15
   

On the "worst day" of his life this father fought back.

 
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2010 04:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Fido wrote:
To say a woman owns her body is not a moral argument; but a legal argument...

David replied:
That is false; it is both.


Apparently, David was not around during the 1960s to hear anti-war protestors say:

You can't legislate morality.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2010 05:03 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
I admire his courage. I don't know if I could be that brave.

Thanks for posting that video, boomerang.
I admire his courage enormously, too.
I could weep for him.
One can only imagine the depth of the grief and anguish he and his wife were experiencing in their situation.
To have to also deal harassment from deranged people on top of that grief is obscene.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2010 05:12 pm
I have a question.

How did this video come to be made?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2010 06:00 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Fido wrote:
To say a woman owns her body is not a moral argument; but a legal argument...

David replied:
That is false; it is both.


Apparently, David was not around during the 1960s to hear anti-war protestors say:

You can't legislate morality.
I did not have to wait until then to hear THAT.





David
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Oct, 2010 09:12 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:

Quote:
Fido wrote:
To say a woman owns her body is not a moral argument; but a legal argument...

David replied:
That is false; it is both.


Apparently, David was not around during the 1960s to hear anti-war protestors say:

You can't legislate morality.

Abalard said Ius-Justice is the Genus, and Lex- Law, a species of it... In its proper relation, a law must be just to be law, which is to say moral... But, as one English jurist said: There are no imaginary cases... We cannot base a real infringement of rights of a real living person on the contingency basis of some person who is for all practical purposes, even if conceived, still theoretical, that is to say: Imaginary...

If we give the unborn rights, then why not give the dead rights, or give all future generations unconceived- rights... Traditionally; one must live and claim rights to have rights, and it is one of those problems with rights for animals, that though they live, they cannot plead their own case... So the morality of the situation, though real, finds the potential mother already the victim, for it is her next of kin who is killed, and it is her traditional task to defend and avenge her babes, and if she does not when it is her right and obligation, then she does so for society, for the benefit of society, because her demand for rights for her children would be an imposition on this Christian community....

She should not have to ask the Christians for help that should be freely given... It is the Christians who invented Western Law, and it is they who have went about destroying all communities save their own, who have defined the individual into rights and communities out of rights even though this has resulted in the victimization of most of humanity... They have made this mess, so now that they have individual rights, and no community watches and defends their own, will they rob women of their individuality and rights???
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 06:20 am
@plainoldme,
From boomer's link, on the first page:

Aaron Gouveia wrote:
Running on pure adrenaline, and without even a hint of a plan, I grabbed my cell phone and crossed the street. I didn’t know what to say or how to say it, I just knew I wanted to make public the cowardice of these protesters. The video’s below—they didn’t disappoint.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:18 am
@sozobe,
Thanks!
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
she has an absolute moral right to defend her body from an intrusive parasite.
Thats a strange way to refer to a penis.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:30 am
@Green Witch,
Quote:
I'm in favor of a woman controlling her reproductive organs
The time to do that is before sex. Who says people are entitled to choices after they have chosen wrong ?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Taunting anti-abortionists can be fun.
Taunting pro-abortionists can be fun. Why didnt your mother abort you ?
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
People 's rights can be and are violated; people cannot be removed from their moral rights.
I assume you mean the rights of an unborn baby.
Quote:
This has nothing to do with religion.
Who put you in charge of deciding other people's concerns?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:47 am
@Ionus,
David wrote:
she has an absolute moral right to defend her body from an intrusive parasite.
Ionus wrote:
Thats a strange way to refer to a penis.
I 'm not quite sure qua a penile parasite. Anyway, I was referring to an intrusive, uninvited embryo
that has no right to be there, and that traditionally leaves
in an act of great pain for his hostess.

A chick has a right to defend herself from that.

Sexual relaxation is NOT an invitation to a non-extant parasite.
A chick is sovereign n autonomous over her own body.

The intrusion of the parasite can be compared by analogy
to intrusion of a fly or mosquito or hornet into her house or car
while she has the door open for her entrance or egress
(or for those of invited guests).





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 03:52 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
I'm in favor of a woman controlling her reproductive organs
Ionus wrote:
The time to do that is before sex.
Yes, AND thereafter. Her entire body is still hers.




Ionus wrote:
Who says people are entitled to choices after they have chosen wrong ?
Did the chick choose rong????
She has the natural right to sexual relaxation
without the uninvited interferences of others.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 04:01 am
@Ionus,
David wrote:
People 's rights can be and are violated; people cannot be removed from their moral rights.
Ionus wrote:
I assume you mean the rights of an unborn baby.
Yes, sometimes, under other circumstances, e.g. if mother n baby are injured by a negligent motorist,
both mother n baby have their own rights against defendant.




Quote:
This has nothing to do with religion.
Ionus wrote:
Who put you in charge of deciding other people's concerns?
I don 't understand the question.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 04:31 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Taunting anti-abortionists can be fun.
Ionus wrote:
Taunting pro-abortionists can be fun.
I kinda LIKE arguing with u, Ionus; its kinda fun.





