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Christian Fundamentalism and American Politics, Part 2

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 03:21 pm
Of course, from the "Chrisitanity rots your brain" file:Most Americans are Gullible
Quote:
WHO Says the Bible Is Literally True?

A majority of Americans believe the Holy Bible is literally true and not just a book of stories that are meant to be interpreted as symbolic lessons, reports The Washington Times of a recent ABC News poll of 1,011 adults.

* 61 percent believe the story of the creation of the Earth in seven days as told in the book of Genesis is literally true.
* 60 percent believe in the story of Noah's ark, the global flood, and God's covenant to never destroy the Earth again.
* 64 percent believe that Moses really did part the Red Sea so the Jews could escape their Egyptian captors.

"These are surprising and reassuring figures, a positive sign in a postmodern world that seemed bent on erasing faith from the public square in recent years," the Rev. Charles Nalls, a priest with the Catholic-Anglican church, told The Times. "This poll tells me that America is reading the Bible more than we thought. There had been a tendency to decry or discount Bible literacy among the faithful."

However, the levels of literal belief in these three Bible stories differ among various Christian groups:

* Mainline Protestants: 75 percent believe in the story of creation, 79 percent in the Red Sea account, and 73 percent in Noah and the Ark.
* Evangelical Protestants:
* 87 percent believe in the creation story, 91 percent in the Red Sea, and 87 percent in Noah.Roman Catholics:
51 percent think the story of the creation is literally true, while 50 percent believe in the Red Sea story and 44 percent in the flood.

This may be the most interesting finding of all: Among those who said they had "no religion," 25 percent still believe in the creation story, almost a third believe in Moses and the Red Sea, and 29 percent believe in Noah and the Ark.

Here are some other fun facts to know and tell that are culled from two different Harris Polls taken in 2003. Among Christians in the United States:

* 93 percent believe in miracles.
* 95 percent believe in heaven.
* 93 percent in the Virgin Birth of Christ.
* 96 percent in Christ's Resurrection.
* 42 percent believe God is a male.
* 1 percent believe God is female.
* 38 percent believe God has no gender.
* 11 percent believe God is both genders.

Si it just me, or do we seem to be a nation of anti-intellectual goons?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Feb, 2004 03:36 pm
Fright'n isn't it? Stories told so often, many believe them to be true - irregardless of scientific proof to the contrary. I'm not talking about Christ's birth or resurrection which can be poo-pood on it's own merits, but the creation of earth, god's gender, and heaven/hell are not logical assumptions.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Feb, 2004 11:25 am
blatham wrote:
scrat said
Quote:
The government does not now prohibit any church from marrying anyone they choose,
Are you sure you want to make that claim?

My point was that there have been churches performing same-gender marriages for years. The government has not prohibited or attempted to prevent this practice. These marriages simply have not been acknowledged as legitimate in a legal sense.

But I suppose you could argue that the government has stepped in where polygamy is concerned. (They should not, by the way.)
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 04:21 pm
From the Beeb:Religion in American Politics
Quote:
How religion defines America
By Dr Richard Land
Southern Baptist Convention

Unlike some other Western countries, the United States remains an overwhelmingly religious society. The BBC programme What the World Thinks of God examines the modern world's relationship with God. Among those taking part is Dr Richard Land who explains how profoundly religion influences American society and politics.

The USA is a very religious society. Evidence abounds demonstrating Americans' deep and abiding religious convictions.

A Gallup Poll released in November 2003 found that six out of ten Americans said that religion was "very important" in their lives.


FAITH IN AMERICA
Protestant (White Evangelical) 30%
Roman Catholics 25%
Protestant (Liberal) 20%
Protestant (African-American) 8%
Jewish 2%
Other 15%
Source: City University of New York (2001)

In contrast, in Canada and the United Kingdom, two societies often perceived as quite similar to the United States, only 28% and 17% respectively described religion as similarly important in their lives.

A survey done in 2001 by the City University of New York Graduate Center found that 85% of Americans identify with some religious faith.

The same study concluded that by most standards the United States was a more professingly religious country than any European nations except Ireland and Poland.

Conservative belief

Most Americans believe in the literal truth of Old Testament stories
The religious convictions of Americans tend toward the conservative end of the spectrum.

An ABC news poll, done in February 2004, found that approximately 60% of Americans believe that the Genesis creation account, Noah's ark and a global flood, and Moses' parting of the Red Sea are "literally true."

Belief in the literal veracity of these biblical accounts was highest among the fastest growing segment of American faith, evangelical Protestantism (nearly 90% acceptance).

How does such robust religious faith impact and influence American government and the nation's domestic and foreign policies?

