ehBeth
 
  4  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 12:51 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

How many women need to be raped before you find the need to keep illegal aliens out of our country?


American women would be better off to try and find someplace to send native-born men.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798

Quote:
numerous studies going back more than a century have shown that immigrants—regardless of nationality or legal status—are less likely than the native population to commit violent crimes or to be incarcerated. A new report from the Immigration Policy Center notes that while the illegal immigrant population in the U.S. more than tripled between 1990 and 2013 to more than 11.2 million, “FBI data indicate that the violent crime rate declined 48%—which included falling rates of aggravated assault, robbery, rape, and murder. Likewise, the property crime rate fell 41%, including declining rates of motor vehicle theft, larceny/robbery, and burglary.”

A separate IPC paper from 2007 explains that this is not a function of well-behaved high-skilled immigrants from India and China offsetting misdeeds of Latin American newcomers. The data show that “for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants,” according to the report. “This holds true especially for the Mexicans, Salvadorans, and Guatemalans who make up the bulk of the undocumented population.”

It also holds true in states with large populations of illegal residents. A 2008 report by the Public Policy Institute of California found that immigrants are underrepresented in the prison system. “The incarceration rate for foreign-born adults is 297 per 100,000 in the population, compared [with] 813 per 100,000 for U.S.-born adults,” the study concludes. “The foreign-born, who make up roughly 35% of California’s adult population, constitute 17% of the state prison population.”

High-profile incidents, like the recent arrest of a Mexican national in the horrific shooting death of a young woman in San Francisco, can give the impression that immigrants are more likely to commit violent crimes. But the alleged killer is no more representative of Mexican immigrants than Dylann Roof is representative of white people.

Every immigrant here illegally has already broken a law, though that doesn’t mean they are predisposed to crime. In a 2005 paper, the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago reported that more recently arrived immigrants are even less crime-prone than their predecessors. In 1980 the incarceration rate of foreign nationals was about one percentage point below natives. A decade later that had fallen to a little more than a percentage point, and by 2000 it was almost three percentage points lower.


this might make sense (though I don't find American media liberal in any sense)

Quote:
Mr. Trump wants to have an unserious debate about immigration, one that involves scaring voters and scapegoating newcomers for crime problems that are mostly homegrown. The liberal press corps will continue indulging him because he’s entertaining, and they know his bluster helps Hillary Clinton.


http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/07/immigration-and-crime

Quote:
ndeed, Robert Sampson, a sociologist at Harvard, has found that "increases in immigration and language diversity over the decade of the 1990s predicted decreases in neighborhood homicide rates in the late '90s and up to 2006." An eight-year study of violence in Chicago led Mr Sampson to conclude that Mexican immigrants are less prone to violence than native-born Americans, whites or black, of comparable age and socio-economic status. In recent years, El Paso, Texas has had the lowest murder rate of any American city with a population of 500,000 or more, despite sitting directly across the Rio Grande from Juarez, a Mexican city plagued with horrific gang violence. Other metropolitan magnets for new arrivals from south of the border, such as San Diego, San Antonio and Phoenix, are similarly pacific. "Cities of concentrated immigration are some of the safest places around," Mr Sampson observes.

These patterns are reflected, as one would expect, in data on incarceration rates. White men born in America are twice as likely to end up in prison as men born abroad, while American-born black men are many times more likely to land in jail than their immigrant counterparts. As a general matter, individuals with less education are more likely to get locked up. Nevertheless, immigrants from El Salvador, Guatemala and Mexico, who tend to be relatively unschooled, are put behind bars at lower rates than white Americans who didn't make it to graduation. In fact, American white guys with high-school diplomas are more likely to get tossed in the can than Guatemalan or Honduran fellows without them.


more on that Sampson study

http://www.livescience.com/4872-immigration-reduces-crime-rates.html

http://scholar.harvard.edu/sampson/publications?page=1 (his publication list)

pdf of the study

http://contexts.org/articles/files/2008/01/contexts_winter08_sampson.pdf
McGentrix
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 12:58 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Every immigrant here illegally has already broken a law


Who is the one deciding which laws are enforceable and which are really not needed to be enforced? I'd really like to go home and smoke some marijuana, but it's against the law so I don't.

