I'm just sayin'...

@wandeljw,

George Carlin holds up a mirror for people to look into. No veils, no gels, no fancy lighting.

Some can look at the mirror straight on - others look over their shoulder to see who the mirror is for.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I think the problem is that schools don't think anyone is special and that their objective is to make sure we're all the same.

you and I agree completely, Im just using special differently, but I think how you worded it is much more appropriate.
Schools today do NOT see differences anymore, instead try to cram everyone into one thing with out acknowledging learning rates, abilities OR 'special' characteristics. Very drone like..

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@shewolfnm,

shewolf, you remind me of the experience I had in school.

I was a fast learner when it came to reading, English, science. Trying to remember back, when it came to basic math, the adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing, I was above average.
First "challenge" (God forbid I say problem) was that I was absolutley dense when it came to the dreaded fractions. WTF did 3/8's mean? Eventually it sank in, but I could see no purpose to it. I just learned if I did this, then that, I got an answer that wasn't marked wrong. But, I had no idea why it was right.
Oh my God, then at some point before high school, a teacher touched upon algebra for a little while, just to introduce it to us. I totally, absolutely had no idea what she was talking about. So, I zoned out, thinking "I know this is something I'll never have to use in real life. It's stupid"
When I got to high school and took freshman algebra, no amount of explaining, no amount of study on my part, no prayers could get me to understand it. Now instead of thinking "it's stupid", I thought "I'm stupid" I remember this guy even telling me I was dumb. Because I barely squeeked by in that class, I got put in the guppy geometry class and never attempted anything further.
At some future time, in college I finally "got it", but it was still not thrilled with math. Not until I found practical applications to it.
Today, I use the same techniques I had such a hard time learning, because the results help me make decisions and judgements, and I find it quite fun.

Now, if back then classes were slowed down to accomodate the lowest common denominator (me), no one would have succeded.

So, I was extremely not special in certain areas. Big deal. Frankly, I understand math a lot more than the average adult does today, at least I think I do.
So what? I sucked at something then, and I don't now. Some things I sucked at then, and now.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I do think all kids are special until we beat it out of them.

So then, if no one beats it out of them, we would all be special adults?

Like was in another post, if all kids (people) are special, that makes it not special.

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In this video, Carlin is saying to me that the Chicago Bears will win the next Super Bowl and that the Chicago Cubs will win the next World Series.

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@chai2,

I think our disagreement lies in how we define "special".

I think it means "different from" you seem to think it means "extraordinary".

Most of the people I know think their own kids are extraordinary but I don't know anyone who thinks they all are.

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@chai2,

Yup, yup and more yup.

That is STILL me to this day.
English, reading, comprehension, science etc.. I accelerate in. My iq scores are widely varied all based on that too.
My mathematical numbers and comprehension have tested as low as the 130s yet my reading and comprehension has been over 160 before.
WIDE range

and yes, if most of my classes were crammed into one common denominator, I would never have been able to go as far as I did and learn the way I did.

I am noticing in Jillians classes now that this is what they are doing to kids.
She gets math very easily, spelling? not so much .
Her ability to communicate, and her comprehension of things are way above her grade level. Both teachers have said and so has others in her school. That is the one thing that people remark on the most with her.
Will that be fostered? will that be incorporated into the way she is taught? No. Why? because they are all bending the kids backwards and forwards as if to make them all only reach one level of a limbo game with no regards to WHO can do what and how.
I believe this thought process and this " leave no child behind" type of mindset is damaging to the classes and kids as a whole, not just an individual.

We would work better with the "self esteem" issue if our schools were given BACK the ability to tailor lessons to each child and teach them to thrive on their natural abilities instead of putting them all in one line like sheep

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I think it means "different from" you seem to think it means "extraordinary".

I agree. ( not aimed at chai.. just agreeing in general)
I think that is very common.

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@boomerang,

Agreed.
We are all special in the sense that each person is unique.
(My children, of course, ARE extraordinary.)

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

George Carlin holds up a mirror for people to look into. No veils, no gels, no fancy lighting.

