lockeWiggins
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 02:52 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I saw it was old but recent, and related events have given me the need to be brought back up. to add to my list of rescources. If you think that this is a waste of your time then just ignore it. Why you chose to implement such a meaningless comment into a exchange of ideas is baffling. My position requires me to enlist the ideas of others as to create a more well rounded opinion on the subject. So far this post has already exceeded my expectations. Thank you to everyone who has given meaningful input into this forum!
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 03:03 pm
@lockeWiggins,
Quote:
Why you chose to implement such a meaningless comment into a exchange of ideas is baffling.


You lack necessary knowledge of the history surrounding discussion of the issue of rape here on A2K to properly understand the context for my comment. This is not meant to imply a failure on your part, and my comments were not addressed at you - but at those who really should know better.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 03:06 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Show me the data.
It was in the rape thread....I am not going to do all that research again, nor attempt to find it. I will give you this however, because it is handy
Quote:
In 1998, Bruce Rind, Philip Tromovitch, and Robert Bauserman published a meta-analysis of the effects of child sexual abuse using college samples in the Psychological Bulletin. Contradicting the popular view that child sexual abuse inevitably causes severe and long-lasting psychological damage, the authors reported that the relationship between a self-reported history of child sexual abuse and psychopathology was quite weak. They concluded subjects who had been sexually abused were nearly as well-adjusted as those who were not. Their results were similar to earlier studies using community samples (Bauserman & Rind, 1997; Rind & Tromovitch, 1997). In the article, they reported even more provocative findings-that 11% of female and 37% of male respondents retrospectively indicated their short-term reactions to the sexual contact had been positive.

The authors were careful to emphasize that lack of harm doesn't mean the adult-child sexual contact is morally permissible: "If it is true that wrongfulness in sexual matters does not imply harmfulness ... then it is also true that lack of harmfulness does not imply lack of wrongfulness ... [T]he findings of the current review do not imply that moral or legal definitions of or view on behaviors currently classified as CSA should be abandoned or even altered" (p. 47).

There was no response to the article for several months. Then, what has been called the "political storm of the century for the field of psychology" (Garrison & Kobor, 2002) began.1 The article came to the attention of several conservative groups, including radio personality Dr. Laura Schlessinger, whose "Dr. Laura" radio show attracts millions of listeners. Dr. Laura criticized the article and its authors as well as the APA (American Psychological Association) for publishing it. She called it "junk science at its worst" and claimed the point of the article was to normalize pedophilia. She even implied that two of the authors traveled over the world to promote adult-child sex (Lilienfeld, 2002b, p. 178).

Schlessinger then urged Congress to take formal action against the APA. Raymond D. Fowler, Chief Executive Officer of the APA, initially defended the article and the peer review process (Garrison & Kobor, 2002). But Schlessinger, Congress, and others kept up the pressure. It became clear Congress was going to condemn not only the article but the APA. So On June 9, 1999 Dr. Fowler backtracked in a letter to House Majority Whip, Tom DeLay. He now wrote "Clearly, the article included opinions of the authors that are inconsistent with APA's stated and deeply held positions on child welfare and protection issues." He went on to explain that the APA was seeking an independent expert evaluation of the scientific quality of the article. This was the first time in the APA's 107-year history that it had taken such an action (Lilienfeld, 2002b).

Fowler's capitulation didn't save the APA and Rind and his colleagues from condemnation by Congress. On July 12th, 1999, the United States House of Representatives voted 355 to 0, with 13 members abstaining, to condemn the article's conclusions. Eighteen days later the United States Senate unanimously passed the resolution. It states, in part:

Whereas the Psychological Bulletin has recently published a severely flawed study ... which suggests that sexual relationships between adults and children are less harmful than believed and might be positive for "willing" children ... Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring) that Congress condemns and denounces all suggestions in the article "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples" [PDF File] that indicate that sexual relationships between adults and "willing" children are less harmful than believed ... [and condemns] any suggestion that sexual relations between children and adults — regardless of the child's frame of mind — are anything but abusive, destructive, exploitive, reprehensible, and punishable by law. (106 Congress, 1st Session, H. Con. Res. 107) ...

This resolution ignores the fact Rind and his colleagues were not the first or only researchers to report not all victims of child sexual abuse suffer serious and lasting psychological damage. Other researchers also report many respondents showed few or no symptoms and found the relationship between adult-child sexual contact and later physical or psychological problems to be highly complex (e.g., Berliner & Conte, 1993; Beitchman, et al, 1991, 1992; Dolezal, & Carballo-Dieguez, 2002; Finkelhor, 1990; Friedrich, Whiteside, & Talley, 2004; Levitt & Pinnell, 1995; Parker & Parker, 1991; Pope & Hudson, 1992; Runtz, 2002; Stander, Olson, & Merrill, 2002).


http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume16/j16_2.htm

The assertions of great harm of sexual conflict and violation are as blown out of proportion as is the claim of the rampant practice of sexual violation on the part of men. There is a kernel of truth to the claims, but the assertions are primarily politically based not science or fact based. Womens pressure groups are making a play for gaining more power over men, and the story of combative and/or violative sex is handy to their aims so they play it up. Almost no one is open to talking about the truth.
lockeWiggins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 03:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
are you referring to the "can a woman ask to be raped" forum. Just found it. going to check it out if so apologies if my statement seemed forward.
0 Replies
 
lockeWiggins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 03:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
Interesting, thank you for this.
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 03:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
You lack necessary knowledge of the history surrounding discussion of the issue of rape here on A2K to properly understand the context for my comment. This is not meant to imply a failure on your part, and my comments were not addressed at you - but at those who really should know better.
What you have shown yet again is that your mind is closed, which is annoying in light of your delusions that you possess unusual quantities of rationality and fairness.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  6  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 05:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Show me the data.
It was in the rape thread....I am not going to do all that research again, nor attempt to find it.