The law is the law. Neither Trump nor I are against immigration or immigrants. It's the illegal part that has to be rectified.

I have no doubt that most illegal immigrants keep their noses clean. But, some are in the US illegally for the sole purpose of crime, moving drugs, raping due to gang activity or other predispositions. Tell me, is there a number of women that YOU are fine with being raped by illegal aliens?

Most guns in America are not involved in crime, yet the liberals in America want to ban them all because they might be used in a crime. Same scenario.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 03:09 pm
Quote:
Most Americans want the U.S. to stop letting in Syrian refugees amid fears of terrorist infiltrations after the Paris attacks, siding with Republican presidential candidates, governors, and lawmakers who want to freeze the Obama administration’s resettlement program.
The findings are part of a Bloomberg Politics national poll released Wednesday that also shows the nation divided on whether to send U.S. troops to Iraq and Syria to fight the Islamic State, an idea President Barack Obama opposes, and whether the U.S. government is doing enough to protect the homeland from a comparable attack.
Fifty-three percent of U.S. adults in the survey, conducted in the days immediately following the attacks, say the nation should not continue a program to resettle up to 10,000 Syrian refugees. Just 28 percent would keep the program with the screening process as it now exists, while 11 percent said they would favor a limited program to accept only Syrian Christians while excluding Muslims, a proposal Obama has dismissed as “shameful” and un-American.
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-11-18/bloomberg-poll-most-americans-oppose-syrian-refugee-resettlement


We can count on Obama to keep trying to shame us with the lie "telling the muslim syrians that we dont want them is not who we are".

It is exactly who who we are, we are what the majority wants, not what the liberal elite want. As scalia said the other day we are either a democracy or we are not.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 03:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If you are still confused about how Donald Trump is walking away with the Republican nomination for president, look no further than his swift, reflexive, fearless and unvarnished response to the terrorist attack in Paris.

Within hours of what amounted to 9/11 for our oldest ally, Mr. Trump took to Twitter to ridicule the president of the United States and eviscerate his foreign policies.

“President Obama said ‘ISIL continues to shrink’ in an interview just hours before the horrible attack in Paris. He is just so bad!” he wrote.

And then to rub salt into the wound, Mr. Trump ripped off the president’s 2008 campaign slogan.

“CHANGE.”

So much for the old Republican edict that politics end at the water’s edge, especially in a moment of dire crisis.

To quote Charlie Sheen, Donald Trump prefers “Winning!”

Or, as Mr. Trump says: “We will have so much winning if I get elected you may get bored with winning.”

Even after President Obama addressed the world and called for a united front in the aftermath of the terrorist attack, Mr. Trump would have none of it.

“Why won’t President Obama use the term Islamic Terrorism?” he asked pointedly. “Isn’t it now, after all of this time and so much death, about time?”

By the next day, Mr. Trump was just getting warmed up with all the things Republican politicians are not supposed to say in the wake of a tragedy like this.

“You can say what you want, but if they had guns — if our people had guns, if they were allowed to carry — it would have been a much, much different situation,” Mr. Trump told a crowd of fans during a political rally in Texas one day after the massacre.

Ask any mainstream Republican political strategist and they will tell you this is political suicide.

One of the very first rules they teach in Republican political candidate school is you never, never, NEVER inveigh against gun control laws in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting like this.

You might offend somebody. Alienate women voters. Risk coming off as overly aggressive. Might invade some college students’ “safe space.”

But you know who never went to Republican political candidate school? Actual American voters. That’s who. And when Donald Trump breaks all the rules by ripping the president, questioning his religion and blaming gun control laws for a mass shooting, he is saying exactly what so many Americans were already thinking.

That is because Donald Trump — the great salesman-statesman — not only intimately understands the product he is selling (himself), he also has a deeply instinctual understanding of his customer (voters). He understands what they want, how they think and how to reach them.

And pretty much ever since, Mr. Trump has been just riding what has become the Third Rail of modern politics: the very real and bloody danger immigration and unsecured borders poses to Americans here at home today.

“We have no idea who these people are, we are the worst when it comes to paperwork,” said Mr. Trump, referring specifically to the Syrian refugees. “This could be one of the great Trojan horses.”

