Question: Do you consider yourself passive aggressive?

Pemerson, you're taking this example too literally. In the case of this woman, this was her way of dealing with many other things, related to work, or not. I was using this as an example, not as an isolated incident.

Notes?
Oh yeah, like over the years both I and other people had not suggested "it'd be a good idea for you to take notes on this." regardless of what the subject matter was.

Fair enough.
What are your thoughts on what P/A is?

I've tried not to use the term lightly. I don't think about labeling someone that in my mind until there has been a clear pattern over a long period of time.

PA techniques can be used over a SHORT period of time.





David

I understand your viewpoint. It is a very good thing to recognize when someone is trying to manipulate you. We often learn this through experience. It is less useful to put a label on someone. I myself have been wrong too often whenever I tried to practice "amateur Freudianism."

'Course the same is true of scientific and legal terminology as well.

PS I was recalling with RP last night an instance when I was P/A. It was, God, 15 (?) years ago so details are sketchy. I was on a business trip with my boss and a few others. My boss (a woman) had to stay in my room the first night, due to a mixup in the reservations. She was packing up to leave the room and go into her own room for the second night.

There was her laptop cord, still plugged into the wall. I sat and stared at that thing for, I dunno, 10 minutes (20?), not telling her about it. I have no idea why I was just sorta waiting for her (she was racing around like a nut, even though we were in no hurry and she did not need to) to yank it outta the wall. Don't know what I was expecting.

I finally ended up just yanking the plug out of the wall myself and packing it for her. She thanked me.

I still have no idea why I was just watching her run around although I suspect I was annoyed by the rushing and general disorganized insanity which was totally unnecessary as we were not trying to catch a cab or a flight or anything. She was just moving to another room down the hall, and it was this huge production.

Cannot recall how it made me feel. It certainly did not profit me in any way to be like this. It was, as they say, not teamwork type behavior. But otherwise, it was mild. Just kinda dumb on my part.

Certainly not - at least not for the scientific terminology. Legal terminology tends to be fairly precise as well. Psycho-anything lacks the concept of precise definition of terms: we have hundreds of psychobabbling "schools" in the US alone, each with diagnoses and treatments that vary over time.

Since you seem to understand what the headline of this thread means, can you explain it to me please? An explanation that's (i) coherent, (ii) not riddled with psycho-jargon, and (iii) concise, from the original poster here, is so highly improbable that I hope you'll take the time to do it. Thanks.

Does anybody understand exactly what it is you're writing? Ever? Do you understand it the next day? If you do, can you tell me what that post means? Please start with the first sentence: "Hesitation, apprehension, fear, so forth to appear"? "Unreasonable"? To whom?!

I do, helen. but then I get you, too...

Like I say he was funny lookin'....more than most people even.

I don't think I am smart enough to be passive-aggressive. I am also not smart enough to be a good manipulator. It strikes me as a lot of thought has to go in to doing it successfully, and that's just extra work. Although years ago, I was flattered that people would say I was a straight shooter, I learned that not everybody who asks your opinion really wants to hear what you think. It's also important to exercise diplomacy or be sensitive when you are negotiating with your employees, peers or superiors to avoid the appearance of possible intimidation or cockiness.

Squinney was dead on describing a successful way of dealing with people who lean too heavily on a supervisor and if you allow everyone to do that, then you can't get your job done. I worked for DOD for 32 years, and our Agency was a hybrid of civilian and Military personnel. We worked together to accomplish our mission, you understand that from time to time there would be friction between the civilians and Military. Most of the management positions were staffed by civilians but the most senior management positons were rotated between Flag officers and the Senior Executive Service.

During one assignment, I had 4 team leaders who were responsible for 42 addional people. Between answering to the Division and managing my workforce I could get way behind if I walked each and every one thru every task they were assigned. This particular assignment required me to oversee the work of linguists, and numerous technical specialties. Since I had studied the language, often linguists would pop in as ask questions, and the one that always sticks with me was the young man who asked me the meaning of a word he had come across. I asked him how it was used, he read the sentance to me...and I was mulling things over and said, did you check the language dictionary? He said, "Oh, good idea", reached up for the dictionary and handed it to me. I hope I handled this the right way, because it struck me funny that he thought I would check his dictionary for him and I gave him a warm smile and said, oh no, Vince, I don't need to know the meaning, you do. He looked a little surprised, he could have been a little embarrassed, but he and I were the only ones there so no one else heard the exchange. My reason was not to beat him over the head but to remind him a lot of answers can be found by using the tools at your disposal.

