Friends don't let friends fat-talk

@failures art,

Quote:

It's a play on the "friends don't let friends drink and drive" which was a message to help intervene on friends who would hurt themselves by getting into a car chemically impaired.

it is not a play off of, it is an appropriation of the legacy of the program "friends dont let friends drive drunk" which was in total the teaching that it is a moral imperative to get between a drunk friend and the car. There was no nicety about it, it was taught that even stealing the keys or taking a punch at your friends was justified in keeping them from getting behind the wheel. I am not so naive as to believe that this group intends anything other than to have the same reaction that a potential drunk driver engenders amongst friends to carry over to fat talking.

1 Reply

@saab,

Quote:

If we are not allowed to talk about fat or even a normal overweight of a few pounds we might send a message that only skinny people are beautiful and that might cause this in even more young women.

The interesting thing is that if girls ever talk to men, I think they'd find that most men DO prefer curves and at least a healthy weight as opposed to skinniness. Or at least that's what I've heard the men I know say.

Those pictures of the bony girls in magazines and walking the runway are to sell clothes. Clothes look good hanging on that sort of frame. But that skinny, bony sort of frame isn't necessarily as attractive when the clothes come off.

2 Replies

@aidan,

Quote:

The interesting thing is that if girls ever talk to men, I think they'd find that most men DO prefer curves and at least a healthy weight as opposed to skinniness. Or at least that's what I've heard the men I know say.

Perhaps a unintended consequence of teaching girls that they should not care what the boys want, should not try to please men.

1 Reply

@failures art,

Quote:

I'm not only concerned with "younger people." I think negative self image effects people of all ages.

Well yeah, but I know in myself that the older I get, the less I worry about it.
And the other component of it is that these days, there are so many processes and procedures available to a large number of women that help them feel that they can strive for and achieve 'perfection'.
That's part of why they are all starting to look like they come from the same mold. Older women didn't come up when those procedures were an option so you had to make do with what you were born with and that's just the way it was.

Quote:

I do think you may be on to something in terms of media culture and the promotion of physical appearance. I believe that there is growing diversity in media portrayals of beauty. Plenty of distance yet to travel though.

Yeah- the whole media thing can be a double-edged sword. On the one hand it pervades every facet of life now and what it represents as the ideal is inescapable.
By the same token, that pervasiveness could be used to promote diversity, acceptance and individuality.

Quote:

Was it last year that the Lane Bryant advertisement was pulled for being "distasteful?"

That's something I wasn't aware of. Distasteful in what way?

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
People are trying to get across how "fat talk" can be harmful
when did humans get to be so like fine china? In that case the first order of business should be to toughen people up, because life is no rose garden. We were kicked out of Eden long ago, it is time to adjust to the new reality.

Yaknow, I can't help but notice that YOU are complaining all the time about what other people do or say. When did you get to be so like fine china? The first order of business really should be to toughen people like you up, because let's face it hawk, life is no rose garden.

Cycloptichorn

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Perhaps a unintended consequence of teaching girls that they should not care what the boys want, should not try to please men.

Well, I can only speak for myself, and maybe other women feel differently, but if you're in a relationship with a person that you love or even just like - it's only natural that you'd want that person to find you pleasing, isn't it? Would anyone want their partner to find them repugnant?

But even aside and apart from anyone else being pleased or repelled by the way someone looks, I know for myself that I find myself much more attractive at a normal weight of 120 for my 5'4 frame than my low weight of 108.
I hated looking in the mirror when I was that thin.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

Well, I can only speak for myself, and maybe other women feel differently, but if you're in a relationship with a person that you love or even just like - it's only natural that you'd want that person to find you pleasing, isn't it? Would anyone want their partner to find them repugnant?

it would be helpful to know how much females grow out of this negative self image once they do get older, in particular if it depends at all upon how much time they spend with men. My instincts are that you are correct, that men prefer women with some meat on their bones. I further suspect that once women spend much time with men as see for themselves that a few "extra" is appreciated by men that they alter their self criticism of their weight.

The only thing that I am not confident about is what reaction young girls get from boys their age. Do young men profess to like the thin better? Do thin college girls do better on the mating market then girls with a bit more substance?

It would be sad if girls of this age have been taught to not cater to boy desires, but instead of that they now form gaggles of their own kind and work themselves into body image disorders, which would have never happened if they knew and cared that boys like them better with more curves.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It's a play on the "friends don't let friends drink and drive" which was a message to help intervene on friends who would hurt themselves by getting into a car chemically impaired.
it is not a play off of, it is an appropriation of the legacy of the program "friends dont let friends drive drunk" which was in total the teaching that it is a moral imperative to get between a drunk friend and the car. There was no nicety about it, it was taught that even stealing the keys or taking a punch at your friends was justified in keeping them from getting behind the wheel. I am not so naive as to believe that this group intends anything other than to have the same reaction that a potential drunk driver engenders amongst friends to carry over to fat talking.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1) Find me anything from the sober driver campaign that ever suggested taking a swing. Please.

2) What exactly is the metaphorical equivalent here to taking a swing at your friend when they are putting themselves down?

You don't get it.

A
R
T

0 Replies

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

Quote:
If we are not allowed to talk about fat or even a normal overweight of a few pounds we might send a message that only skinny people are beautiful and that might cause this in even more young women.

The interesting thing is that if girls ever talk to men, I think they'd find that most men DO prefer curves and at least a healthy weight as opposed to skinniness. Or at least that's what I've heard the men I know say.