(By the way, when was the last time a candidate for president of the United States invoked Greek mythology? And they say Donald Trump isn’t sophisticated!)

“I’m putting people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration, that if I win, they’re going back.

“They could be ISIS. … This could be one of the greatest tactical ploys of all time. A 200,000 man army maybe. I don’t know that it is, but it could be possible.”

Sure, it is tough talk and certainly threatens the sanctity of our “safe space.” But, then again, we are learning that the “safe spaces” are getting less and less safe.

At least until Donald Trump becomes president.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/17/charles-hurt-donald-trump-fuels-support-by-riding-/?page=all
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  4  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 05:04 pm
@McGentrix,
This does not negate the fact that Trump tars all immigrants with the same brush.
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 05:06 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

This does not negate the fact that Trump tars all immigrants with the same brush.


No he doesn't. He is very clear that he isn't and if you paid any attention you would kknow that.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 05:14 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

This does not negate the fact that Trump tars all immigrants with the same brush.


No he doesn't. He is very clear that he isn't and if you paid any attention you would kknow that.


Over and over and over and over and over........

Somebody is consuming too much corporate class propaganda.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 07:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Three new polls show the billionaire extending a healthy lead over retired neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson.

A five-day rolling poll by Reuters showed Trump winning 36 percent of Republican primary voters to Carson’s 14.6 percent.
A University of Massachusetts survey tallied the two at 31 percent and 22 percent respectively.
A Morning Consult poll released Tuesday gave found the real-estate mogul pulling in 38 percent to Carson’s 19 percent.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/11/iron-trump-donald-surges-past-carson-in-new-polls/#0zcc1fTAvmrHip6k.99
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Wed 18 Nov, 2015 07:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump says the United States has “absolutely no choice” but to close down mosques where “some bad things are happening.”

“Nobody wants to say this and nobody wants to shut down religious institutions or anything, but you know, you understand it,” Trump said on Fox News’s “Hannity” on Tuesday. “A lot of people understand it. We’re going to have no choice.”

Trump said on Monday he would “strongly consider” closing mosques if elected in response to the terrorist attacks in France last Friday that killed at least 129 people and injured hundreds more.
Pressed to explain his tougher stance on the issue, the GOP primary front-runner told Fox News's Sean Hannity that the security situation was changing “a lot faster than anybody understands.”

“There’s absolutely no choice,” Trump insisted. “Some really bad things are happening and they’re happening fast. Certainly a lot faster than our president understands because he doesn’t understand anything.”

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/260574-trump-absolutely-no-choice-but-to-close-mosques

NO MERCY!

The prick has well earned it in incompetence, laziness, lying, power stealing, and all manor of generally prickish tendencies.

LET UR RIP!
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Thu 19 Nov, 2015 01:03 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And Trump went after Democrats, too, getting big cheers as he said Obama "has been a disaster for this country." The crowd also booed Secretary of State John Kerry of Massachusetts, prompting Trump to playfully put a hand to his ear. Trump called former Maryland governor Martin O'Malley, a Democrat running for president, "the other guy, he shouldn't even be on the stage." And Trump said he does not believe Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton has "the strength or the stamina to be president."

"She's exhausted, folks," Trump said. "She's exhausted."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/18/nine-things-that-happened-during-donald-trumps-visit-to-worcester/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_pp-trump-115am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

http://www.fsasj.org/images/smalllogoKABOOM.jpg

In simple words and in few words Trump gets the job done. This guy is awesome!
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  4  
Thu 19 Nov, 2015 05:16 pm
@McGentrix,
I did pay attention to what he said, I quoted him directly in my first reply.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Thu 19 Nov, 2015 08:22 pm
@InfraBlue,
No, you paraphrased what he said in your first reply, and even then you said
Quote:
He also assumes that some are good people.


That's a different brush and not tarring all of them with a single brush.

Besides all that, it's political rhetoric to make a point. I've yet to see any of their top scientists or cell phone moguls or company executives coming across the border illegally. Do you?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 12:49 am
Quote:
DONALD TRUMP brought his self-celebrating, tub-thumping, trash-talking traveling tour to Massachusetts this week, replete with his usual mix of nativism, half-truths, boasts, insults, and put-downs. With Trump, I’m always left with this question: What kind of voter hears him and says: Wow, now there’s a guy I’d be proud to have as my president!