The roughest group I ever had comprised 62 people, mostly military, ex-military and civilians. It was an argumentative group who thought whoever got the loudest won the day. We had to have several meetings regarding style to get that tempered. That was probably the challenging assignment I ever had, too many ego's, too much bravado and it didn't help matters that I was a woman (division chief) in an almost all-male division. I could give examples all night and lull you all to sleep about the PA and DA people I had to deal with. If anything pops up on the thread that reminds me of something I'll post later.

I suppose that after all this time I don't understand passive aggressive as a move.. I think of it as what people do when they are made to be polite for years, and that they don't do it on purpose, but from heartfeltness.. Snarky. And then snarky and beyond. And propelled to challenge, sometimes well, and sometimes wackily. Of course, this is common anyway. Probably encapsulates much of the world.

I think manipulation is another jump, probably crossed early. I see it happening, but there is foreigness to me. Not that I am virtuous, but manipulation isn't attractive.

After some research on the meaning of the term "passive-aggressive" I reached the tentative conclusion that it (Wandel may wish to correct this definition) really means "being deliberately obtuse", and it's a concept analogous to the strategy of the weaker party in asymmetrical warfare. So claiming to be "not smart enough" doesn't work if you truly are very smart - and I've known you long enough to know that's the case. Rather, you've probably never been the weaker (or resource-poorer) party in a game-theoretical sense, so you never had to adopt that tactical approach.

Now people who are genuinely too obtuse (or just incoherent for reasons other than stupidity) probably have no choice in the matter - they must be "passive aggressive" because they're incapable of interacting in any other way. If that line of reasoning is anywhere near correct (and I'm happy to be corrected by Wandel or anyone else familiar with the nomenclature) the only one who passes that test so far with flying colors is the original poster.

If the below defines it, then everyone I've known has had this trait to some degree, so what's the big deal? I suppose if it's clinically extreme then it's a real problem otherwise...welcome to the human condition! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive%E2%80%93aggressive_behavior

Yes, sure, I see your point and see what this person you talk about is doing probably with all concerned with him/her to any degree. I'm beginning to understand what this PA is all about.

I wonder if it fits this person: He seems to always hope bad things will come to someone he thinks has crossed him in some way, yet he never says anything directly to that person or lets on any way that he's feeling out of sorts. I think that's vicious because the other person doesn't know he hurt or insulted him.

So, he responds in a passive nature, all the while probably feeling a ton of anger. His remark later is, "Well, he'll get his some day." Hence, the 'hope.' He may as well make the little doll, pick it with pins. We call him the hoper.

Actually, I've known two of these PA people. Maddening. I wouldn't want too many of these people angry at me. Hoping.

Thanks for that link, Chum.
I think that text describes how I would have described passive aggressiveness. I'd add, never calmly and clearly voicing disagreement with or without added argument points. And I'll add, re 'resentment', that it is a kind of 'I'm a victim' trait.

Nodding with Chumly and Osso's definition of PA as I understand it. Being one that very early on had an interest in people watching and psychology of behavior, I've surprised myself numerous times with self-revelations.

So, if I allow someone to scurry around in a panic looking for their keys / wallet/head instead of just telling them where the item is am I being PA or am I not allowing myself to:

a) be part of that persons chaos
b) be overly relied upon by that person to solve their problems?

I think it is determined by my motive behind not helping. Did I sabotage making it to a meeting or appointment on time by not helping? Did I not want to go to the appointment to begin with? Did it prevent the person hunting for their keys from getting to an appointment I didn't want them to go to? Did I not care one way or the other? Was I feeling superior in watching this person mentally lose it in their panic?

Or, was it just as I said in a & b above?

The motive, to me is known only by the person being PA. Therefore, I don't have to take on their passive aggressiveness as personal. It is within them and not something I control. All I have to do is recognize that it may be their mode of operation, that I might want to anticipate it next time, address them about it or avoid allowing them future opportunities to behave this way with me.

We're all only human. We all have positive and negative things about us. I think we all, too often, try to take on the other persons negatives as a personal affront rather than allowing it to remain with that person, which is where it belongs. To me, that's just our ego's wanting everything to be about us when it isn't. It's about the other persons life. experiences, personality, etc.

Being PA is NOT doing anything
in circumstances that do not require u to do anything,
but that doing something can assist someone who has gotten u mad at him.





David