8
   

Gun permit allows quick access to Texas Capitol

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 05:37 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Maybe ya oughta come in from the sun DAve.
Youre becoming extreme in your epithets.
How close were you to that guy who killed 8 people yesterday?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:15 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Maybe ya oughta come in from the sun DAve.
I do not expose myself to the sun.
Thanx for your concern.
(I once had a secretary who asked if I were a vampire.)


farmerman wrote:
Youre becoming extreme in your epithets.
I 'll stand by what I said.


farmerman wrote:
How close were you to that guy who killed 8 people yesterday?
He 's not a pal.
I 'd have suggested that he commit suicide BEFORE killing the others,
(thereby conserving ammunition) but I was not consulted.

He just shoud have adjusted his priorities.





David
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
No. The "Standard Model" was adopted by the USSC and reaffirmed in June.
Approximately 100% of law professors (including liberals)
agreed that the 2A was to defend individual rights
and all 9 Justices of the USSC found that to be the case 9 to O.


Actually you are wrong, not all of justices concurred with the Courts decision. Stevens, BREYER, GINSBURG and SOTOMAYOR had dissenting opinion. Their opinions start from page 123 from the following link:



link
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 06:47 am
@revelette,
Quote:
No. The "Standard Model" was adopted by the USSC and reaffirmed in June.
Approximately 100% of law professors (including liberals)
agreed that the 2A was to defend individual rights
and all 9 Justices of the USSC found that to be the case 9 to O.
revelette wrote:
Actually you are wrong, not all of justices concurred with the Courts decision.
Stevens, BREYER, GINSBURG and SOTOMAYOR had dissenting opinion.
That is NOT what we r talking about. As I said, ALL of the justices,
9 to O found that the 2A defends an Individual right.
Thay rejected the "collective right" nonsense.

Their dissents did NOT include what u allege.

If u DENY that, then show where ANY of them
supported any "collective right" foolishness.





David
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:01 am
@mysteryman,
Just because gun toting is "the law of the land," doesn't mean that it is necessary, smart or anything other than a sign of paranoia or a substitute for a lack of manhood.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:02 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Government was created subject to the condition
that it have NO JURISDICTION of personal possession of guns.
Government continues to have no such jurisdiction.

If u wanna fight for victim helplessness and criminal domination,
then amend the Constitution, by fighting it out legitimately,
as per Article 5 (i.e., 2/3 of each house of Congress and ratification by 3/4 of all of the States).


Wow, david! That made no sense at all.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:04 am
@oralloy,
Orally, you might have noticed that I may never have responded to you. I do not have you on ignore. I have simply not responded. This is largely because you exhibit signs of insanity that renders your statements without content.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:05 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Right, every woman and child that was shot by a nutso husband and father was a freedom hater. Aren't we all glad they were blown away?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Freedom haters nazis have lost; Freedom lovers won.
Freedom haters commies have lost; Freedom lovers won.
Freedom haters gun controllers have lost; Freedom lovers won.


I haven't read a post from you that denigrates people in the counseling business as I have read from gunga. After reading this, I strongly suggest you talk to someone about your obsession.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:16 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Perhaps you should read the dissents before making such a statement David.

JUSTICE STEVENS, with whom JUSTICE SOUTER, JUSTICE
GINSBURG, and JUSTICE BREYER join, dissenting.
Quote:
The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the
right of the people of each of the several States to maintain
a well-regulated militia. ...

Madison’s decision to model the Second Amendment on
the distinctly military Virginia proposal is therefore revealing,
since it is clear that he considered and rejected
formulations that would have unambiguously protected
civilian uses of firearms.
....
The history of the adoption of the Amendment thus
describes an overriding concern about the potential threat
to state sovereignty that a federal standing army would pose, and a desire to protect the States’ militias as the
means by which to guard against that danger. But state
militias could not effectively check the prospect of a federal
standing army so long as Congress retained the power
to disarm them, and so a guarantee against such disarmament
was needed.27
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:21 am
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Government was created subject to the condition
that it have NO JURISDICTION of personal possession of guns.
Government continues to have no such jurisdiction.

If u wanna fight for victim helplessness and criminal domination,
then amend the Constitution, by fighting it out legitimately,
as per Article 5 (i.e., 2/3 of each house of Congress and ratification by 3/4 of all of the States).
plainoldme wrote:
Wow, david! That made no sense at all.
I assumed that u knew the applicable American history; guess not. I don 't feel like writing it out, at the moment.

