Cheating wife

@eoe,

Thank you EOE, I thought that A2k was an anonymous sounding board but I guess I was wrong. Maybe alot of people dislike their parents or their mother.
It is true you have to pay alimony in a no fault divorce state which he is in. I did like my son's wife very much but not now. Sometimes you just never know people. He is being very honest with me and his siblings and although it does take two to tango this was no tango.

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@shewolfnm,

Shewolfnm, Thank you for being kind....

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@timbuktu,

How very interesting.

This is, of course, not about my relationship with my parents, but no matter.

My objection, and perhaps I am far off with this, is that it appeared that you were asking for advice for your son. Who is an adult and, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, perfectly capable of making up his own mind, etc.

Oh and shewolf - it is different - you were asking for your own advice, re your own issues. What gave me pause was the feeling that this was speaking for someone else. The old "I have this friend who has this problem ..." thing. I just, that has always rubbed me the wrong way, as in, why can't people ask their own questions and get their own help? I recognize there is a desire to learn what to say or do around others' problems. I do get that. It did, though, bother me, all of the mentioning of the $$ etc. This should not be of concern when/if a marriage is breaking up (and not all marriages with cheating break up). I do not want to see anyone trying to put their thumb on the scale here. It is the son's relationship, with his wife. There are supposed to be only two people in the marriage.

I jumped to a conclusion, and I apologize. But it appears that mine is not the only conclusion that was jumped to, yes?

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@Khethil,

Khethil wrote:

Fido wrote:
Marriage is just a form, and obviously a form is not enough to save a troubled relationship... In every form, every social form, and every form of relationship it is the relationship which is the life of the form and the form is only a structure for behavior... But like the structures of our bodies, our bones, the forms last long after the life has left the relationship...

Quite true.

As a side note; however, I'd add that what specifically is contained in this form can and should vary from person to person. I realize its hard for people to escape their paradigms on what marriage does or should mean - but I think its the best interests of anyone considering marriage at all that couples consciously realize they can define it to their own likes, dislikes, ideas, restrictions or liberties.

Marriage, to me, is morally neutral across the macro. Whether or not contained in that term/contract are moral dictates is exclusively up to the individuals concerned - no one else can our ought be concerned with how "these two folks" have defined the terms of their marriage. Idealistic? Probably... I think its a healthy view though

Thanks

Absolutely correct... People going in should talk about their expectations, and recognize that the form of the marriage is going to change as they change and circumstances change; but such talk requires that people relate, and relating is incredibly stressful so that most people retreat into form or formula to govern their behavior... I like the line from Shekespear, that if two people ride a horse, some one has to sit in front... Why should it matter who leads the horse, as marriage is, a vehicle of sorts from one point in life to another, if the goal is for both the same???

It makes me wonder why gays want to marry... If they have the love and they have the relatioship then who needs the form, because people too often rest on the form instead of spurring it forward... In informal relationships that is not possible, and the commitment has to be remade every day, and all the time... And it is stressful, and yet, that is where our lives are lived, in the moment...

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@timbuktu,

timbuktu wrote:

BTW My son is not rich, just hard working and trying to provide a good life for his family.

Is he kosher??? Is he orthodox??? Is she a Jap??? It is amazing how often people are clearly unfaithful because they have no other way to end the relationship with finality... And then some only test the love because they have no ability to trust it....Will he or she forgive me??? Maybe she just wants a spanking...

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@Fido,

Quote:

It makes me wonder why gays want to marry... If they have the love and they have the relatioship then who needs the form,

Because, laws in effect within most states today, gay couples would be prohibited from enjoying many of the benefits under the phrase "Rights of Survivorship", which would include such things as continuation of insurances, or pensions, or even decreases in tax grants and "grabs"

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@shewolfnm,

shewolfnm wrote:

If he does choose to divorce, it is in his favor to FILE first.
FILE first FILE first FILE first.
he can have more control over the situation by doing that.

The second liar never has a chance...

And I mean it... When relationships fail it is because both people fail the relationship, and all the pointing of fingers is retarded...Marriage is not just a form, but is the relationship, and people have to keep engaged, talk, houseclean, deal with their issues, resentments and pains, that they grow or bring into the marriage... Its tough... Relating is tough, difficult, stressful, and painful and most people would rather hide in their forms and say: You Promised...

Screw your promise... Relationships are hour to hour, day to day, immediate... They are not about yesterday, but tomorrow, physical and psychic survival, and if you are not engaged then you are in impediment... No one risks a relationship that is working... If some one is looking for love in the wrong place, then the right place is closed to them... Mr. Man was either married to the wrong woman, or he was not taking care of business.... Love is not an adventure, and not a job; but is life itself... Will you not give all to have all??? Or do you want to buy your life on the cheap???