Last week, Trump seized on Ben Carson’s description of his teenage anger as a “pathological temper — a disease” and used it to compare the man who is currently his chief Republican rival to a “child molester.” That was jaw-dropping even by Trump’s limbo-bar standards.


Usually his mockery runs more toward teenage-bully taunts. He finds or invents a weakness and then harps on it so relentlessly that his disparagement becomes part of the campaign narrative.

Thus Jeb Bush, whose demeanor is that of a thoughtful conservative policy wonk, is derided as “low energy.”

Marco Rubio? Trump makes fun of his perspiration.


“I have never seen a young person sweat like Marco Rubio,” he said last month in Iowa. And why, exactly, is that relevant? Trump, um, explained it this way: “Think of Putin. Pretty tough cookie, right? . . . You have to be really cool. And Rubio’s going to meet him and walk in, and he’s sweating — sweat is pouring down. And Putin’s going to look at him and say, ‘What the hell is wrong with this guy?’ ”

With Carly Fiorina, it was her looks, at least until that backfired.

Now, politics ain’t beanbag, but serious national candidates don’t normally stoop to comparing rivals to pedophiles. Or to deriding them for their appearance or physiological functions.

So back to my question about Trump backers.

Even in a party described by those demographics, Trump’s supporters tend to be older, whiter, and more male, says Steve Koczela, president of the MassINC Polling Group. They also tend to be less well-educated and less affluent. And they are defined more by a shared sense of disgruntlement than a consistent set of ideas or principles.

“Anger is a more important identifier for Trump supporters than their ideology,” Koczela says.

Much of Trump’s appeal among Republicans is, of course, based on his hard-line stance on illegal immigration, which is why his send-them-back and build-a-wall stands are mainstays of his stump speech. Meanwhile, he has outdone his GOP rivals in anticipating and playing to xenophobia over Syrian refugees, fretting, ridiculously, that we might somehow allow entry to a large terrorist army in disguise.

Gary Langer, who does the ABC News/Washington Post poll, identifies two other distinguishing characteristics: a deep dissatisfaction with the status quo and a desire for a political outsider.

And as for Trump’s jeering jibes?

Well, this fall, MassINC Polling queried New Hampshire voters about the importance they placed on various qualities in a candidate. One of those attributes was treating people “with respect and courtesy.” Eighty-two percent of those who supported Carson or Bush said that characteristic was “very important.” Overall, 67 percent of respondents thought so.

Not so Trump supporters: Only 37 percent put a priority on civility.

Now, as the belligerent billionaire’s current standing demonstrates, there are obviously lots of Republican voters who appreciate his sentiments, mindset, and demeanor.

That’s good news for Trump, but better news for Democrats.

Why? Because, given the polarizing pitch needed to consolidate that vote, it’s difficult to see how a candidate who rides it to the GOP nomination could prevail in a national election. Not with the rapid way the American electorate is evolving.

And that’s a reality practical Republicans will soon have to confront.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2015/11/19/who-would-proudly-say-president-trump/6iBs1SM08C79lGjbnwwVMK/story.html

Wow, OK. So you look at that guy on stage selling himself, selling America, Selling hope, and you that that is all there is to the guy? You think we are ashamed of that version of Trump we see on the stage?I am not ashamed of that guy, I would love to be that guy, I would love to have that guy over for steaks. You not know that almost everyone who has dealt with Trump says that he is a nice guy most of the time, a thrill to be around, and according to almost everyone a stud in bed? Trump is not a meanie, sure he exaggerates but it is with a wink and a smile, we all know the score on that, but basically he tells it like it is. There is nothing wrong with any of it. And as for civility who the **** cares till we get this country back under control, back under the control of the people who should have control. Ya gotta prioritize man.

I dont think that trump is going to have trouble getting people to know that he is a great guy. The election is a year away, and Trump is a great communicator, he has this in the bag.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 04:49 am
I hope you'll re-think aligning yourself with this guy. I know it feels good to thumb your nose at the establishment. I feel you.

But Trump has gone way too far in suggesting that we force Muslims to wear ID badges a la Nazi Germany.