Some can look at the mirror straight on - others look over their shoulder to see who the mirror is for.

I just want to copy and paste that allllll over the place.
Very true

and like chai said earlier, he IS as funny as he is BECAUSE he hits on reality.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I think our disagreement lies in how we define "special".

I think it means "different from" you seem to think it means "extraordinary".

Most of the people I know think their own kids are extraordinary but I don't know anyone who thinks they all are.

Actually no.
Personally when I hear "special" I have to first look to see if their kid is retarded. It's even become a joke that retarded kids are called "special"

In the parlance of regular kids, no, I don't equate the word special with extraordinary.

Your last sentence is so funny to me, really.
Most people think their own kids are extraordinary.
No one thinks all kids are extraordinary.
Now how does that make any kind of sense?

Honestly, rather than the word special that we've been talking about, it's actually the title of GC's thread that is spot on.

Child Worship.

It's ALL about the children. Like somehow, they are more valuable humans.
Well, they aren't.
Simply put an individual child is no more valuable as a human than any other adult, elder, or adolescent.

If I were in an extreme situation where survival was going to be difficult, and I had to make the choice of having an adult who I knew had the skills needed for survival in a particular environment, or a kid who didn't, I'm gonna have to go with the adult. Yes, even if it were mine. If I choose my kid, we'd all be dead. If I choice the skilled person, there's a chance at least one person would survive.

If I could choose the skilled person and the kid should pair up without me, that would be optimal, but, if I had to be one of the parties moving on, if I make the wrong choice, all 3 of us will be dead.

Now of course this isn't a day to day example. However, I'm not one of those who thinks a child is to be given preferential treatment, just because they....well, actually I'm not really clear on why kids get preferencial treatment from so many adults. Except that they are worshipped and more special than they are.

1 Reply

@chai2,

Quote:

Your last sentence is so funny to me, really.
Most people think their own kids are extraordinary.
No one thinks all kids are extraordinary.
Now how does that make any kind of sense?

Why doesn't it make sense? You think your husband's special and I don't. I think Mr. B is special and you don't. I think Mo is special but that my neighbor's kids are annoying. What's to get?

I don't think "it's ALL about the children". I think very little of "it" is about the children, really. Even when we think it's about the children, it isn't. I watched an amazing documentary the other day called "Nursery University" about the fight to get kids into the "right" nursery school in NYC. It really isn't about the kids at all.

If I were in a survival situation I would chose Mo above all others. We might both die but at least I gave him a better chance.

In what way are kids give preferential treatment? Do you mean in a "women and children first" sort of way?

1 Reply

@chai2,

boomerang wrote:

I do think all kids are special until we beat it out of them.

chai2 wrote:

So then, if no one beats it out of them, we would all be special adults?

Like was in another post, if all kids (people) are special, that makes it not special.

Some people have unique talents, like individual artists.
That applies to people of all ages.

David

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Traditionally (pre-political correctness)
special meant different in a way that is better; not worse.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Quote:
Your last sentence is so funny to me, really.
Most people think their own kids are extraordinary.
No one thinks all kids are extraordinary.
Now how does that make any kind of sense?

Why doesn't it make sense? You think your husband's special and I don't. I think Mr. B is special and you don't. I think Mo is special but that my neighbor's kids are annoying. What's to get?

Naw, I don't think my husband is special. He's a guy that is compatible with me. He's been compatible with other people, and so have I. He's got his good and bad, just like everyone else. Perhaps he can perform a certain task better than the majority of people, and the ability to do that could be considered special, since it's more than the majority of people can do. But, that doesn't make HIM special. Just because I happen to love him doesn't make him special. Just because he happens to love me doesn't make me special.

Change the words of your statement about being extraordinary...
Most people think their houses are clean.
No one thinks all houses are clean.

Ergo, many people are wrong in thinking their houses are clean.

