Question: Do you consider yourself passive aggressive?

Hi jes.

Sometimes I think it is our hesitation, apprehension, fear, so forth to appear that we are being somehow unreasonable.

Unfortunately, one PA person, telling others how unreasonable you are can effectively posion future relationship with people you don't even know, or work with yet.

Hold on, I have to interupt myself for a moment. My feelings of frustration w/ PA people are almost entirely work based. In my personal, if I run across a PA person, I literally walk away from them. I don't have any desire to have to work so hard to interpret what they are trying to communicate.

Ha. Just thought of something. I just commented on another thread I started about my morning glories. I can relate this plant in some ways to PA people.
After a while, this plant (person) effects so many different aspects of the garden (organization) it becomes a detriment.
At the same time, you think to yourself, "but, it is a pretty plant, and that what I wanted, a pretty plant. Hmmm....but it's not allowing other plants to grow the way they should. Well, ok, I'm going to pull some of it out. Yeah, I know I should pull all of it out, but dammit, it is attractive. Don't want to through out the baby with the bath water."
So, you decide to pull up at least some of the plant....Hell, in a moment of bravery, you decide to pull up ALL of it.

But then....

Every time you turn around. There it is again. It's dropped its seeds all over the place, and they just keep sprouting.

You patiently pull up each sproutling, but they just keep coming. Finally, in frustration, you give up, and once again the garden is dealing with this invasive plant.

Morning glories, and passive aggressive people, are both not all they are cracked up to be.

Vinegar works. On both.

Yep, I'd fire his sorry ass.

If your expectations are reasonable (he may not agree, but with a 9.5% unemployment rate there are plenty of candidates out there who may be a better fit) and he isn't up to the task then at some point you just have to let him go. One P/A way of handling it is to transfer him to another dept and make him someone else's problem. Unless, of course, he's really better suited for that other job.

nodding.

I think most of us can agree on what PA behavior is.

Sometimes it's not in your power to "fire his sorry ass"

Getting back to one of my original questions, for anyone that is brave enough to admit they are PA.....

Why is it you think it's ok to, for instance make more work for one or more people, when something is bothering you?

I'm genuinely curious why one wouldn't communicate in a more upfront manner.

I don't want to make it sound like this is just a thread to complain. What is it you want, and how do you think you gain it through your behavior?

Do you feel it works for you?
Have you found it has lost you the respect, or gained toward you frustration from others?

My impression of people who are PA is that they are constantly juggling too many balls in the air.
Isn't that more work than it's worth?

Roberta mentioned sulking.

That I will say is very unacceptable to me. What that boils down to is "just because you are having a bad day, everyone has to walk on eggshells around you."

Seriously? Screw that.

This isn't a PA example (or maybe it is. yeah, maybe it is) but it reminds me of something that happened back when I first moved back to Tx, about 15 years ago.

While seeking employment, I needed a cash income, so took a job at a local car wash as a cashier. I had non of my ego invested in this job, I just need to work while I looked for work. I was there maybe 6-7 months.

There was this young guy there, who to the other "kids" seemed really important. From what I could make out, it was because his parents had money, he was going to college, gonna be a doctor or something, had an expensive truck. To me, he was just some guy. Heh, I remember once someone quoted some opinion this guy had, ending it with "Tommy's really smart". I responded, "Yeah, well so am I"
Anyway, one morning he came in extrememly hung over, and apparantly let everyone know it. Like everyone was supposed to walk on egg shells, keep a quite voice around him, because he felt like ****.
He came walking near me when I was laughing loudly about something, and someone said "shhh...don't make so much noise, Tommy's really hung over."

Oh ****.

I just said, Really Loudly. "So what? It's not my problem he was stupid enough to drink too much and now feels like ****." then I said directly to him "I'm not going to act differently because of something you did. If you feel that bad, go home"

In other words, don't sulk around me. It's not my problem you're in a bad mood.

Chai, this is cut and pasted from the Forgiveness Thread.
It seems to be applicable to both threads ( u think ?? ):


In 1978, I joined Mensa. I then attended my first Mensa Regional Gathering (a convention) in a major hotel of Manhattan.
I had called the NY Telephone Co., by whom I had been informed that a local call from a non-coin fone cost 6 cents.
At about that time, a spiritual advisor named Tony (whose wisdom I respected) recommended forgiveness
and he suggested that we practice doing it. We needed targets; someone to forgive.

I enjoyed the first day of the 1978 New York Mensa Regional Gathering (the biggest Mensa chapter in the world).
It had been my practice, of some years standing, that I called home occasionally to speak to my dead friend, Neil,
just to make sure that everything was OK. I had grown acccustomed to drawing assurance from this practice.