Ionus wrote:
Why didnt your mother abort you ?
Because both of my parents actively desired to procreate.
I have this on the best authority.

By way of contrast, I 'm very, very pleased to not have generated any children.
Everytime that I hear of a patricide
or of a betrayal by the next generation, I feel justified.
Any child that I might father coud very well be antithetical to what I deem good.
Indeed, my inherited estate coud be posthumously dedicated
to the support of what I deem anathema, by a disagreeing son.
(Behold Henry Cabot Lodge, in his apostate betrayal of his grandfather, who helped to raise him since age 7.)

My father was a leftist; I 'm a rightist; we did not see "eye-to-eye" as a general rule.

I have no reason to expect any better from any child of mine.





David
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 08:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Parasite definition, an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.
as per : http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/parasiteYou have used the word incorrectly to further your political views.

Quote:
Anyway, I was referring to an intrusive, uninvited embryo that has no right to be there, and that traditionally leaves in an act of great pain for his hostess.
Not so. The second and third children born can be as painful as exercise. That is not painful, at least not to men.
Quote:
A chick has a right to defend herself from that.
BEFORE conception, not after.
Quote:
Sexual relaxation is NOT an invitation to a non-extant parasite.
As there is no parasite involved, I concur.

Quote:
Did the chick choose rong????
If the sex results in an abortion, how can you say she chose right ?

Quote:
The intrusion of the parasite can be compared by analogy
to intrusion of a fly or mosquito or hornet into her house or car
while she has the door open for her entrance or egress
(or for those of invited guests).
It can also be compared by anology to a betrayal of human trust that pits selfishness against the future.


Quote:
Quote:
I'm in favor of a woman controlling her reproductive organs
Ionus wrote:
The time to do that is before sex.

Yes, AND thereafter. Her entire body is still hers.
Which is it, a parasite or a part of her body ? You will have to be consistent to maintain any credibility with me.

Quote:
She has the natural right to sexual relaxation without the uninvited interferences of others.
It is called masturbation. If she invites someone in then they too have rights.


0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 08:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Quote:
This has nothing to do with religion.
Ionus wrote:
Who put you in charge of deciding other people's concerns?

I don 't understand the question.
Religious people will decide what concerns them....

Quote:
Quote:
Why didnt your mother abort you ?
Because both of my parents actively desired to procreate. I have this on the best authority.
Both your parents ? I thought it was your mother's right, solely ?

It is only because you are already born that you approve of abortion. I bet if you were in your mothers womb you would cry for help if she wanted to abort you.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 08:35 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
David wrote:
This has nothing to do with religion.
Ionus wrote:
Who put you in charge of deciding other people's concerns?
Ionus wrote:
I don 't understand the question.
Religious people will decide what concerns them....
By THAT definition, EVERYTHING is religion, if thay say so.







Ionus wrote:
Why didnt your mother abort you ?
David wrote:
Because both of my parents actively desired to procreate.
I have this on the best authority.
Ionus wrote:
Both your parents?
I thought it was your mother's right, solely ?
That is what HAPPENED, regardless of anyone 's rights.




Ionus wrote:
It is only because you are already born that you approve of abortion.
I bet if you were in your mothers womb you would cry for help if she wanted to abort you.
Burglars have called the police to help them (on the victim's premises) when thay have gotten into trouble.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 08:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
By THAT definition, EVERYTHING is religion, if thay say so.
And for them it is correct. Are you saying we should use your opinion to tell them what is NOT religion ?
Quote:
That is what HAPPENED, regardless of anyone 's rights.
If your mother had wanted to abort you, what about your father's rights ? What about your rights ?
Quote:
Burglars have called the police to help them (on the victim's premises) when thay have gotten into trouble.
So the baby is a criminal but not the mother ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 30 Oct, 2010 09:34 pm
@Ionus,
David wrote:
By THAT definition, EVERYTHING is religion, if thay say so.
Ionus wrote:
And for them it is correct.
Are you saying we should use your opinion to tell them what is NOT religion ?
Yes; religions r systems of divine worship.





David wrote:
That is what HAPPENED, regardless of anyone 's rights.
Ionus wrote:
If your mother had wanted to abort you, what about your father's rights?
What about your rights ?
Neither he nor I had any rights in that situation,
except I might have a feeble argument
based on equitable estoppel, or detrimental reliance.
The argument 'd be the same as a party guest (or gate-crasher),
who was ordered to depart, by his hostess
n he complains that its cold out there.










David wrote:
Burglars have called the police to help them (on the victim's premises) when thay have gotten into trouble.
Ionus wrote:
So the baby is a criminal but not the mother?
Yes, unless the baby was present in response to an intentional invitation.
IF he just snuck in, then yes: a trespasser & a parasite; in some cases, even a murderer (depraved-mind murder).
If the baby were uninvited, then his moral status is the same
as that of a mosquito or a hornet who snuck in when the
hostess had her door open for her own entrance or egress.





David
 

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