Religious vote

An ABC news exit poll taken on Election Day 2000 found that among the 42% of voters who attended religious services at least once a week, 58% voted for Bush.

Conversely, Gore won 61% among the 14% of Americans who reported they never attended religious services.


Perhaps 40% of President Bush's total raw vote was provided by self-identified "evangelical" Christians
Dr Richard Land
It is difficult to imagine the United States electing a candidate with the beliefs and policies of a George W. Bush, or for that matter a Ronald Reagan, without the strong role an increasingly conservative faith plays in tens of millions of Americans' lives.

Some estimates conclude that perhaps 40% of President Bush's total raw vote was provided by self-identified "evangelical" Christians.

Religion and society

How does this deep and abiding religious belief impact American society?

According to an ICM poll in January 2004, Americans believe in the supernatural (91%), an afterlife (74%), "belief in a God/higher power makes you a better human being" (82%), God or a higher power judged their actions (76%), and perhaps most tellingly "would die for their God/beliefs" (71%).

In 1880 Dostoyevsky wrote in The Brothers Karamazov that "If God does not exist, then everything is permissible."

The history of his native Russia, wracked by the atrocities of atheistic communism for most of the 20th century, serves as a most graphic example of the truth of his conclusion.

Nazism, above all detested religion because it called for allegiance to something greater than the state, namely God.

President Bush at the opening of a Bible fellowship centre in Texas
When 71% of Americans say they would die for their faith, they are pledging allegiance to a loyalty beyond their loyalty to their country and are saying the exact polar opposite of "my country, right or wrong."

It is very important at this point to make a critical distinction: to be willing to die for one's faith is utterly different than to kill for it.

The overwhelming majority of Americans, religious and otherwise, would never feel that it is morally acceptable to kill, or even discriminate against, someone because they were of a differing faith or no faith.

As an evangelical Christian, I would not only die for my faith, I would die for any person's right to live their lives according to the dictates of their own consciences.

My personal commitment to the soul liberty of every human being is as deep as my commitment to Jesus Christ as my Saviour and Lord.

Like virtually all Americans of faith, I believe that a person's relationship to his or her God is a sacred matter which no other human being or group of human beings (government or religious communion) has the right to forcibly interfere with or seek to coerce.

As an evangelical Christian I believe in the right to share my faith and to seek to persuade others, as they have an equal right to seek to persuade me, but force or coercion - never!
0 Replies
 
Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 04:38 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Of course, from the "Chrisitanity rots your brain" file:Most Americans are Gullible
Quote:
WHO Says the Bible Is Literally True?

A majority of Americans believe the Holy Bible is literally true and not just a book of stories that are meant to be interpreted as symbolic lessons, reports The Washington Times of a recent ABC News poll of 1,011 adults....

* 93 percent believe in miracles.
* 95 percent believe in heaven.
* 93 percent in the Virgin Birth of Christ.
* 96 percent in Christ's Resurrection.
* 42 percent believe God is a male.
* 1 percent believe God is female.
* 38 percent believe God has no gender.
* 11 percent believe God is both genders.

Si it just me, or do we seem to be a nation of anti-intellectual goons?


This is a perfect example of what I was talking about in this thread and some of the others.
Hobit here is allowed to have his own beliefs and we are have to respect those. Yet when a number of people believe in something HE doesn't believe in, they are minimalized and denigrated as anti-intellectual and goons.

Yet we are supposed to reply with calmness and understanding to a person who spits on our beliefs and seems to hate us for no other reason but our faith...

Boy it's hard to 'Turn the other cheek sometimes'
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:19 pm
And if you take offense, you'll be told that no one insulted you personally. Rolling Eyes
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:20 pm
No one did insult fedral personally. I find him attempting to play "victim" ridiculous.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:22 pm
I just wish I were half as accurate at picking lotto numbers. Cool
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:23 pm
Actually, Scrat, I was responding to your self serving whiny comment.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:31 pm
hobitbob wrote:
No one did insult fedral personally. I find him attempting to play "victim" ridiculous.


By your post, you were calling anyone who believed in:
The Bible
Noah
The Flood
Moses
Creation
Miracles
Heaven
The birth and resurrection of Christ
God

An anti-intellectual goon.

As a person who does believe in many of those above items I DO take offence and I DO believe that you directed it at me.

As posted previously, those of us with faith are told to accept others beliefs and lack of beliefs with openmindedness in the name of diversity and yet people like yourself seem to lack the basic tolerance to accept people with differing views without spitting all over them.

The open mind can always accept a closed mind by making room for it in their own world view.
The closed mind cannot accept the open mind because it will bring their carefully constructed world crashing down around their ears.

