Did I get raped?

If I may, consent is a hotly debated issue in courtrooms . Saying 'yes' is not a pre-requisite to sex (otherwise most of the male population of the world would be locked up) - consent is. So to automatically say this meets the legal definition of date rape can be misleading.

The thing is, Dosed was in control of her own actions (no one else was), and Dosed made many moves towards the other guy, even after they engaged in foreplay. As pointed out before, she asked the guy if he was wearing a condom. In most any situation in the world, if she didn't say no after that and kept responding, consent would very much be implied. Certainly her friend in the front seat thought that Dosed was giving consent.

Dosed - I'm not having a go at you here. Having read your posts, I think you actually believe that you gave implicit consent. Is it that you are struggling with your feelings about yourself after the incident?

And what to do about it? Being human we make mistakes, and we can have many regrets in life. But knowing this (that we are human and make mistakes) we can (and should) forgive ourselves, so long as we know we have learnt from it. The biggest regrets often occur when we don't learn from our mistakes. Have a think about your feelings of how things worked out (and who you are/who you want to be), and go about making sure you are always (and can always be) true to yourself.

Well, from what I read, you didn't actually say the word "no"

however, you also indicated you didn't want sex to happen.

I believe only you can determine if you have been raped, regardless of others opinions.

I will say though, for any woman to ask the man if he had a condom does not automatically make it NOT rape.

If I was about to be raped, although the rapist may pay no attention to me, I would certainly think about the fact a condom may keep me alive later on, and if the situation presented itself, I would ask him to put if on, if he was going to rape me anyway. Depending how I thought he would respond, I might tell him I have a disease, to encourage him to use on.

I agree with Vikorr that having the guy (or whoever) have to ask is a real push for calling a situation rape. The 400th time you two have sex, you have to ask?
Saying no is the important thing, not that it always works. I said a loud no the one time I was raped.

I see Dlowan's take, that our poster was incapacitated. I think this is a slippery slope, given her not many minutes before straddling of him on the stairs.
Honey, if I straddle you, I am interested and saying yes. That was the consent, right there.

I think, though, that our poster was confused by the sight of this guy with his pants down, at the same time she was apparently moaning in a way that didn't worry the driver.

Chai, just to clarify what you said (because 'did not want it to happen' can be used in multiple contexts):
- if she did not want it to happen at the time she has been raped
- if she did not want it to happen at the time, yet gave consent she has been (from a non legal definition) raped, but the man is not a rapist (in both non legal and legal sense)
- if she wanted it to happen at the time, and later had regrets (after the fact did not want it to happen), then she has not been raped, but rather made poor choices.

That is only for clarification.

From your manner of writing I gather you're an educated person of some sort - but your education cannot, possibly, have included the sciences. Any idiot with even minimal scientific training would know to gallop off to a first-aid station have a blood sample drawn. The chemicals in "date rape" drugs have a half-life in blood plasma of approximately 36 hours. Urine test by now would likely show nothing, but DNA (saliva test) keeps traces of strong drugs for years. Do you want to know for sure if it was date rape or not? Sitting there watching a computer screen won't solve anything - move!

My guess is that years from now you will look back on this as a formative experience but you're not sure what is being formed. I think you are trying to classify this into a neat box in your mind. Years from now will you tell your daughter to be careful around alcohol because when you are plastered, things can happen that you really don't want to have to explain to your children or will you tell her to be careful because men will ply you with alcohol and rape you? Certainly both are true in cases, but which one will you tell her happened to you? Some of each? Maybe the question is whether you will look back and see yourself as a victim or an idiot. Personally I'd choose idiot. Victims learn fear while idiots hopefully smarten up.

You honestly think that our poster would be better off labeling herself an idiot? Speak for yourself. She still has options to be a non-victim.

I'll pick idiot. With some sympathy.

It does not have to be either, unwanted sex is not a problem for everybody, it depends upon their nature. Lots of people are raped and never care much or suffer any ill effects, this idea that a raped woman is always harmed is pure fantasy.

