Alternatives to jail/prison

You're mixing things up here. If rehabilitation were the only purpose of punishment, then I'd agree: incarceration isn't the best option. Indeed, it wouldn't even be a logical or morally justifiable option, since prisons do a terrible job of rehabilitating prisoners.

It's not me who initiated this theory that incarceration is not the best option for rehabilitation. But when I was challenged on it, I had to admit that in some ways I've come to see that it's not even the best option for punishment. I guess I do still believe it is the best way to keep the public safe from the criminal element and the results of criminal intent

In this particular scenario, George Michael isn't a patient who is supposed to be treated by the state, he's an offender whose role is now to serve as a bad example for others to avoid. If he gets rehabilitated in the process, so much the better, but that's not the sole purpose of punishment.

Europe has decided against it. Anybody who uses such barbaric solutions is denied entry to the EEC.

That's alright David. But now that you're aware of the parameters, do you have any ideas?

How naive do you want to get Dave?

Do you want the human race never to be healed
so you can go on forever with your psuedo machismo.

Healed from what ?? inquires David

“The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country. A calm and dispassionate recognition of the rights of the accused against the state and even of convicted criminals against the state, a constant heart-searching by all charged with the duty of punishment, a desire and eagerness to rehabilitate in the world of industry of all those who have paid their dues in the hard coinage of punishment, tireless efforts towards the discovery of curative and regenerating processes and an unfaltering faith that there is a treasure, if only you can find it in the heart of every person – these are the symbols which in the treatment of crime and criminals mark and measure the stored up strength of a nation, and are the sign and proof of the living virtue in it.”

There is an open prison

in the south of England where all the road signs are manufactured.

The problem with putting prisoners to productive slavery is that the unions object to the jobs of their members being taken by people earning £5 a week.

Another problem is that judges might send more people to prison
for longer periods in order the make money for their friends. (As as happened recently in the USA).

Healed from what ?? inquires David

What you would cause if you weren't as powerless and as ineffective as you obviously are.

spendius wrote:
Do you want the human race never to be healed [This implies that as of NOW
the race needs "to be healed"]
so you can go on forever with your psuedo machismo.

Healed from what ?? inquires David

These guys have learned that when they get out - they might have all the skills they need to get a job - but who's going to hire a plumber to go into peoples' homes when they have a record for assault or robbery?
And how do you live without a job? That's why the recidivism rate is so high.

The thing is, you can't fix everything or everyone. Not everyone a) thinks they need to be fixed, and/or b) wants to be fixed. Those that do respond well to rehabilitative measures; those that don't, don't.

Healed from what

What is the relationship between mental health problems and offending?

More than 70% of the prison population has two or more mental health disorders. Male prisoners are 14 times more likely to have two or more disorders than men in general, and female prisoners 35 times more likely than women in general - Social Exclusion Unit (2004) quoting, Psychiatric Morbidity Among Prisoners In England And Wales, (1998)

Literacy among prisoners and offenders
In the UK, the Every Child A Reader programme makes it unequivocally clear that basic literacy is essential to future success. 70% of pupils permanently excluded from school have difficulties in basic literacy skills. 25% of young offenders are said to have reading skills below those of the average seven-year-old. 60% of the prison population is said to
have difficulties in basic literacy skills.
These findings built on existing results from a prison service study, which asks prisoners on reception to take a literacy test devised by the Basic Skills Agency. The test is approximately equivalent to the reading skills expected of 9 to 10-year-olds. The 1998 results showed that 60% had problems with literacy, and 40% had severe literacy problems. Similarly, the Social Exclusion Unit reported that 80% of prisoners have writing skills at or below the level expected of an 11-year-old child; the equivalent figure
for reading is 50% (Social Exclusion Unit, 2002:6).
The acute shortage of literacy skills amongst prisoners are predictably reflected in qualification levels, with a 2005 DFES study revealing that 52% of male prisoners and 71% of female prisoners have no qualifications at all. A Prison Reform Trust (2008) study suggested 48% of prisoners have a reading level at or below Level 1, while an even greater proportion (65%) have a numeracy level at or below Level 1. In addition, it is perhaps unsurprising that 67% of all prisoners were unemployed at the time of
imprisonment.

Anyway, this is an age-old problem and I doubt those of us here are going to solve it anytime soon.

And actually, would YOU hire a plumber who has a record for assault or robbery? What? You could be attacked? Robbed? Come on!

And actually, would YOU hire a plumber who has a record for assault or robbery? What? You could be attacked? Robbed? Come on!

I probably would. I hired a guy who had a record for robbery and fraud to work in a business I owned. He was a good cook.
I just made sure he worked when I was there and never left him alone with the till.
It all went fine- he never stole anything from me - he's been out of prison four years now.
You know sometimes when someone has an assault or grievious bodily harm conviction on their record it means they got in a fight in a pub or something.