In the evening, I was in the Hospitality Suite of the convention, up on the 18th Floor of the hotel.
I saw a fone and I wanted to call home, as was my wont. I thawt it best to ask permission before using that fone.
Accordingly, I asked permission of a lady named Marlene who was on the Mensa Board of Directors to use that fone; she refused.
I offered her a dime; she refused again.
I offered her a quarter; she refused again.
I offered her a dollar; she refused again.

It occurred to me to simply throw $1 at her and use the fone anyway,
but I restrained myself out of respect for private property.
Internally, I was in a rage, but I confined myself to reasonable politeness.
I did not call home; I coud have gone down to the street floor
and used a coin fone, but I was too lazy for that, in keeping with tradition.

Thus, I did not call home; (in 1978, we did not have cell fones).
In furtherance of Tony 's advice, I used Marlene as a mental target for forgiveness.
It was like lifting a heavy weight (wate) and most unpleasant to do, but I did it.

In 1980, I was on the NY Mensa Board of Directors and we had another convention, to raise more fund$.
I was the Treasurer of that convention. Accordingly, I had possession of the Treasure (registration revenues)
and officers of NY Mensa applied to me to honor their expense accounts. Marlene called me and she requested me
to re-imburse her for a (personal) call from the hotel to New Jersey, in the amount of $6.
In keeping with policy of the Board of Directors, I refused to pay her for a personal call.
Marlene called me at home several times to get her $6 back.
I consistently refused and I never paid her. (Multiple be the chuckles.)

" What goes around comes around."

I was impressed by the exact 100:1 ratio of her $6 call
to my (frustrated and unexecuted) 6 cent call.

" The wheels of the gods grind slowly, but thay grind exceeding fine. "





David

If you'd really forgiven her, you would have paid her back, so yes, I think you were being PA.

One might think that was her karma, but I don't think karma would come back in such a related way.

I was innocently executing the policies of the Board.

Y shoud Marlene have her personal calls paid by Mensa ?

No, you weren't innocently doing it, it was fulfilling your need for retribution.

If you had truly forgiven her, you might have considered paying the $6 yourself, since you were will to pay $1 a year before.

The $5 difference could have been for the good of both yours and Marlene's spirits.

I have been known to be passive aggressive. Not to the point of sabotaging a project at work or something like that.

I think it is correct to correlate upbringing. If one is raised to be quiet, respectful, follow orders, not speak up when wronged, etc., that frustration has to be released somehow.

The more I have looked at Bears "Or What?" tattoo, the less passive aggressive I have become.

If a co-worker or subordinate were sabotaging a project, at this point in my life, I'd probably point it out to them tactfully and compassionately. I'd start with the assumption that they don't understand what they are doing or why, rather than taking it personally.

It was co-incidental that Marlene shared Joyce 's married last name.





David

Someone told u NOT to speak up when ronged ????????

Thanks squinney for answering.

So, when you do act PA, are you realizing it is causing frustration to others?
Is that your intent, or do you not care?

Re how to approach a co-worker/sub, oh sure, if it's the odd occassion, or the first time somethings happening, of course one would assume they just needed help/didn't fully understand something, etc.

I'm talking about people that make this a way of life.

Actually thinking about it, I DO know someone at work who, even though she will not understand what is wanted/how to do something, will proceed, complete the task and hand it in.
Now realize this is someone who has done this many times.
When this first started, over time I would then make sure that if I needed her to do something, I'd make sure I'd given her instruction/direction. I would then ask her if she understood, to which she'd say yes. I would add in asking her if she had questions, to which she would say no.

Work would come back incorrect. The explanation "I didn't understand it" and didn't want to ask questions.

Same person...I was going to transition a duty over to her, since I wasn't going to be involved in that aspect any longer. Knowing her history, I worked up a power point for her, each screen showing the next step (circles around where to click next, what would happen then, etc)

A few weeks later, when she was supposed to start the task, I got a call from her supervisor. She asked me if I could come over and teach the person how to perform the task. I let her sprv know I'd sent her a PP, etc. but apparantly the person was indicating she didn't understand it.

I went over (it made more sense for me to go there, than have her come to me) and we sat down together.

Me: Do you have that PP?
PA: Yes
Me: You didn't understand it?
PA: I didn't look at it.
Me: Why not? That why I made it for you? You can always use it in the future as a reference.

Then I asked her to find the PP, which she had printed out and "put somewhere"

I sat with her and she said "Ok, what do I do first"
Me: What does it say to do first?
PA: Well....hemming and hawing, she finally said "it says to go into xyz"
Me: Ok
PA: So, how do I do that?
Me: What does it say about that?
PA: (looking for the first time) Where?
Me: Under where it says "go into xyz"
PA: it says...."To get into xyz go to the abc dept and click on the qrs icon"
Me: ok

Finally, about halfway through this, she finally accepted I was going to have her follow the instructions that had been written out. I knew from past experience if I told her verbally, which is what she wanted, she could later say any number of things as to why she couldn't do it.