Ergo, many people are wrong in thinking their children are extraordinary.
If, as you say, most people think their kids are extraordinary, than most kids are extraordinary.
Since this isn't true (if most kids were extraordinary, that would make them ordinary)
No one thinks all kids are extraordinary, and this is true.
Most kids aren't extraordinary, plan and simple. Just because people are prejudiced toward their own chiden just make it a prejudice toward their own children, not fact.

I don't think "it's ALL about the children". I think very little of "it" is about the children, really. Even when we think it's about the children, it isn't. I watched an amazing documentary the other day called "Nursery University" about the fight to get kids into the "right" nursery school in NYC. It really isn't about the kids at all.

NOW you're getting it. Yes, it IS about the parents. If MY children are special, then "I" am a great person.
THAT is why children are worshipped by many nowadays, because it makes the worshipper the great guy.

If I were in a survival situation I would chose Mo above all others. We might both die but at least I gave him a better chance.

What I said was you needed the skilled person for any chance of survival. If you had to be one of the parties to move on, there would be no survival for either if the child were chosen. All 3 would die.

In what way are kids give preferential treatment? Do you mean in a "women and children first" sort of way?

No, more in the "we really can't have a discussion that all children are not special/extraordinary/worshipped without some people thinking things like 'GC was just saying that to be funny', 'you must be anti-chidren/a child hater/not a parent to say such things'"

Preferential treatment? As in when adults are expected to tolerate misbehavior in public because "there just kids", like when special meals have to be prepared because the kid won't eat what everyone else is? Like as if everyone else is delighted with every aspect of their meal?
Children need to learn to adapt and deal with the world around them, not the world adapt to them. Accomodations for smaller size, different dexterity, etc is good. Same as it is good to accomodate someone in a wheelchair, or who is diabetic and can't eat the same meal. An example of accomodating a child would be to provide a quiet dim area for the child to sleep in when they run out of endurance and get cranky. Preferential treatment is making everyone put up with the cranky child, because the parents won't leave with them. Honestly? If your kid turns cranky, get them the **** out of there. Don't make the world deal with your lack of planning.

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What about a lunch special?

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@chai2,

You opened this discussion by saying, "I don't give a **** who disagrees with this."

I guess you weren't joking.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

I just got back from an errand, where I was graced with being able to spend some time with several special children. 2 of them spent the entire time trying to jerk some object out of each others hands, each of them screaming "MOMMYYYYYY....MOMMYYYYYY" They were probably around 5. I think there were trying to win the award of who would end up being the most persistant.
Then there was the 9 or 10 year old special child who stood amongst the rest of her family, intermitently shaking some object she was holding, so we could all enjoy her special talent of being able to create rhythems that are indiscernable to us adults...

Lol. This is a great example of selection bias and confirmation bias.

Did you count how many families were out that didn't annoy you?

And because of these few families you encountered, all of a sudden the world has a problem with "child worship."

(Not to mention that the examples you cite are the exact opposite of child worship; they're examples of parents neglecting their duties, not pursuing them over-zealously.)

If you're so special that you shouldn't be subjected to noisy kids, maybe you should avoid places where there are likely to be noisy kids. Or run your errands during times when kids aren't out.

You seem to have an issue with kids. Maybe you should move out to Sun City Georgetown, or something.

Also, btw, there is a thing called "spell check." I suggest you endeavor to learn it, so that we are not "persistant"-ly or even "intermitently" subjected to errors that are apparently "indiscernable" to you.

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drew dad, you have a persistant problem with assuming I have a problem with children.

If you don't like the fact I don't use spell check, don't read my posts, and/or put me on ignore, or not.

In fact, I haven't seen where one can spell check their words on A2K for quite some time. I didn't think the feature was available any more.

I'll mispell words as I see fit, and you can keep pointing out to me, as you wish.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

drew dad, you have a persistant problem with assuming I have a problem with children.

Since you regularly post things about how many awful parents and annoying kids you encounter, it's clear that you have an issue.

(And spell check is available from a number of sources, not just the site that you're visiting. Firefox has it built-in, and you can install an add-on for Internet Explorer.)

1 Reply

I'm just sayin'...

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