I'll have a very hard time being civil to anyone that supports that. I think you would too.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 05:25 am
@Lash,
That would be fine with me so long is there is no locator electronic chip in it is like someone called for. I think we should have a national ID card, and I think not carrying it should be a crime. I dont think we have the right to deny our government our name, rank, and serial number. We give that to our worse enemy on the battlefield, but we should not need to give it to our own government?

I am rather surprised that Trump has not said something that makes me go "oh, what a minute, can I vote for this guy" but it has not happened.

There was a poll done sometime maybe mid Sep that I was reading and they talked to trump supporters. I dont remember the exact question of the exact answer rate but a huge majority of the people made it very clear that they would support Trump no matter what he said, and I am getting to that point. I dont know what it is about the guy but there is something about him that I feel deep into my bones. I think I know this guy, I think I have known a lot of guys like him, and if I had to pick someone to be in my corner it would be him.

But real time government tracking of people would be a deal breaker.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 05:43 am
@hawkeye10,
I looked it up. Apparently the idea is that they would have their cards swiped often and the location and time would be loaded onto a computer somewhere in America. The more often it is swiped the more it is a real time tracking system.

I would be ok with that for non citizens but not citizens. If we had a national ID card I would outlaw the saving of swipe data for citizens.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 09:09 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I hope you'll re-think aligning yourself with this guy. I know it feels good to thumb your nose at the establishment. I feel you.

But Trump has gone way too far in suggesting that we force Muslims to wear ID badges a la Nazi Germany.

I'll have a very hard time being civil to anyone that supports that. I think you would too.

o.O

That is a bit of a stretch too far. Liberty > safety in my opinion. Maybe we could get the FBI to do their jobs before we go about labeling people due to their religion.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 03:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If we had a national ID card I would outlaw the saving of swipe data for citizens.


Google already tracks you via cell phone. As well as online activity.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 04:03 pm
A bunch of candidates think today that they will get mileage out of "oh no, I would not do that!" but I dont know if it works. Trump in his answer said " what ever it takes" which will work big for him, and we are talking about tracking "them" not "us", and them are not american citizens, they dont have our rights.

I know the journalists are breathlessly waiting for something to bring Trump down, but I highly doubt this is it.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Nov, 2015 04:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
To be blunt, these ideas by Trump on how to deal with Muslims aren't original. They are very much akin to the ones anti-Muslim bigots have advocated in the past. Those people we can dismiss. But when the front-runner for a major political party starts parroting those alarming proposals, it's time that we all take notice.

Trump has shown us in this campaign that he has no qualms about stoking the flames of hatred for minorities in his quest for power. He has already done this to the Latino community with his despicable comments that Mexico is sending us "rapists" and other criminals.

So it's not surprising that Trump would use Muslim-bashing to score points because it plays well with GOP voters. In fact, a poll released earlier this week found that three-quarters of Republicans believe Islam is "at odds" with American values.

Regardless of why Trump is espousing these policies, his words must be bringing joy to ISIS. As I learned firsthand at the White House Summit on Countering Violent Extremism earlier this year, ISIS hopes that Muslims in the West are demonized and discriminated against. Indeed, ISIS' operatives made that very point on social media after the Paris attack, expressing their hope that Muslims in Western countries would be victims of hate crimes.

Why? It's simple: ISIS hopes that when Muslims in the West are demonized, they will become alienated from the country in which they live. ISIS operatives believe then that their recruitment pitch that the West is at war with Islam will resonate more strongly. Consequently, ISIS is likely rooting for Trump's proposals to become law.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/opinions/obeidallah-trump-anti-muslim/

Before D's hyperventilate like this they should take a look at what the French are saying about the security needs of the state, and how that relates to Muslims. I know that we are provincial , but most people are at least moderately aware of what is going on in France right now. And Europe in general. Several new EU security programs were agreed to today, which is lightning fast for the EU getting anything done, and we know that there is a reason. D's need to take a chill pill, the majority is not with them on this.

THey can blame the GOP just like they blame the NRA when the people dont want want they want, it just makes them look small and small minded. It will also likely drive home to people that it is the R's not the D's who are fighting for them. At some point those who are mocking and throwing turds at Trump need to understand that Trump knows where America is better than they do, and that he is not likely to step on a landmine.

 

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