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:

It makes me wonder why gays want to marry... If they have the love and they have the relatioship then who needs the form,
Because, laws in effect within most states today, gay couples would be prohibited from enjoying many of the benefits under the phrase "Rights of Survivorship", which would include such things as continuation of insurances, or pensions, or even decreases in tax grants and "grabs"

But those things are designed by married couples to protect the interests of children which is the contribution of merit that marriages give to society...I have some in my family who are too busy being children to be parents when there are plenty who need parents, and I would agree that many gays could make good parents because they know how to love, but raising children, which no society can live without is a difficult, demanding, thankless chore, and one where the rights of survivors need protection... If you are just single, with no children, then get off your ass and get back to work and quit riding the dead...People can gift their property while alive, of leave it by will... They do not need marriage, and they do not need the family rate at the zoo... Two people no matter how long married are not a family, but a couple...

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@Fido,

Those things are designed to protect the rights of the surviving spouse. Sometimes that includes children, but often it does not. Homosexual couples often have children, so even if it was for children, it would equally apply. Plus this argument cuts both ways. If homosexuals "have the love and they have the relationship" so they don't need the form, doesn't that imply the exact same to heterosexuals?

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and this is why I will never marry again Smile

If a relationship works , it will work with out all the legal mumbo-jumbo. Seriously. I dont need to be legally bound to someone to prove I love them. Sharing my life with them and sharing their life will be enough

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@timbuktu,

Caring is one thing - discussing what HE should do here is quite another. YOUR concern as his mother is not what he decides to do, but how you can be supportive and a good mother to him through this.

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@Fido,

Everyone needs love, compassion and understanding from loved ones through crap like this.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Everyone needs love, compassion and understanding from loved ones through crap like this.

The whole idea of her judgements against daughter in law, and his crying to mama hands me a gag... When are boys going to grow up??? Never, me included... We just grow old without gathering the finer points of maturity...

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@Fido,

I think you may have read some stuff into her post. Her son didn't come off as a whiner to me. She just knew the facts surrounding the marital problems. Both of my kids gave me general reasons why their marriages ended...and it wasn't whining or even trying to assassinate their spouse. It's normal to tell those you love what led to your divorce.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I think you may have read some stuff into her post. Her son didn't come off as a whiner to me. She just knew the facts surrounding the marital problems. Both of my kids gave me general reasons why their marriages ended...and it wasn't whining or even trying to assassinate their spouse. It's normal to tell those you love what led to your divorce.

You marry the girl you marry, or does better or worse mean nothing??? If he was busy marrying some stranger, investing his trust in her, having children with her, and he was a terrible judge of character; then whose fault is that???
Calling her lazy, for example... Conclusion on the mother's part or on the part of boy child??? Who is calling who lazy, because maybe she was a princes and raised to be lazy... Maybe she is no more lazy than mom... Maybe she likes to spend her days in less productive and more interesting employment, and if she can afford to then where is the lazy...Maybe she is a total slug, but who married her to then judge her...I have been some of the places mentioned and they are not cheap... If she has money perhaps she does not want to be seen as plebian, but as a patrician...

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@Fido,

Well, I don't think this is important enough for multiple question marks. Smile

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Well, I don't think this is important enough for multiple question marks.

Sorry... A bad habit picked up on another site offering political opinions. They sort of ran everything together, and could not indent, or multiple space, or a second paragraph... Forgive me..

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@Fido,

(smiling) That was my way of saying, dear one, that the issue we were discussing didn't merit legitimate upset for either of us. Go (or stay) in peace. Cool

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In any case, the woman deserved an answer, not harsh judgment on the question.

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@PUNKEY,

PUNKEY wrote:

In any case, the woman deserved an answer, not harsh judgment on the question.

Every failed relationship has two people who have failed in it, unless from the start the form was only one of abuse... Let me give you an example... I am a retired ironworker, which is a difficult and demanding job... It attracts people with issues, dare devils, idiots, and lost causes, and makes them worse... Some people think it a glamourous job, like being a cowboy, or a sailor; but to do it well one must do it as a job, be there, and give all... Years ago, a friend was telling me about a period in his life when his wife and he were going to mariage counceling, and the psychologist told him: I have had a few ironworkers in here for counceling, and from my experience, ironworkers do not form relationships, but take hostages... And it has stuck with me, and I have had marriage counceling and I needed it because I am terrible at relationships even when trying to be better, so it is easy to see what is wrong with others in their relationships, not to judge them, but to recognize that most of the mistakes people make are quite common... Ironworkers, for example, like many people, often recognize that they are victims, and every time they work through a back breaking pain they realize their life is all being bent over a rock and f ucked... And instead of sucking it up and realizing that is part of the sacrifice all people make for their relationhips, to have their relationships they instead want to reverse the situation with others to be the effers instead of the effee... Such relationships if they can be called relationships never have a chance, but for one reason or another many relationships never have a chance and should never have begun and should end...

It does not help the relationship in question that mother in law is judgmental... It is possible daughter in law always felt isolated and alone, and married or not, everybody needs love, whether or not they are capable of holding up their end of a love relationship...

So I would ask... What does the guy do... How much of his life does he spend doing it... And I would say, just as a woman does not like being poked with a stick all night, neither does she want to be alone with, or without a child, and a single man can tell when a woman is not getting enough love by her far away eyes .... It is hard to find that balance between job and relationship... At some point one has to ask what sacrifice is worth it for the relationship if the relationship is destroyed in the process of making the sacrifice.

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