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Friends don't let friends fat-talk

 
 
saab
 
  2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:33 am
@InfraBlue,
It is about what I wanted to say....that the skinny body has become too much of a ideal. Did not say it too clearly.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 12:11 pm
Quote:
In one study, Martz and her colleagues showed 124 male and female college students a scene describing three women engaging in fat talk. The test subjects were then asked to predict how a fourth female would respond to this discussion.

Forty percent of male subjects and 51 percent of female subjects believed that the fourth female would self-degrade her body, in results that will be detailed in the June issue of the journal Body Image: An International Journal of Research.

“Because women feel pressured to follow the fat talk norm, they are more likely to engage in fat talk with other females,” Martz told LiveScience. “Hence, women normalize their own body dissatisfaction with one another.”

“If there are women out there who feel neutrally or even positively about their bodies, I bet we never hear this from them for fear of social sanction and rejection,” she said
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17600911/

I find it highly unlikely that "fact talk" normalizes and encourages women to feel bad about their bodies. I think that woman are, and always have been insecure about their bodies, and talking about insecurities is incredibly normal female behaviour.

The claim that we dont hear from women who feel good about their bodies is ridiculous, I hear it often, and sometimes from very fat women.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 12:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Wouldn't it be nice if we all had an Oprah like inner voice that was compassionate, encouraging and accepting? Imagine stepping in front of the mirror and instead of hearing critical comments about your weight or the "f" word immediately jumping into your head, you accept who you are. Sure, Oprah has had weight battles. But, she doesn't judge herself for this or use the "F" word as a personal weapon.

How to get there? We can't control when the voice pops up, but what we can control is how we respond. Instead of nodding in agreement with the critical inner voice, begin to ask yourself, in a nonjudgmental way, why you feel that way. Notice how Oprah phrases questions toward guests. The questions are nonjudgmental and simply push people to think deeper, particularly about things that would be an easy target for judgment. She begins questions with words like this: "I'm wondering," or, "I'm curious," or, "Help me understand," or, "Explain to me."

What if you already notice the presence of your critical inner voice and want to take it one step further? The good news is that self-affirmations can help. Affirmations are positive self-statements. Yes, it may feel silly and forced. But, they are about rewiring your inner critic. It's as easy as writing down five positive self-statements and repeating them silently to yourself throughout the day. In general, repetition will help turn these thoughts into automatic statements that you can bring to mind effortlessly. Create a mental shield to help defect critical thoughts.

Does this take practice? Yes. But, in the long run you will be on your way to quieting your critical inner voice and helping it to sound more Oprah-like.

In honor of No Fat Talk Week, try writing out five positive self-statements to combat the inner critic when the "F" word creeps into your inner dialogue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-susan-albers/fat-talk-free-week-think_b_325783.html

Defining fat talk as self talk makes program to discourage it much less offensive. I dont have the problem with encouraging a thought pattern that I do with communication policing and the demand for group-think. Although even on this level the program is somewhat ridiculous. The reasons women feel insecure and desire to be thin run deep....mantra's and five daily affirmations are not going to change much. This reminds me of the regualar bit that Saturday Night Live used to do about affermations and self talk with Stuart Smalley (al Franken). That was funny, this is kinda sad.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:02 pm
Perhaps the rational for not talking about good looks as well as being honest about fat

Quote:
We can try to make the world "fat talk free" by telling everyone how lovely they are, how amazing womanly curves are, how real beauty comes from the inside. But, as a teenage girl who has been conditioned to mindlessly parrot those responses to "fat talk," I know I'm going to have the same frustrating conversation next week. Women have become too accustomed to a scripted conversation about how they aren't fat and you're not fat and real women have curves.

Telling a woman she's not fat after she asks if she's fat is entirely pointless now. You're just going to have the same conversation with her as soon as she tries on the next pair of pants.

Rather than try to tell women not to use "fat talk" to discuss their bodies, or anyone else's, we ought to just stop validating it when they do. Bluntly put, I'm tired of letting people think I care about their whining.

Yes, I understand eating disorders are very serious. People should feel good about their bodies. But I rarely feel like I've accomplished anything by coddling someone's feelings using default answers like, "No, don't worry about it. Your butt looks great in those jeans."

Sometimes, instead of telling you just how gorgeously not fat you are, I'd rather just force you to watch me devour, without any shame, guilt or fear of judgment, a really great burger and fries.

Call it tough love. Or maybe it would just be mean. Either way, it's something you haven't heard hundreds of times, so maybe you'll actually pay attention
http://wildcat.arizona.edu/perspectives/does-fat-talk-free-day-help-anyone-1.1692223

I nice hint that what has gone wrong is responsibility for feelings, we all seem to feel responsible for what other people are feeling, for getting them to feel what we think they should feel. I am not even responsible for my own feelings, I sure as **** am not responsible for yours. Feelings come and go, we do not create them and we have little control over them. When we no longer understand this we humans do some very stupid things.

