresco wrote:
it would be extremely difficult to "shut the stable door".
But I cannot see why stricter gun control should not be attempted
How about unConstitutional DISCRIMINATION
qua the right to defend your life
from the predatory violence of man or beast ?
Did u forget "equal protection of the laws" ?






fresco wrote:
since it seems like there is nothing to loose.
Well, we can lose
the anti-American politicians who support gun control.
THAT seems to have worked out fairly well;
hence, not much of it going on.
I shoud have thanked Al Gore for supporting gun control.
I voted against him. I sure did not want HIM as President.
We 'd have been screwn, if he had a good record of opposing gun control.





fresco wrote:
Even a single life saved would be significant !
The criminals of America shoud thank u for your courtesy.
Gun control is O.S.H.A for violent criminals offering them
protection, saving their criminal lives,
on-the-job from the defenses of their victims.

The states of Utah and of Wyoming are processing
legislation to repeal their gun control laws
so that a citizen can freely carry guns openly or concealed (or both).
It is expected to be along soon.
I 'm hoping to see that happen in Florida, Texas and Ohio soon.

In other words:
we will strive with great energy and dedication
to restore the status quo ante,
before the accursed arrival of the anti-black gun control in the South.





fresco wrote:
BTW Swiss gun suicides are the highest in Europe.
The citizens of Switzerland have the autonomous personal right
to end their lives whenever thay prefer,
whether u like it or not.





David
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Why not go all the way back to the wild west ? You could have regular televised gun duels at noon sponsored by the local undertakers ! YEE -HAH !
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2011 11:32 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
Why not go all the way back to the wild west ?
You could have regular televised gun duels at noon sponsored by the local undertakers ! YEE -HAH !
That was fictional. It was a quiet,
agricultural life out there, for the most part (except for Indian raids).

Most of those allegations of gun fights
were only intended to sell "dime novels"
back east, where the authors lived.

The gunfight near the OK Corral was one of only
a few exceptions, maybe 3 or 5. This is known
from the newspapers of the times,
which reported crime statics.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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