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Christian Fundamentalism and American Politics, Part 2

 
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 01:08 pm
I think you're right about this Scrat. We agree. And I think you're wise to point it out because it is a danger. But I've never said:

Quote:
if a concept springs--in part or wholly--from someone's religious beliefs, government should not give it the same consideration they would give any other concept derived from a purely secular viewpoint.


These ideas happen to be coming from this particular group of people who take their religion into the realm of control of others. And I do think the schools and public places should be religion free. Religion belongs in church and at home. It's a private matter. And I believe the founding fathers intended to try for this protection in the Constitution, but I know they were doubtful it could be regulated in this way. It does depend on all of us to vote our conscience.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 02:14 pm
Quote:
...I agree with you in most of this. Where I think we diverge is at the notion that if a concept springs--in part or wholly--from someone's religious beliefs, government should not give it the same consideration they would give any other concept derived from a purely secular viewpoint.



We don't disagree there at all!

In every thread I've ever discussed this topic, I have championed the right of religious people to allow their religions to impact on their choices.

BUT...if in the public arena, I do not want them to be in my face about it.

I advocate keeping religion and government separate, but by no means do I think people -- including elected representatives cannot be influenced or motivated by their religions philosophies. I honestly do not care if you are for or against something based on theistic consideration; atheistic considerations; agnostic considerations -- or whatever.


But state sponsored religious affectation bugs the crap out of me -- and I will fight it with every ounce of strength in my body.

ONE LAST THOUGHT: Some of the religious nonsense coming out of elected representative -- of ALL stripes -- makes me want to gag. But I recognize that it often is hypocrisy on such an apparent scale, it probably does more for my cause than for theirs.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 02:15 pm
the thought plickens; a civil rights attorney has challenged Utah's ban on polygamy. As I understand it, Utah banned polygamy as a condition of statehood but now the issue being brought up is First Admentment right to practice religion. Now obviously no sane man desires more than one wife (IMO) however, if we are dealing, sans fraud and minors, what exactly, is the legal basis for denial of polygamy and/or polyandry?
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 02:17 pm
Oops, my last post was directed to Scrat. I left that out.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 02:21 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Now obviously no sane man desires more than one wife (IMO)


Laughing Laughing
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 03:01 pm
McGentrix wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
Now obviously no sane man desires more than one wife (IMO)


Laughing Laughing


Just remember the chinese character for the word 'Discord' is a pictograph of two women under one roof !

Smile Very Happy Laughing
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 03:17 pm
Glad to learn that we're closer together on these things than it would at first appear. Cool
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 03:45 pm
I am more than sure that would apply to any woman with more than one husband as well.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 04:12 pm
yes, likely too much work..........however......there might be some advantages.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 03:15 pm
Well, I am on record here as advocating not only same-gender unions, but a legal union open to any number of consenting adults. I see no reasonable argument for government denying any adult the right to enter into a formal, committed relationship with any other adult or adults.
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Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 04:11 pm
(Lola and I will not giggle :wink:)







>Subject: Satan Goes To Church
>
> A few minutes before the church services started, the congregation was sitting in their pews and talking.
Suddenly, Satan appeared at the front of the church.
>
>
> Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to
get away from evil incarnate.
>
> Soon, the church was empty except for one elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew without
moving, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence.
>
> So Satan walked up to the man and said, "Do you know who I am?"
>
> The man replied, "Yep, sure do."
>
> "Aren't you afraid of me?" Satan asked.
>
> "Nope, sure ain't." said the man.
>
> "Don't you realize I can kill you with one word?" asked Satan.
>
> "Don't doubt it for a minute," returned the old man, in an even tone.
>
> "Did you know that I can cause you profound, horrifying AGONY for all eternity?" persisted Satan.
>
> "Yep," was the calm reply.
>
> "And you are still not afraid?" asked Satan.
>
> "Nope," said the old man.
>
> More than a little perturbed, Satan asked, " Why aren't you afraid of me?"
>
> The man calmly replied, "Been married to your sister for 48 years.
>
>
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 04:19 pm
Stradee wrote:

> The man calmly replied, "Been married to your sister for 48 years.
>
>


OMFG LOL I think I dated her several years back
Smile Very Happy Laughing
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 08:37 pm
LOL Stradee. That one caught me just right. It was a very pleasant, funny surprise.
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Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 09:18 pm
LOL, I agree Lola. Still smiling since receiving the e mail.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 09:32 am
Here's a very wonderful piece from Salon (you'll have to watch a quick ad to get the day pass)
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2004/01/17/satan/
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 12:46 pm
I haev to read those books. Thanks Blatham. Very Happy
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Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2004 06:02 pm
Blath,

Remember Kris Kristofferson's "Hellacious Acres" song? One of the lines written were "Admissions' free - ya pay to get out".

Dante's Inferno -

"Through me the way into the suffering city,
Through me the way to the eternal pain,
Through me the way that runs among the lost.
Justice urged on my high artificer;
My maker was divine authority,
The highest wisdom, and the primal love.
Before me nothing but eternal things were made,
And I endure eternally.
Abandon any hope ye who enter here


Duality and its extremes. Scary stuff.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2004 09:19 am
Wish I'd said this.

The author, Mark Ovard, is a Texas judicial candidate:

Quote:
The rationales given to explain why Christians support one party or another by Democrats tend to be "humanistic" rational - or psychological and pragmatic analysis.

There also is a bibilical and Christian explanation.

Jesus warns of false prophets, preachers and corrupt church officials who convert their own words to a claim they are the words of God - when actually they are the voice of Satan and speak for their own greed and self-glorification.

The most notable example is Pat Robertson. He preaches on the value of gold - literally the mineral itself; he has personal financial interests in gold mines - and then preaches as "Biblical" why a person should buy gold for finanicial security.

You will not find in the Bible Jesus explaining how a person should store gold as an investment in the future.

What Republicans do - if we discuss it on a psychological or humanistic level - is to present hate, bigotry, greed, and self-worship claiming it to be the word of God allowing people to praise themselves for being greedy, worldly and arrogant - and to claim God blesses them if they are so.

You will not hear the church leaders and preachers who also promote Republicanism ever quote Jesus that it is harder for a rich person to go to heaven than it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. In fact, they will immediately try to negate what Jesus says of this by claiming the "eye of the needle" just meant one of the gates to Jeruselum and therefore it is not difficult to be rich and to go to heaven at all - followed by their declaring that Jesus wants you to be rich.

But on a spiritual level such declarations are the lies of Satan and the corrupting of the Church by those who serve themselves and Satan within the Church as heretics.

This is the "Christian" response, as opposed to just the psychological analysis.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2004 12:07 pm
Quote:
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

I found this to be particularly ironic given the citation it followed. Rolling Eyes Cool
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Feb, 2004 12:07 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3445229.stm
0 Replies
 
 

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