It is how we respond to feelings that we have power over.
Arella Mae
 
  3  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Blah, blah, blah. You don't take responsibility for anything, do you? Rolling Eyes
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:19 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Blah, blah, blah. You don't take responsibility for anything, do you
I am responsible for what I do. I am not however responsible for how you react to what I do, how what I do causes you to feel. You should have figured that out when your endless attempts to guilt trip me with emotional response have been a resounding failure. Only when I violate/transgress upon you do you have a valid complaint against me, you being repulsed by my presence and/or ideas is not evidence that you have been wronged. You never had the right to expect/demand that other people would think or act like you want them to do.
djjd62
 
  -2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
very true
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  5  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Blah, blah, blah. You don't take responsibility for anything, do you
I am responsible for what I do. I am not however responsible for how you react to what I do, how what I do causes you to feel. You should have figured that out when your endless attempts to guilt trip me with emotional response have been a resounding failure. Only when I violate/transgress upon you do you have a valid complaint against me, you being repulsed by my presence and/or ideas is not evidence that you have been wronged. You never had the right to expect/demand that other people would think or act like you want them to do.
Well, aren't you the pot calling the kettle black! Just what do you think you are doing with this thread? Duh! Expecting/demanding that other people would think or act like you want them to. You try to blame rape victims for their own rapes and then you turn around and say the only person responsible for suicide is the person that commited it. You also think it should be legal (and you've railed about it quite a bit) that you should be able to view child porn. The same common thread in everyone of your posts. You want to do what you want to do and to hell with the rest of the world. So you can stuff it Hawkeye. You are such a hypocrite.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:35 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Just what do you think you are doing with this thread? Duh! Expecting/demanding that other people would think or act like you want them to
I am objecting to an organized attempt to get people to tell other people what they should think/feel. This is organized bullying, this is organized assaulting of individuals who are not thinking/feeling what some other individuals think that they should think/feel. This program is offensive.
Arella Mae
 
  5  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Just what do you think you are doing with this thread? Duh! Expecting/demanding that other people would think or act like you want them to
I am objecting to an organized attempt to get people to tell other people what they should think/feel. This is organized bulling, this is organized assaulting of individuals who are not thinking/feeling what some other individuals think that they should think/feel. This program is offensive.
Oh, I get it. Theirs is organized and yours isn't so that justifies you doing exactly what you are complaining about someone else is doing. Do not make me laugh!
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I am not however responsible for how you react to what I do, how what I do causes you to feel.

But when you react to what others do, it becomes your job to "inspire" people to "resist" and "fight back."

hawkeye10 wrote:
You never had the right to expect/demand that other people would think or act like you want them to do.

This is your exact mantra with all your "collective" propaganda you espouse here on A2K.

A
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failures art
 
  2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Just what do you think you are doing with this thread? Duh! Expecting/demanding that other people would think or act like you want them to
I am objecting to an organized attempt to get people to tell other people what they should think/feel. This is organized bullying, this is organized assaulting of individuals who are not thinking/feeling what some other individuals think that they should think/feel. This program is offensive.

It didn't take you long to get to this part. I knew somehow you'd make yourself into the victim here. People who are trying to moderate their own language are now "organized bullies" beating up on poor hawkeye.

A
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hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:03 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
But when you react to what others do, it becomes your job to "inspire" people to "resist" and "fight back."
when I see things that I believe have good wrong, are wrong, it is my moral obligation to speak up and object. How in your mind does this connect with my being responsible for your feelings?

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:06 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
People who are trying to moderate their own language
had you read the OP you would know that the current objective is to moderate the language on university campuses for one week a year. The long term goal is to moderate the language everywhere all the time. You have completely failed to understand the subject being discussed here.
failures art
 
  1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
But when you react to what others do, it becomes your job to "inspire" people to "resist" and "fight back."
when I see things that I believe have good wrong, are wrong, it is my moral obligation to speak up and object. How in your mind does this connect with my being responsible for your feelings?

So when people on a campus see something that they feel is wrong, they don't have the same moral obligation to speak up and object?

Telling you that you're a hypocrite would be like telling a burning man he's on fire. You should have figured it out by now.

A
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failures art
 
  2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
People who are trying to moderate their own language
had you read the OP you would know that the current objective is to moderate the language on university campuses for one week a year. The long term goal is to moderate the language everywhere all the time. You have completely failed to understand the subject being discussed here.

No hawk. YOU do not understand. This is a voluntary activity that is designed to challenge the participants in how they address others. There is no policing of speech. You don't get the point of this, and I'm not surprised.

A
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hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:18 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
So when people on a campus see something that they feel is wrong, they don't have the same moral obligation to speak up and object
that would be the exact opposite of what is being done here, the demanding that a subject not be talked about.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:27 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
This is a voluntary activity that is designed to challenge the participants in how they address others.


"Friends DONT LET friends fat talk" This is not a challenge, this is goading, and it is implied that this is not voluntary but rather a moral mandate.

Be careful, you are taking after firefly with your dishonesty in debate.
failures art
 
  1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
So when people on a campus see something that they feel is wrong, they don't have the same moral obligation to speak up and object
that would be the exact opposite of what is being done here, the demanding that a subject not be talked about.

How dense are you? This doesn't demand that the subject not be talked about. Quite opposite. The point is very much to talk about and challenge the accepted standards of beauty, their reality, and the psychological effect it has on people. We can talk about the subjects of self image and body image. We can do it without using language that promotes insecurity.

You don't get it.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This is a voluntary activity that is designed to challenge the participants in how they address others.


"Friends DONT LET friends fat talk" This is not a challenge, this is goading, and it is implied that this is not voluntary but rather a moral mandate.

Be careful, you are taking after firefly with your dishonesty in debate.

You're hell bent on having this mean what you insist it means and not what it actually means.

It's a play on the "friends don't let friends drink and drive" which was a message to help intervene on friends who would hurt themselves by getting into a car chemically impaired. The idea of not letting friends fat talk is the same: You don't let your friends put themselves down. It's to fight against self-deprecation. You can't control what other put out in the world, only what you put out.

You don't get it.

A
R
T
 

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