I'm just sayin'...

Excellent place to start!

1: distinguished by some unusual quality; especially : being in some way
superior <our special blend>
2: held in particular esteem <a special friend>
3a : readily distinguishable from others of the same category : unique
<they set it apart as a special day of thanksgiving> b : of, relating to,
or constituting a species : specific
4: being other than the usual : additional, extra
5: designed for a particular purpose or occasion

Clearly some are more inclined toward #1 ("especially: being in some way
superior") and #2 ("held in particular esteem"), while others favor #3a
("readily distinguishable from others of the same category : unique").

Im going to pluck this piece of your statement ( and forgive me, im not quoting you to rant AT you, im simply starting with something you said..)


But I think, the reason chai and boom are butting foreheads against their monitors at each other is that they both have a different VIEW of this word, yet their very sentiments are exactly the same.


She will correct me if Im wrong, but I bet I am not far off the mark here..

When chai says " no. i dont think my husband is special"
She means, quite literally what is stated above . Not that he isnt special TO HER, but that he does not possess any REAL definitive special quality that is rare to find in any other person.

Boom seems to be saying that same thing.
That kids do not always possess any special, over the top , definitive quality, but that they are SPECIAL to their family and friends. And that as adults we should treat them "special" meaning, give them a little more lee-way than we would someone else, but not cater to them excessively like most parents are doing today.

^ which.. is almost exactly how chia views kids and parents

you two are saying much the same things, with different perspectives on the word special.
Just like Boom and I did at the beginning of the thread.. we think exactly the same on a lot of this topic, but I was using the word special in a different context, yet attempting to achieve ideas that she was saying as well.




alright

shoot me where i am wrong on this please..

Instead of arguing about the meaning of 'special' why not just address the topic? I think we all know what 'special' means.

Generally speaking, todays parents seem to focus so much more on their children than my and my parents' generation. They are helicopter parents; they book them in lessons 5 nights a week; they chauffeur them around from playdate to lessons to playdate; their children are stellar, of course, in school and extracurricular activities; they ACT like their children are MORE special than anyone else's kids. They allow them to 'be' themselves without any consideration to other people - I see more kids having hissy fits in public today than ever before. Many of the children portrayed in commercials are brats, demanding, acting out, berating or sneering at their parents. This is a reflection of what's really going on in society. That's the point I think Chai was trying to make. What makes your kids so special that he has license to be a brat, intrude on someone else's space, invade your privacy and quiet? They're not being disciplined because their parents think their kids are so 'special', that they deserve the right to be whoever and whatever they feel like. It's a kid-focussed society right now, and the pendulum will eventually return to centre.

and just for a side jab and third perspective...

I still think of 'special' to refer to kids with learning disabilities, other wise handicapped, retarded and physically disabled people...

The word special is used way too often when it comes to kids and encompasses too many possibilities. I think people are forgetting that and/or not understanding that.

I never said my life was empty and meaningless. Never. My life was great. I didn't want to have kids and I didn't go out looking to adopt one. My life was different, that's all.

My problem is that you've generalized from one person to an entire group of people.

Believe it or not, younger people are perfectly capable of reading invitations, too. And I've met plenty of older people who were rude, or uncouth, or felt entitled.

I also think it's hilarious that you're so cliched about it. "Young people today; they have no manners!"

I see we're back to the whole playdate thing....

Same players, same discussion: I hate that term "play date"

Do you see why I think you have an issue, Chai?

I just saw that I sidetracked everyone with my comment on the term special.

We should all stop and focus on the real issue: Chai Is Wrong.

hahahahahahah

you almost made me lose my coffee...



Now lets see if people begin a wandel rant..

I said GENERALLY SPEAKING, and you don't sound amused.

Whatever.

That is very close to my meaning mame, and what I believe GC was saying.

This part especially rings true...What makes your kids so special that he has license to be a brat, intrude on someone else's space, invade your privacy and quiet? They're not being disciplined because their parents think their kids are so 'special', that they deserve the right to be whoever and whatever they feel like.

Related to that, I have seen the attending increase of adults of a certain age that were these children, who still feel they are entitled to being the center of the universe.

Perhaps the pendulum will begin to swing in the other direction, as these people, or their children most likely, get SO self absorbed that the attitude will be "I'm the important one, I've always been the most important one. These children are here to continue to satisfy MY needs, not the other way around. I'll be the one to whine about the slightest inconvenience, and they can just accept what is left."

Will this be a good thing? Not once the pendulum swings all the way, but at some point there will be balance.

Set, you're reading along...is it not true that at various times in history the value, importance placed on children has varied widely?

I mean, if there was a 50/50 chance your child wasn't going to live to see 1 yr, why invest everything in each one?

