How do you see the burning of Holy Koran by pastor Terry Jones

@contrex,

i appreciate your understanding, but i did not make that disclaimer for you, or other reasonable people. i made it so that other, unreasonable, people would not misconstrue my remarks as an endorsement of "anti-American" sentiments. i made that qualifying statement to show that the US ideal is bigger than any form of the bigotry, which both forms of extremism i described certainly exemplify.

It was not a statement i enjoyed making, because it invited the insult of "waffling", but the distinction between political extremism and reason must be made explicitly if justice is to win out.

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This is exactly, what I'd expect coming from a bigot and a fundamentalist.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

OMG

We have muslims galore killing thousands of infidels whenever they can and we are supposed to believe they don't represent Islam.

We have one jackwagon in FLA pulling a publicity stunt and there is a mad rush to assert it is a representation of American Christianity.

Yes, that is what is called a double-standard, and one typical of Liberals and left-wingers. Somehow, people who are not Caucasian are treated either as if whatever grievances they have give them a free pass to do anything they like, and although what they do is deplorable, we should be able to "understand" them, which is to say, sympathize with them. They are treated a wayward children who just need a little love and attention. But if Caucasians react, even stupidly, that becomes intolerable, and the wrath of the left hurtles down on them. It is weird. But, as I said, typical.

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@kennethamy,

Most here have said that most Americans don't approve of the idea of burning the Quran. So I really don't think your accusation is quite fair.

There does seem a rise again in some parts of Christian extremist and some words from right wing pundits have gone a little over the line. However, just because some right wing republicans express extreme view points towards Muslims, I don't think all republicans share the same view points.
I don't think Muslim extremist should be treated with kid gloves, they should be held accountable for their words as well as their actions the same as anyone else.

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@revelette,

revelette wrote:

There does seem a rise again in some parts of Christian extremist and some words from right wing pundits have gone a little over the line. However, just because some right wing republicans express extreme view points towards Muslims, I don't think all republicans share the same view points.
I don't think Muslim extremist should be treated with kid gloves, they should be held accountable for their words as well as their actions the same as anyone else.

Most here have said that most Americans don't approve of the idea of burning the Quran. So I really don't think your accusation is quite fair.

How does it follow from the premise that most posters have said that most Americans don't approve of burning the Koran, there isn't a double-standard in how leftist-Liberals do not have a double-standard? What connection is there supposed to be between the premise and the conclusion. Any?

All the evidence is that the left tend to excuse not merely the depredations of Muslims, but excuse all non-Caucasians. It is the old "Officer Krupke" syndrome from West Side Story "We're not bad. We're just misunderstood".

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@kennethamy,

Quote:

How does it follow from the premise that most posters have said that most Americans don't approve of burning the Koran, there isn't a double-standard in how leftist-Liberals do not have a double-standard? What connection is there supposed to be between the premise and the conclusion. Any?

I would think the conclusion is obvious. Since most posters here have said (those considered on the left whether they are or not) that most Americans do not approve of the proposed Quran burning, then we are not attributing all Christians or (republicans/conservatives) with the same sentiments as expressed by the fellow who said he was going to burn the Quran. So there is no double standard for instance we those on the left said it is not fair to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few in the Mosque controversy.

Quote:

All the evidence is that the left tend to excuse not merely the depredations of Muslims, but excuse all non-Caucasians. It is the old "Officer Krupke" syndrome from West Side Story "We're not bad. We're just misunderstood".

There is no evidence except made up by certain segments of the right. The mere fact that the left by and large defend Muslims who are not guilty (or presumed innocent unless evidence proves the contrary) of anything does not mean we excuse wrong doing from Muslims and all non Caucasians if in fact their actions or planned actions or words merit disapproval.

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@revelette,

wait, so moslems aren't all evil Confused

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@revelette,

I liked my idea better; rather than taking a poll on whether Americans agree or disagree about the Koran burning, they should organize christians who would burn ten bibles for every Koran Jones burns.

Jesus would have loved that!

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@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Quote:
How does it follow from the premise that most posters have said that most Americans don't approve of burning the Koran, there isn't a double-standard in how leftist-Liberals do not have a double-standard? What connection is there supposed to be between the premise and the conclusion. Any?