Those pictures of the bony girls in magazines and walking the runway are to sell clothes. Clothes look good hanging on that sort of frame. But that skinny, bony sort of frame isn't necessarily as attractive when the clothes come off.

Perhaps more important than trying to figure out what guys actually prefer, we...

1) Acknowledge that men like a diverse range of features - If we suddenly shift models, we aren't addressing the mentality, we're just moving the target.

2) Stop basing our self image off of other's desires - Many people would be much happier to be who they want to be, not just what is popular or desirable.

A
R
T

4 Replies

@failures art,

Quote:

Stop basing our self image off of other's desires - Many people would be much happier to be who they want to be, not just what is popular or desirable.

that would be stupidity....our success in life depends a great deal on the relationships that we form. The definition of successful relationship is that both people get some value out of it. Often times our value to the other person in a relationship is to a great extent decided by the extent to which we please them. When you counsel people not to care what other people think you are advising them to unilaterally lower their value, as well as their prospects for
success in life.

We must be true to ourselves, we must not pretend to be what we are not, but if we are to be successful most of us must try to please others. Very few people have enough talent or other advantages to get away with not caring what people think of them.

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@failures art,

He can't make up his mind. First, no one has an effect on what he says or does and then oops! yes they do.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

He can't make up his mind. First, no one has an effect on what he says or does and then oops! yes they do

assuming that you mean me...where did I say no one has an effect on what I say or do? I said that I am not responsible for the effect that what I do has on you unless I have violated you, which is not at all the same thing.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye AM run on emotions only so trying to explain a logical concept to her is a waste of time.

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@failures art,

Women have the disease of allowing the herd to dictate their lives to even a greater extend then men.

We should be trying to fight this herd behavior in our young people and to the best of our abilities produce free thinkers.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Could you please translate that to English. Even phonetics would be acceptable so that what you wrote is somewhat understandable.

Thank you.

1 Reply

Quote:

Fat Talk triggers unhealthy behaviors, whether the comments are consciously processed or not, putting yourself down verbally creates reverse inertia in all aspects of your life. Instead of inspiring you to get healthier, Fat Talk will motivate you to overeat, skip your workouts and stay involved in toxic relationships. Additionally, even if you don’t hear your own Fat Talk, your friends and family will, and it harms them emotionally, spiritually and physically as well.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38560934/ns/today-books/

WOW!

Quote:

Fat Talk isn’t about being overweight. In fact, Fat Talk has nothing to do with your size at all

.May I suggest that in that case perhaps this thing has been misnamed??

Quote:

Refrain from making judgments about yourself or other people based on appearance. Realize that complimentary statements about someone’s looks (“You look great! Have you lost weight?”) can be just as damaging as Fat Talk. Focus on personalities and achievements, not dress size.

OMG, that would put several entire industries out of business. Somehow I have my doubts about how realistic this call to arms is, as I don't think that we can will our brains to overlook the aesthetics aspects of life. Nor I am sure why we would want to....admiring a smoking hot woman is always one of the better parts of my day.

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@failures art,

Quote:

2) Stop basing our self image off of other's desires - Many people would be much happier to be who they want to be, not just what is popular or desirable.

That's exactly what I'm trying to express- that there must have been some sort of basic shift in how people view themselves in relation to others and their opinion in this generation of people if there is even the need for people to address the fact that someone looking at a picture or listening to a compliment would say to him or herself - 'Oh, I need to change myself to fit that mold' whatever it is.

I have two things from when I was a child- one is a little painted wooden chair and the other is a wooden plaque that says, 'Make your own kind of music' and has little mice playing instruments.

I tell you this because that plaque is indicative of the cultural philosophy of the time I grew up which basically told everyone that it was okay to 'Do your own thing, man...' just make sure you practice peace and love while you're doing it.'

So there were all sorts of girls, smart girls, hippy girls, good girls, bad girls, sporty girls, granola freaks, preppy girls, arty girls, etc.....and you could see the difference and that it was okay that everyone was just doing their own thing.

My question is: When did everyone decide they had to model themselves after everyone else and live up to some sort of one-size-fits-all image?

I think it's very, very sad.

And as an observant person, I don't think I'll be able to stop paying people compliments. And I don't think it's wrong or harmful.
I think it's ridiculous to change that part of our society instead of the other that has shaped the mindset of these girls/women and made them believe that they're ugly if they don't look exactly like a girl in a magazine or the one sitting in the desk next to them.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Intrepid (edited) wrote:

Coud u please translate that to English?
Even fonetics woud be acceptable,
so that what u wrote is somewhat understandable.

Thank u.

I 'll volunteer to try to help, Richard, subject to correction, if I err.
My typing will be in red:

BillRM (edited) wrote:

Women have the disease of allowing the herd
to dictate their lives to even a greater extent than men.

We shoud be trying to fight this herd behavior in our young people
and, to the best of our abilities, produce free thinkers.

Edited by:

David

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Personally, I find obesity repugnant and a product of gluttony, however I would never endorse any government efforts to control obesity.

Good Lord can we not get fat if we want to?

This is how it goes:

I don't like fat people --- let the government stop people from being fat
I don't like smokers --- let the government stop people from smoking
I don't like religion ---- let the government stop people from going to church

Sooner or later they will want to prohibit your behaviors.

2 Replies

Gluttony is fun if u do it right.

David

0 Replies

Friends don't let friends fat-talk

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