In addition, if I had shown frustration, she would have told her boss (she has in the past) how awful I was.

Thank God I don't have to deal with her anymore. In addition, the person that is my equiv to me over her is a very difficult person. I know she wishes she had me back.

David - no, not told outright not to stand up for myself when wronged. More like parents shooing away or not taking seriously claims of being bullied or hurt when they knew good and well that it happened and that I couldn't possibly physically defend myself against that person. They just didn't want to deal with it at the moment, were busy with their own adult concerns, or whatever. Since it was a sibling, I found ways to get back at him that didn't further endanger myself or my other siblings.



I don't think I did it to frustrate. Weird as it sounds to type out here, it was to hurt. A good example would when Bear forgot our anniversary. Rather than saying happy anniversary to him and then planning something to do together, I stewed all day and then plopped a cupcake with a candle in front of him after supper and waited for him to figure out the occasion. It wasn't to frustrate him. It was to let him know he hurt my feelings by not placing enough importance on it to remember.

I can look at that now and think "Good gawd! What a drama queen! Get over yourself already!"

I don't get the p/a in the example you provided unless you are feeling she was playing "untrained" in order to purposely hurt you /your job in some way. If that were the case, and if it were me today, I'd probably do what you did, but also include asking her why she didn't go through the power point, if it was intentional as a way to get back at me for something she felt I did to her, and if so why didn't she just tell me when I did it and allow me to explain myself, etc. I dunno. I have a way of doing that now that is not aggressive or threatening that can't come across just from typing here.

It would also now be my first assumption that, in your example, the person doesn't care about her job, isn't happy where she is or with something in her life rather than taking on the assumption that she was being passive aggressive towards me. But, you may have other experiences with her that lead you to take it personally.

Thing is squinny, I think that PA behavior usually frustrates other people more than hurts them.

Maybe the PA is doing something in order to "get back at" or hurt another, but what is more does is make the other person think "what the F**k is Wrong with this person.

In this way, I think PA behavior backfires a lot of the time, since the message being sent isn't the message being received.

BTW, the person I was speaking of? "oy, don't get me started. on occassions when I'd try to nicely get to the core of what was going on, there was never any progress."

To MY mind, being passive-aggressive means doing nothing,
under circumstances when u r within your rights to do nothing,
but u have the ability (within your discretion) to rescue someone who has offended u, by doing something.

For instance:
if I know that someone who has offended me
intends to do something (time-sensitive) that he needs to do
or to go somewhere that he needs to go, at a particular time
and if I see that he has forgotten about it,
I have NO duty to remind him of it,
but I have the ability to remind him, if I feel like it.


If I just watch n quietly chuckle (enjoy the show)
that is being passive-aggressive, as I understand the idea.


PAness is an effortless form of vengeance.





David

Funny, Mame, and true too.

It makes some people very nervous to have someone hanging over a shoulder, or sitting close, while teaching computer work. It makes some people very nervous to have to teach it, i.e., sitting close, standing behind. I know because I've been in both experiences.

I learn easier if some does, yes, give me the directions, then watches while she/he shows how much she understands. Some people, like me, would learn better if you verbally told me instructions, then asked me to run it once or twice to see if it's clear. Maybe she can make her own notes. Teaching computers is a bear. My editor used to verbally tell me something about blasted computers while I took my own notes. Very little conversation works best.

I have a general complaint. People seem to borrow terminology from psychology and then use the terminology in a much too casual way. A lot of descriptive terms in psychology have a more narrow meaning than we realize.

Yeah, look below, where the first related topic is Mental Illness.

Upon a brief review, i must say, this is a fun, slightly snarky thread. (i don't mean to imply that the OP was being snarky.)

I admit that my default position when faced with conflict used to be P/A behavior. To some degree i was raised in an environment that fostered it, but i was largely ignorant that i was exhibiting said behavior. (I also think that introverted people who tend to be overly-conscious of their own emotions [and are thus largely ignorant of the nature of their acts], in contrast to their circumstances, are also prone to this manner of behaving.) In adulthood, i was broken of the habit by a particularly forthright girlfriend who would not stand for it, "invisible, bearded sky- giant" bless her.

After enjoying the benefits of avoiding PA, i'm not entirely certain why i persisted in such behavior for so long. Two reasons occur to me: 1) lack of imagination. 2) it often works. One of the strategic advantages P/A persons often enjoy is that, through persistence, one's target often become enraged enough that one wins "rationality" points in the specific argument. (Of course, in the long run it often leads to one's rationality being discounted, wholesale.) My disavowal of the mindset established, i occasionally still employ passive-aggressive methods within certain, debate-oriented situations. However, their deployment is usually tactical, not strategic or habitual.

Are parentheses a sign of passive-aggressiveness? Damn.