I figured as much.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 05:46 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
I figured as much.
as well you should have, considering that I have already said a few times that in my opinion we do not yet have enough people with open minds who are willing to deal with reality to talk productively on this subject. Bill, Ionus and I gave it a good go, but we need a few more. Getting into it now is not a good use of my time.

EDIT: I came into this thread because there is a slim chance that lockeWiggins is such a person, but absent finding one I am not interested in restarting the conversation yet.
lockeWiggins
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 06:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well my main reason for entering this forum was not to throw names or insult others intelligence. I am only looking for information, and to clarify and solidify my opinion on the issue. It seems as if this topic has been discussed in great length between the parties involved. If you could give me the name of the post that this was debated on I would like to take a look.
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 06:09 pm
@lockeWiggins,
Here you go:


Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?


Warning: It is currently about 400 pages long.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 06:21 pm
@lockeWiggins,
Quote:
It seems as if this topic has been discussed in great length between the parties involved.
Though no progress was made because no definition for rape has been agreed to, nor is their any agreement as to the proper use of law and state coercion in relationship/sexual choices, nor is there any agreement as the the extent that sexual conflict/trespass is a problem, nor is there any agreement as to the degree that human sexual practices can be altered by regulation and the laying down of morality guilt trips, nor is there any agreement to the assertion that women still need or should get preferential treatment, nor is there agreement to the assertion that the two individuals can both be in charge of the sexual interaction at all times.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Apr, 2011 07:46 pm
@Butrflynet,
Thanks re link, Butrflynet.
0 Replies
 
lockeWiggins
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 10:31 am
@Butrflynet,
reading it now
0 Replies
 
justASC
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 05:58 pm
@Dosed,
The better question would be "Did someone rape me?" Drunkenness is not an excuse for someone to rape you. Agreeing to third base does not mean you agree to sex. It definitely sounds like rape to me. I know it's hard, but don't feel badly about *him*. Unfortunately by now, it would be very difficult to prove in court and the court is already biased against victims of rape. Know, however, that if you decide to take it to court, you at least have one person who believes you, for what it's worth. What you can do regardless is to seek out counseling. My heart goes out to you. Good luck in whatever you choose to do! Smile
justASC
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 06:04 pm
@Dosed,
Don't listen to them. The vast majority of these replies are from myth-spouters - people who spout off about topics they haven't actually researched. You're not an idiot, and it wasn't your fault. You are responsible for what *you* do, not for what *someone else* does to you.
0 Replies
 
justASC
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 06:07 pm
@Dosed,
"I never said yes." <-That is exactly what makes it rape. Anyone who says otherwise is a rape apologist. Technically, you can't say "No" in your sleep, and for the most part, people don't actually use the word "No" in rejections to anything else. It's always, "I'd love to, but I can't" sort of thing. Why is it expected to be different when it comes to sex?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 06:14 pm
@justASC,
Quote:
"I never said yes." <-That is exactly what makes it rape. Anyone who says otherwise is a rape apologist. Technically, you can't say "No" in your sleep, and for the most part, people don't actually use the word "No" in rejections to anything else. It's always, "I'd love to, but I can't" sort of thing. Why is it expected to be different when it comes to sex?


Lord I been rape as I had awoken with a sexual partner preforming a sex act on me a few times in my life.

Lord I was so in the dark about the evilness of this deed that I was in fact grateful to my rapist.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 06:21 pm
@justASC,
Quote:
people don't actually use the word "No" in rejections to anything else. It's always, "I'd love to, but I can't" sort of thing. Why is it expected to be different when it comes to sex?


Perhaps the duty to be clear concerning your wishes is because we are talking about labeling another human being with the label of a rapist and perhaps taking his or even her freedom away for a few decades.

Somehow in the light of the above asking that the "victim" be clear on her desires is not all that must to ask for.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 09:39 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Lord I was so in the dark about the evilness of this deed that I was in fact grateful to my rapist.


Another insensitive quotation to be put up on the wall of Bill Has No Shame.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 09:44 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
Another insensitive quotation to be put up on the wall of Bill Has No Shame
.

You might wish to explain how sex between sexual partners started when one of them is asleep is rape in one case but not in another.

Is it because one is male and the other is female?

Now we also are talking about sexual partners here not someone who had crawls by way of a window into the house in the middle of the night.

In the few times in my 62 years this event of being awaken had occur not one of the women had ask me for permission ahead of time and took the fact that we was lovers and in bed together as a blanket permission to perform a sex act on my then sleeping body.

Now by comments on this thread there seem to be a feelings that such behaviors would be rape in the case of a woman who was the sleeping one and to me that is as silly as if I had cry rape in a similar situation.

To sum up there got to be a little common sense shown on the subject of when rape had occur and when it had not occur and that common sense seem totally to be lacking in the crazy PC atmosphere on this thread.

Second if I had awaken and stated very softly that this is wonderful and I love you but I am not in the mood and the lady did not register this and kept going then according to the logic here she would also be guilty of rape and should be send off to prison for many years.

To me if I wish to had withdrawn permission to a sexual partner I would had have a duty to stated that in a clear and no question about it statement and that also for some reason does not seem to apply on this thread as far as women are concern.
0 Replies
 
 

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