Secondly, the point was that your efforts are evil in that u oppose
the chances of the victim to WIN in a confrontation of predatory violence. Every predatory event is a contest of power.
The victim NEEDS to have more power than the predator, in order to survive.

I support the innocent victims; I want them to be armed with more power that the predators.
U gun controllers support the bad guys; very simple, Prof. Plain.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:28 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Perhaps you should read the dissents before making such a statement David.

JUSTICE STEVENS, with whom JUSTICE SOUTER, JUSTICE
GINSBURG, and JUSTICE BREYER join, dissenting.
Quote:
The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the
right of the people of each of the several States to maintain
a well-regulated militia. ... [ Well regulated militia was a term of art, meaning a private militia, as distinct from a "selected militia" who were government guys. ]
Madison’s decision to model the Second Amendment on
the distinctly military Virginia proposal is therefore revealing,
since it is clear that he considered and rejected
formulations that would have unambiguously protected
civilian uses of firearms.
....
The history of the adoption of the Amendment thus
describes an overriding concern about the potential threat
to state sovereignty that a federal standing army would pose, and a desire to protect the States’ militias as the
means by which to guard against that danger. But state
militias could not effectively check the prospect of a federal
standing army so long as Congress retained the power
to disarm them, and so a guarantee against such disarmament
was needed.27

The leftists urged the USSC to adopt the concept of
a "collective right" much touted by the left for several decades;
none of the justices accepted that reasoning; I re-iterate what I said.





David
revelette
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 07:43 am
Quote:
OTIS MCDONALD, ET AL., PETITIONERS v. CITY OF
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS, ET AL.
ON WRIT OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF
APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
[June 28, 2010]
JUSTICE BREYER, with whom JUSTICE GINSBURG and JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR join, dissenting.
In my view, JUSTICE STEVENS has demonstrated that the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of “substantivedue process” does not include a general right to keep and bear firearms for purposes of private self-defense. As he argues, the Framers did not write the Second Amendment with this objective in view. See ante, at 41–44 (dissentingopinion). Unlike other forms of substantive liberty, the carrying of arms for that purpose often puts others’ livesat risk. See ante, at 35–37. And the use of arms for pri-vate self-defense does not warrant federal constitutional protection from state regulation. See ante, at 44–51.
The Court, however, does not expressly rest its opinionupon “substantive due process” concerns. Rather, it di-rects its attention to this Court’s “incorporation” prece-dents and asks whether the Second Amendment right to private self-defense is “fundamental” so that it applies to the States through the Fourteenth Amendment. See ante, at 11–19.
I shall therefore separately consider the question of “incorporation.” I can find nothing in the Second Amend-ment’s text, history, or underlying rationale that couldwarrant characterizing it as “fundamental” insofar as itseeks to protect the keeping and bearing of arms for pri-
2 MCDONALD v. CHICAGO
BREYER, J., dissenting
vate self-defense purposes. Nor can I find any justification for interpreting the Constitution as transferring ultimate regulatory authority over the private uses of firearms fromdemocratically elected legislatures to courts or from theStates to the Federal Government. I therefore conclude that the Fourteenth Amendment does not “incorporate”the Second Amendment’s right “to keep and bear Arms.” And I consequently dissent.

OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 08:12 am
@revelette,
Again, I re-iterate that the old allegation of a "collective right"
of the 2nd Amendment was ABANDONED, with not even 1 of them advocating it.





David
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I love your use of large red letters to insert your meaning into the ruling David while claiming the judges didn't mean what THEY said versus what YOU are saying.

Let me post you the paragraph from Stevens..
Quote:
The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the right of the people of each of the several States to maintain a well-regulated militia. It was a response to concerns raised during the ratification of the Constitution that the power of Congress to disarm the state militias and create a national standing army posed an intolerable threat to the sovereignty of the several States. Neither the text of the Amendment nor the arguments advanced by its proponents evidenced the slightest interest in limiting any legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms. Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution.


The only 'term of art" is you attempting to insert meaning where there clearly is NONE, David. You should be ashamed of such an obvious attempt to ignore meanings and insert your own biases into something that is quite clear.

Stevens was talking about state militias not private militias.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 11:08 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quick question for you David.