I would think the conclusion is obvious. Since most posters here have said (those considered on the left whether they are or not) that most Americans do not approve of the proposed Quran burning, then we are not attributing all Christians or (republicans/conservatives) with the same sentiments as expressed by the fellow who said he was going to burn the Quran. So there is no double standard for instance we those on the left said it is not fair to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few in the Mosque controversy.

Quote:
All the evidence is that the left tend to excuse not merely the depredations of Muslims, but excuse all non-Caucasians. It is the old "Officer Krupke" syndrome from West Side Story "We're not bad. We're just misunderstood".

There is no evidence except made up by certain segments of the right. The mere fact that the left by and large defend Muslims who are not guilty (or presumed innocent unless evidence proves the contrary) of anything does not mean we excuse wrong doing from Muslims and all non Caucasians if in fact their actions or planned actions or words merit disapproval.

I would think the conclusion is obvious. Since most posters here have said (those considered on the left whether they are or not) that most Americans do not approve of the proposed Quran burning, then we are not attributing all Christians or (republicans/conservatives) with the same sentiments as expressed by the fellow who said he was going to burn the Quran. So there is no double standard for instance we those on the left said it is not fair to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few in the Mosque controversy.

It isn't that the conclusion isn't obvious (or is obvious). It is that I am unable to see how the conclusion follows from the premise. Perhaps it is because your writing is so convoluted that I cannot make out what your premise(s) is. Could you try to clarify your argument so that I can understand what it is (and so you can do the same)?

It is not that the Left defends Muslims who are not guilty. Everyone does that. Rather, the Left refuses to countenance the fact that those Muslims who are directly guilty of murder and mayhem do it in the name of their religion, and relatively few Muslims repudiate this claim, and, moreover, a great many either support the claim or indicate sympathy with the claim. Take, for instance, even that Muslim involved in the building of the controversial mosque in New York City near the 9/11 cite, Feisal Rauf. He is alleged to be a moderate Muslim and opposed to terrorism. But even he has made some very questionable statements about 9/11 indicating some sympathy with that action. For instance, what do you make of the following report?

During an interview on New York WABC radio in June 2010, Rauf declined to say whether he agreed with the U.S. State Department's designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Responding to the question, Rauf said, "Look, I'm not a politician. The issue of terrorism is a very complex question... I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy."

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Quote:

Rauf declined to say whether he agreed with the U.S. State Department's designation of Hamas as a terrorist organization. Responding to the question, Rauf said, "Look, I'm not a politician. The issue of terrorism is a very complex question... I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy."

I think he was very wise to say that, and I am neither a Zionist nor a Hamas supporter. I certainly don't think it undermines his credibility or bona fides one iota.

Only a very biased person indeed would call that "questionable".

Quote:

and relatively few Muslims repudiate [...] a great many either support the claim or indicate sympathy with the claim.

Opinions dressed up as facts.

Kennethamy, there is quite a lot about your posting and discussion style that I just plain do not like. I'm sorry but there it is.

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@findingsolutions,

findingsolutions wrote:

How do you see the burning of Holy Koran by pastor Terry Jones? Do you think he truly represents the values of Christianity of tolerance and respect each other's religion. Is he what America stands for? i.e Embracing nation for all religions, sects, casts and creeds.

I see it as an expression of free speech, expressing legitimate criticism of all the evil things that so many Muslims are doing.

It is certainly no more offensive than the burning of American flags that Muslims around the world do every day, and it is a lot less offensive than the way large numbers of Muslims cheered and gloated over the 9/11 attacks, and now want to build a mosque near the WTC site.

Setting aside the hypocrisy of the fact that many Muslims around the world publicly burn American flags every day, this threat to "go on a global murder spree if this guy exercises his freedom of speech" is little different from the way Muslims around the world reacted when European cartoonists dared to also criticize Islam.

I was sorry that the preacher backed down on the bonfire, but I was gratified that he linked Koran burning to that mosque near the WTC site in the minds of the American people.

I sincerely hope that if that abomination of a mosque ends up being built, lots and lots and lots of Korans get burned on the sidewalk outside.