Dosed can make up her own mind if she was stupid or if she was a victim or some other label, and other people will make up their minds. It is her life though, she has the last word, and so long as she does not set out to harm others I dont much care what she decides to do.

That's a rather limiting, and misleading question. There are options other than either being a victim or seeing yourself as an idiot.

Try (as a generic way of looking at things) : In this one instance I :
- was human and made mistakes
- simply made a choice I later regretted
- didn't have foresight
- was looking for excuses to do something that I later regretted
- have had a learning experience
etc.

all of which assumes that something happened that Dosed feels strongly enough about not happening again that she will do the work required to avoid it happening again, which we do not yet know.

I think you may have missed the point of my post.

Ya, I get it....but we have yet to know that Dosed has come to the conclusion that there is a problem, that anything wrong happened. You are as guilty as everyone else of putting the cart before the horse.

I think Dosed has already come to that conclusion. The question from here is how she internalizes the cause of that problem. Vikorr's possibilities are as good as any.

Dosed, there is a columnist on sex issues, Dan Savage, and he occasionally gets letters just like yours. You might benefit from reading through his archives. The column is called "Savage Love".

I don't think so , you should lead to a leading hospital to test your body and they can say about that what happened to you.

As dlowan has already pointed out, "rape" means "sexual penetration without consent." As it appears that dosed was incapable of forming consent due to her staggeringly intoxicated condition, it really doesn't matter if she looked like she wanted to have sex or not. She didn't consent because she couldn't consent. If penetration occurred (even if it was a finger rather than a penis), then it was some type of "rape."*

This may sound unfair to the man who, after all, probably thought that he was getting nothing but "go" signals from dosed. But that's too bad: a man is not required to read a woman's mind, but he required to be aware of her general condition, including her ability to consent to sexual penetration. It is indeed a cruel fact of nature that some of the horniest women are also the some of the drunkest, but that's no excuse to take advantage of that fact or those women.

It seems that dosed is going to take the "sadder but wiser" approach to this situation, which may be just as well, given the evidentiary problems a prosecutor would face if charges were actually considered. The much bigger and more immediate problem, then, is dosed's drinking problem -- which I'm not sure if anyone here is treating with the seriousness it deserves. I have been drinking for over thirty years (almost but not quite continuously) and, although I have been drunk plenty of times, I have never blacked out, nor have I ever awakened in the morning with little memory of the previous night. Drinking to the point where you forget significant periods of time is one of the signs of a problem drinker. The fact, dosed, that you also got yourself into a situation where you think you might have been raped is a huge warning sign that you might have a serious issue.** Your sexual escapade, then, is just a symptom of the problem. If you treat the symptom, you may feel better in the short term, but the underlying condition will continue to manifest itself.


*I'll just add that most states no longer have "rape" laws -- they tend to characterize it as "sexual assault" instead.

** Other warning signs include drinking so much that you forget that you got tattooed, joined the military, or voted Republican.

Good stuff from Joe and dlowan.

It sounds like there are at least two separate issues here.

1.) Should you bring rape charges against this guy?

You seem to have already resolved this. No. (Have you resolved this completely, or is it part of what you're asking?)

2.) Is it reasonable that you found this experience upsetting?

I think so, yes. It sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things in dealing with the aftermath, I'd suggest counseling too. That this was the first time you had sex adds a level of complication and emotion to it. I'm sorry that's how things happened for you.

What I find truly impressive in your learned opinion is that you overlook the obvious: hold an evidentiary hearing! What's the point of grilling the driver - who must have kept eyes on road, since they all got home safely - and not asking the only other party in the back seat of the car?

Call up the guy, meet him for coffee, see if he has any recollection of the event and if he thinks he can answer the original question here. Talk of psychological counseling or legal proceedings before accurately establishing facts is ludicrous.

Didn't you write somewhere that your dad was a policeman? Ask him to explain "Just the facts, ma'am". Psychobabble never solved a problem.

The issue here isn't unwanted sex, it's getting so plastered you can't remember a damn thing. Many people I know have woken up in apartments or hotel rooms with no recollection of how they got there or even who the person sleeping next to them might be. At least Dosed isn't a complete blackout drunk.