Do you think the court decided it was a collective right when they decided Miller?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 12:01 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

I love your use of large red letters to insert your meaning into the ruling David while claiming the judges didn't mean what THEY said versus what YOU are saying.

Let me post you the paragraph from Stevens..
Quote:
The Second Amendment was adopted to protect the right of the people of each of the several States to maintain a well-regulated militia. It was a response to concerns raised during the ratification of the Constitution that the power of Congress to disarm the state militias and create a national standing army posed an intolerable threat to the sovereignty of the several States. Neither the text of the Amendment nor the arguments advanced by its proponents evidenced the slightest interest in limiting any legislature’s authority to regulate private civilian uses of firearms. Specifically, there is no indication that the Framers of the Amendment intended to enshrine the common-law right of self-defense in the Constitution.


The only 'term of art" is you attempting to insert meaning where there clearly is NONE, David. You should be ashamed of such an obvious attempt to ignore meanings and insert your own biases into something that is quite clear.

Stevens was talking about state militias not private militias.
I am bringing out the point that for maybe the last 60 years before HELLER, the repressionists
have been arguing that the 2nd Amendment did not defend an Individual right,
only an alleged "collective right".
Thay were very redundant on that alleged point.

Not a single justice spoke up for it in HELLER nor in McDONALD.

I don 't expect to hear much more repetition of that allegation.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 12:08 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quick question for you David.

Do you think the court decided it was a collective right when they decided Miller?
It did not do so.
It only remanded the case on a point of evidence,
to wit, that the trial court shoud have taken testimony (instead of taking judicial notice)
as to whether the "instrument" in question were a functional weapon,
able to assist a militia, in its mutilated condition (short barrel).
The 2nd Amendment protects possession of WEAPONS, not of useless junk.





David
parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 12:58 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
So, now you are saying the weapons should only be ones used by a militia?

You have lost me here David. Did Miller refer to weapons suitable for use by the military and therefor suitable for a militia? Do you think banning weapons based on their military usage is calling it an individual right?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 02:17 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
So, now you are saying the weapons should only be ones used by a militia?
It is a reasonable inference to say that possession of those weapons (useful in service to militia)
are the ones immunized from government interference, inasmuch as the amendment
says that because private militia ("well regulated militia") are necessary
to the security of a free state (meaning its citizens, not its government)
the right to keep and bear such weapons shall not be infringed.
For instance, I have witnessed a chair being used as a weapon.
Possession of chairs is not immunized by the 2nd Amendment.

Bear in mind: in the 1700s, there were NO police in the USA, nor in England.
Self defense was a very individual matter and your life depended on it.
It was a criminal offense, subject to a fine, if u failed to follow
the hue and cry; that means that if one of your nabors called out
in distress that his sheep had been stolen, u were legally obligated
to join him and others in chasing down the perpetrator, armed with your own weapons.
U were also duty bound to show up for militia duty with your own
guns and ammunition, at your own expense, at designated times.
This was a serious matter, because sometimes thay had to fight for their lives.





parados wrote:
You have lost me here David.
OK; we 'll straighten it out.



parados wrote:
Did Miller refer to weapons suitable for use by the military and therefor suitable for a militia?
Yes; as to what arms the people have rights to keep and bear,
the US Supreme Court said in US v. MILLER 3O7 US 174 (1939)
that they should be "ordinary military equipment ... AYMETTE v. STATE
2 Hump. [21 Tenn] 154, 158."

The AYMETTE case, which the Supreme Court approvingly adopted declares:
"the arms, the right to keep which is secured,
are such as are usually employed in civilized warfare, and that
constitute ordinary military equipment.
If the citizens have these arms in their hands, they are prepared
in the best possible manner to repel any encroachments on their rights."
[All emphasis has been added by David.]






parados wrote:
Do you think banning weapons based on their military usage is calling it an individual right?
Yes; it immunized from interference a citizen's personal possession
of anti-personnel weapons, such as are of value to militia.

Don 't lose sight of the 1700s context of not only no telephones for 911,
but also no existing police in the USA (nor in England) until the next century.

Each citizen was his own de facto police force.
With luck, u might be able to rouse some help from nabors; maybe.
(Neither Kitty Genovese in NY nor Reginald Denny in L.A. were that lucky.
Thay both suffered permanent personal injuries.)
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 11/15/2024 at 05:29:31