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@contrex,

contrex wrote:

He is an idiot and a dickhead. He, not Islam, is "of the devil".

This coming from a scumbag who supports putting innocent people in prison.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

I think it is a stunt.

I don't. I think he is using his freedom of speech to express legitimate criticism of the way many Muslims are behaving.

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I see that utter dick Oralloy has showed up. The thread is poisoned. Stand by for around 5000 further trash posts about his idiot opinions.

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@Razzleg,

Razzleg wrote:

It seems to me that the situation shapes up like this: Small-time charismatic preacher, kicked out of the German pentecostal church he set up for being too much of a nut-bag, sets out to make a name for himself with an inflammatory act. The motivations: aside from those already mentioned? To draw national (and possibly international) support to his intolerant agenda, and by uniting its numbers in defense of a central symbolic act, increase a fanatical fringe group's social influence on national (and international) events.

What is intolerant about his agenda? I confess I know nothing about his agenda other than the fact that he speaks out against Islamic aggression.

Razzleg wrote:

In this short interval, he either came upon the idea of finding a political way of equating the building of the mosque a few blocks away from Ground Zero with book-burning, or the idea was fed to him by those of his party or his religion that quietly supported his ridiculous crusade. Now he is trying to hold the American builders of that church ransom, hoping that they are more concerned with the American way of life, and actual American lives, than he is.

I doubt he believes that the mosque builders are concerned with the American way of life.

More likely he hopes that they don't want see big piles of Korans burned outside their mosque every day, and will consider building their mosque in a less offensive location.

Razzleg wrote:

my final answer on the question: "How do you see the burning of Holy Koran by pastor Terry Jones?":

An act of cocksure bravado turned into an act of terrorism.

The commonly accepted definition of terrorism involves targeting civilians.

I missed where this preacher has tried to murder anyone.

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@Razzleg,

Razzleg wrote:

I am a US left-winger in an overwhelmingly "red" state. And while i make my small bid to oppose the right-wing agenda in my own region, and at the same time live amicably in the conservative surroundings in which i find myself--i find hypocrisy to be the most unforgivable sin.

So, I take it you harshly condemn the burning of American flags -- especially by Muslims in other countries?

That is surely just as bad as burning a Koran.

Razzleg wrote:

This whole affair, minus the entirely reasonable desire for a mosque built near Ground Zero, is shameful.

There is nothing even remotely reasonable about building a mosque near the WTC site.

On the other hand, exercising one's freedom of speech rights by peacefully burning a pile of Korans... that is entirely reasonable.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Quote:

I see it as an expression of free speech, expressing legitimate criticism of all the evil things that so many Muslims are doing.

What's your evidence for this nonsense? How many is "so many Muslims?"

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

So, I take it you harshly condemn the burning of American flags -- especially by Muslims in other countries?

That is surely just as bad as burning a Koran.

funny, i usually use a big pile of burning American flags to light my Koran's on fire ( i set the American flags on fire using a rolled up bunch of Canadian flags, which i set on fire using a smouldering bible i keep for just such occasions)

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I see it as an expression of free speech, expressing legitimate criticism of all the evil things that so many Muslims are doing.

What's your evidence for this nonsense?

That is a weird question to ask today, of all days.

cicerone imposter wrote:

How many is "so many Muslims?"

Enough that practically every single day there are news reports of Muslims somewhere on the planet massacring non Muslims and/or desecrating the holy places of other religions and/or splashing acid in the face of children in the name of Islam, etc.

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@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

oralloy wrote:
So, I take it you harshly condemn the burning of American flags -- especially by Muslims in other countries?

That is surely just as bad as burning a Koran.

funny, i usually use a big pile of burning American flags to light my Koran's on fire ( i set the American flags on fire using a rolled up bunch of Canadian flags, which i set on fire using a smouldering bible i keep for just such occasions)

I've never desecrated a flag or a Koran, but I flushed a New Testament once. I can't abide the King James translation.

I defend to the death anyone's right to do any of the above however, even if I've never done it myself.

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How do you see the burning of Holy Koran by pastor Terry Jones

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