Take a look at the vein of your post and look in the mirror to find the truly closed mind on this board.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 05:34 pm
Okay, you are an anti-intellectual goon. You also smell and your mother dresses you strangely. Feel better now? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 06:33 pm
Another reason I think the fundamentalists are backward thinking individuals:Fundys: NO SEX-ED!!!!!
Quote:
Feb. 24, 2004 -- The debate over whether to have sex education in American schools is over. A new poll by NPR, the Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard's Kennedy School of Government finds that only 7 percent of Americans say sex education should not be taught in schools. Moreover, in most places there is even little debate about what kind of sex education should be taught, although there are still pockets of controversy. Parents are generally content with whatever sex education is offered by their children's school (see Parents Approve sidebar), and public school principals, in a parallel NPR/Kaiser/Kennedy School survey, report little serious conflict over sex education in their communities nowadays. Nearly three-quarters of the principals (74 percent) say there have been no recent discussions or debate in PTA, school board or other public meetings about what to teach in sex ed. Likewise, few principals report being contacted by elected officials, religious leaders or other people in their communities about sex education.

However, this does not mean that all Americans agree on what kind of sex education is best. There are major differences over the issue of abstinence. Fifteen percent of Americans believe that schools should teach only about abstinence from sexual intercourse and should not provide information on how to obtain and use condoms and other contraception. A plurality (46 percent) believes that the most appropriate approach is one that might be called "abstinence-plus" -- that while abstinence is best, some teens do not abstain, so schools also should teach about condoms and contraception. Thirty-six percent believe that abstinence is not the most important thing, and that sex ed should focus on teaching teens how to make responsible decisions about sex.

Advocates of abstinence have had some success. Federal funds are now being made available for abstinence programs; in his State of the Union address President Bush called for an increase in the funding. And in spite of the fact that only 15 percent of Americans say they want abstinence-only sex education in the schools, 30 percent of the the principals of public middle schools and high schools where sex education is taught report that their schools teach abstinence-only. Forty-seven percent of their schools taught abstinence-plus, while 20 percent taught that making responsible decisions about sex was more important than abstinence. (Middle schools were more likely to teach abstinence-only than high schools. High schools were more likely than middle schools to teach abstinence-plus. High schools and middle schools were equally likely to teach that abstinence is not the most important thing.)

In many ways, abstinence-only education contrasts with the broad sex ed curriculum that most Americans want -- from the basics of how babies are made to how to put on a condom to how to get tested for sexually transmitted diseases. Some people thought that some topics were better suited for high school students than middle school students, or vice versa, but few thought any of the topics suggested were inappropriate at all. The most controversial topic -- "that teens can obtain birth control pills from family planning clinics and doctors without permission from a parent" -- was found to be inappropriate by 28 percent of the public, but even there, seven out of 10 (71 percent) thought it was appropriate. The other most controversial topics were oral sex (27 percent found it inappropriate) and homosexuality (25 percent). (See Table 1 in the Survey Tables sidebar.)

Interestingly, in a separate question about what schools should teach about homosexuality, only 19 percent said schools should not teach about it at all. For the most part, Americans want teachers to talk about homosexuality, but they want them to do so in a neutral way. Fifty-two percent said schools should teach "only what homosexuality is, without discussing whether it is wrong or acceptable," compared with 18 percent who said schools should teach that homosexuality is wrong and 8 percent who said schools should teach that homosexuality is acceptable.

A majority of Americans (55 percent) believes that giving teens information about how to obtain and use condoms will not encourage them to have sexual intercourse earlier than they would have otherwise (39 percent say it would encourage them), and 77 percent think such information makes it more likely the teens will practice safe sex now or in the future (only 17 percent say it will not make it more likely).

When it comes to the general approach to teaching sex and sexuality in schools, Americans divide almost evenly. Respondents were asked to choose which of two statements was closer to their belief: (1) "When it comes to sex, teenagers need to have limits set; they must be told what is acceptable and what is not." Or (2) "ultimately teenagers need to make their own decisions, so their education needs to be more in the form of providing information and guidance." Forty-seven percent selected the first statement; 51 percent selected the second. Parents of seventh and eighth graders were more likely to choose the first statement (53 percent) than the second (45 percent); parents of high school students were evenly divided. Conservatives were much more likely to choose the first statement over the second (64 percent to 32 percent), as were evangelical or born-again Christians (61 percent to 35 percent). Liberals and moderates were more likely to choose the second statement over the first (61 percent to 37 percent for liberals and 56 percent to 42 percent for moderates).