IMO, in the big picture of human history, it has been shown time and again how little value a particular person has.
During the Black Death, what was it, something like 50% of Europe died? I remember sitting there and letting that sink in. Anyone of European heritage, alive today, are here because the the fluke that someone along the way didn't get the plague. The people that didn't die then weren't born with some specialness, except they were either resistant to the disease, or through pure chance, was born somewhere the plague was not that heavy.

The fact many of us, or our parents, or children are/were around was a mere crap shoot.

Maybe you are I are alive today because our great great great great grandfather, who was a vile serial killer, sadist, rapist, etc. wasn't caught, or wasn't caught in time before he got his wife, sister, daughter, neighbor or complete stranger pregnant, and that woman didn't miscarry or induce abortion.

So much for being special.

Wow! You have been around longer than most of us.

Fine . . . and if every child is to be considered special, then none of them are unique in that regard, so the definition is contradicted. I've already addressed being held in particular esteem--children are held in particular esteem by those who know and love them, not by everyone.

But what's the opposite of that? We shouldn't consider every child special, check. But does that mean that NO child should be considered special, either?

I think it really depends on what group we're talking about.

Kids are these bundles of potentiality, that can be nurtured or smooshed. The dumbest kid may well be an amazing musician. The most physically awkward kid may well be an astoundingly creative thinker. I think it's incumbent upon certain populations to nurture rather than smoosh. That includes parents and educators.

That doesn't necessarily include generic bystanders, but I very much agree that what really seems to be bothering people is more a matter of manners than anything else. I think those bumper stickers are obnoxious. I'd never go against a stated preference by a host for an adults-only party. But that's manners, not a measure of how special I think my kid is.

It was a hard time wandel, a hard time.

I've been avoiding that rather large elephant in this room, but it is a point worth visiting. When i was a boy, i played baseball, basketball and ran on the track team for my part of organized sports. I was only average at baseball and basketball, and since it was a small town, that meant that i made the team. Track was my one opportunity to shine, and i went for long distance running. In ninth grade, the coach pointed out that i was only so-so at the mile, and that there were stronger sprinters in the quarter mile, and told me that if i really wanted to make the team, i should stop thinking of the half mile as a long distance run (as it was then still considered for high school sports) and run it as though it were a sprint. It was damned hard, but i applied myself, and in my last two years of school, i was a blue ribbon performer at several levels. So was our mile relay team with four quarter milers--i was good enough to be one of them. We were a blue ribbon team up to the level of the county, and once took the district blue ribbon, too.

But i actually reached the point at which i was "special" at the half mile. In my last two years of school, i won the conference, county, district and regional track meets for the half mile. I could have gone to state in my final year, but i was realistic enough to know i wouldn't win it (that year, half mile at state was won with a time two seconds faster than my personal best, which would have left me in about fourth or fifth place--since i would have attended at my own expense, i didn't regret my choice not to go).

I wasn't the greatest half miler, but two years in a row i showed myself to be superior to literally thousands of other half milers who had worked and trrained as i had. I would have deeply resented being in a situation in which everyone who showed up to run had been given a prize and put on the podium to be cheered for.

In the special olympics, everyone is a winner, and everyone gets a ribbon. But that's not real life, and the meaning of special there relies upon the participants not understanding that they have failed to perform to a superior standard. That's not the "special" people contemplate for their children, and it's not a standard which will aid those children as they go through life. I may not be a special adult, either--but once i was one of the few thousand sprinters in this country who could run a half mile in under two minutes, and that was something special.

There doesn't necessarily have to be a polar opposite of that. But i have in fact addressed what sorts of bases can be used to consider a child special in my last post. If a child genuinely acheives something worthyof special notice, give it to them.

I agree about potential. I've already mentioned that in this thread. That the best thing to do for children is to identify with them the things in which they have a particular interest and then encourage them to excel in that area, if they are able.

OK, I agree.

I do think that the opposite-of-specialness doesn't do anyone any favors either -- when either everyone is given a trophy or nobody is given a trophy.

By the way, part of this goes back to something we have often discussed here. When i was a boy, there were no play dates. I'm not beating up on the idea, i'm just pointing it out. In those days, we were often left to be children--not just allowed to go outside and play on our own, but positively encouraged to do so. ("You kids are making me crazy, get out from under my feet, go outside and play, for god's sake!")

So yes, many of us once spent an afternoon exploring the potentials of a mere stick. I can't say that was better, just different. It is, of course, up to each parent today to decide if it is advisable to treat their own children that way.

How did all that "everyone get's a trophy" come about, and why?

Was it "Let's not hurt anyone's feelings" or was it seriously done with the intent that kids are not going to notice that everyone is standing there holding the same trophy?

I don't see it being so horrible to say to a kid (more or less) "you know what? you do suck at this, but hey, you're pretty good at that"