Historically, the impetus for sex education in schools was teaching children about avoiding pregnancy and keeping them safe from sexually transmitted diseases, but many parents say they are more worried about the effects of sexual activity on their child's psyche. Asked what concerns them most about their 7th-12th grade children ever having sexual intercourse, 36 percent of parents said "that they might have sexual intercourse before they are psychologically and emotionally ready." That compares with 29 percent who said their biggest concern was disease (23 percent said HIV/AIDS and 6 percent said other sexually transmitted diseases) and 23 percent who said pregnancy.

Moreover, given a list of problems teens might face, nearly half (48 percent) of all Americans chose as the biggest problem "use of alcohol and other illegal drugs," which was double the number who chose any sex-related problem (9 percent said unwanted pregnancy, 8 percent said getting HIV/AIDS, and 4 percent said getting other STDs).

Just as the initial impetus for sex education in schools came from health advocates, the historical impetus for abstinence education has come from evangelical or born-again Christians. In general, evangelical or born-again Christians have very different views from other Americans about sex and sexuality. Eighty-one percent of evangelical or born-again Christians believe it is morally wrong for unmarried adults to engage in sexual intercourse, compared with 33 percent of other Americans. Likewise, 78 percent of evangelical or born-again Christians believe that sexual activity outside of marriage is likely to have harmful psychological and physical effects; 46 percent of other Americans believe this. Moreover, such Christians are much more likely to believe that school-age children should abstain from almost any kind of arousal: 56 percent include passionate kissing among the activities they should abstain from; 31 percent of the rest of the population say that. (See Table 2 in the Survey Tables sidebar.)

Evangelical or born-again Christians also have different views on many questions about sex education. Twelve percent of them say sex education should not be taught in schools -- a small number, but three times the percentage found among non-evangelicals (4 percent). Moreover, more than twice as many evangelicals as non-evangelicals (49 percent to 21 percent) believe the government should fund abstinence-only programs instead of using the money for more comprehensive sex education. And on what should be taught in sex ed classes, evangelicals are much more likely than non-evangelicals to think certain topics are inappropriate. (See Table 3 in the Survey Tables sidebar.)

Interestingly, there are some differences between white and non-white evangelicals -- not on questions about sex or sexuality, but on questions about sex education. On some sex education questions, non-white evangelicals are closer to non-evangelicals than they are to white evangelicals. For instance, while 23 percent of non-Latino white evangelicals believe it is inappropriate for sex ed classes to teach where to get and how to use contraceptives, only 13 percent of non-white evangelicals believe this, compared with 8 percent of non-evangelicals. (The other items in Table 3 were asked of half-samples of the survey, and there were not enough non-white evangelicals in the half-samples to make accurate comparisons.) Likewise, asked about the best method to teach sex ed, 27 percent of non-Latino white evangelicals prefer abstinence-only. Fewer than half as many non-white evangelicals (12 percent) prefer abstinence-only, which is in line with non-evangelicals (10 percent).

Other interesting findings from the survey:

Adult Americans define abstinence broadly. The survey asked respondents whether they agreed or disagreed with the statement, "Abstinence from sexual activity outside marriage is the expected standard for all school-age children." Sixty-two percent of Americans agreed with the statement, which is a principle that must be taught in federally funded abstinence education programs; 36 percent disagreed. Regardless of respondents' answer to that question, they then were asked how they were defining the word abstinence when they answered it. Did they include abstaining from sexual intercourse? Oral sex? Intimate touching? Passionate kissing? Masturbation? A large percentage of Americans said yes to all of those, with 63 percent thinking abstinence included abstaining from intimate touching, 40 percent thinking it included abstaining from passionate kissing, and 44 percent thinking it included abstaining from masturbation. (See Table 2 in the Survey Tables sidebar.) As suggested earlier, born-again or evangelical Christians (of all races) were more likely to say yes to the last three than other Americans.

Parents think their daughters are better prepared to deal with sexual issues than their sons. In the course of this survey, parents of children in grades 7 through 12 were asked a number of questions about one of their children (if they had more than one in that age group, the child was chosen randomly). One of those questions was, "How well prepared do you feel your (x-grade) child is to deal with sexual issues -- very prepared, somewhat prepared, not very prepared, or not at all prepared?" Sixty percent of parents said their daughter was very prepared; only 36 percent said the same of their son. Interestingly, fathers (60 percent) were as likely as mothers (59 percent) to say their daughter was very prepared. However, fathers (23 percent) were much less likely than mothers (45 percent) to say their son was very prepared. (Whether the child had attended sex education in school made no difference in parents' assessments.) In answering the question about what worries parents most about their child ever having sexual intercourse, parents of girls (41 percent) were more likely to place psychological well-being as their top concern than were parents of boys (31 percent). Parents of girls were not more likely than parents of boys to choose pregnancy or disease.

There is no double standard regarding how long Americans think boys or girls should wait to have sex, but adults don't think either boys or girls will actually wait that long. Forty-seven percent think girls should wait until they are married to have sexual intercourse, and 44 percent think boys should wait until they are married; the difference is not statistically significant. Nearly nine out of 10 (89 percent), though, don't think girls will wait that long; the number is similar for boys (91 percent). The responses were similar when people were asked about oral sex; they said boys and girls should wait, but probably won't. Again, there was little difference between people asked about boys and those asked about girls. About one out of six people said that boys (16 percent) and girls (18 percent) should never experience oral sex, but they also were likely to say that it was not a realistic expectation.

Methodology

The NPR/Kaiser/Kennedy School National Survey on Sex Education is part of an ongoing project of National Public Radio, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. Representatives of the three sponsors worked together to develop the survey questionnaire and to analyze the results, with NPR maintaining sole editorial control over its broadcasts on the surveys. The project team includes:

From NPR: Marcus D. Rosenbaum, Senior Editor; Susan Davis, Associate Editor; Ellen Guettler, Assistant Editor

From the Kaiser Family Foundation: Drew Altman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Matt James, Senior Vice President of Media and Public Education and Executive Director of kaisernetwork.org; Mollyann Brodie, Vice President, Director of Public Opinion and Media Research; and Rebecca Levin, Research Associate

From the Kennedy School: Robert J. Blendon, a Harvard University professor who holds joint appointments in the School of Public Health and the Kennedy School of Government; Stephen R. Pelletier, Research Coordinator for the Harvard Opinion Research Program; John M. Benson, Managing Director of the Harvard Opinion Research Program; and Elizabeth Mackie, Research Associate

The results of this project are based on two nationwide telephone surveys: a survey of the general public and a survey of school principals. The survey of the general public was conducted among a random nationally representative sample of 1,759 respondents 18 years of age or older, including an oversample of parents of children in 7th through the 12th grade, which resulted in interviews with 1001 parents. Statistical results for the total survey were weighted to be representative of the national population. The margin of sampling error for the survey is plus or minus 3 percentage points for total respondents and plus or minus 4.7 percentage points for parents. The survey of principals was conducted among 303 principals of public middle, junior and senior high schools across the country. Schools were randomly and proportionally selected from a national database of public schools by type of school (middle, junior and senior high). Statistical results were weighted to be representative of public middle, junior and senior high schools in the United States based on geographic region and type of residential area (urban, suburban, non-metropolitan). The margin of sampling error for the survey is plus or minus 6 percentage points for total respondents. For results based on subsets of respondents the margin of error is higher.

Princeton Survey Research Associates conducted the fieldwork for both surveys between September and October 2003. Note that sampling error is only one of many potential sources of error in this or any other public opinion poll.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 08:30 pm
Fedral wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
No one did insult fedral personally. I find him attempting to play "victim" ridiculous.


By your post, you were calling anyone who believed in:
The Bible
Noah
The Flood
Moses
Creation
Miracles
Heaven
The birth and resurrection of Christ
God

An anti-intellectual goon.


I wouldn't call you an anti-intellectual goon. Based on past experiance, I would call you a gullible, myopic, cut-and-paste fanatic. Your "faith" seems to extend only so far as whatever the accepted norm is in your place and your time. You believe unquestionably in the nation you happened to be born in, the political philosophy that happens to be prevalent in your nation at this time, the accepted religion of the society you were born into, and the most popular intrepretation of that religion (modern Western Christianity.)
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 08:34 pm
Most?
Most people in America believe that the Universe was created in Seven Days? If that is a true stat then I must say most Americans are stupid.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:48 pm
Gosh, what an impressive collection of superior folks here.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:49 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Gosh, what an impressive collection of superior folks here.


Lets see your defense of Christian fundamentalism in politics.

I promise not too bite.

...or are you going to continue your poke-and-run routine?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:55 pm
ILZ, "too" is the adverb form. "to" is the preposition. You make that mistake (and others) frequently.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:57 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
ILZ, "too" is the adverb form. "to" is the preposition. You make that mistake (and others) frequently.


I have no idea why I just wrote "too." I dun fiznucked up. You got me, George. You got me REAL good. Too bad it came in the form of one of your classic inartfull dodges. Which brings us back to my last post.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 10:59 pm
Do you mean "artless"?
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Feb, 2004 11:00 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Do you mean "artless"?


Ever hear of the artfull dodger?
0 Replies
 
 

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