Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

I really think you should educate yourself regarding the history of sexual mores, and gender roles, at least within the past century, because you will find that what I am saying is true--and I did post references. Men exercised more self control in the past when it came to sexual contacts with women in social situations. Men still have that same capacity to exercise self control in those same situations. If anything, single men have more opportunities now for sexual contacts with women then they ever had before, so there is no "biological" need for any women to be forced or coerced into having unwanted sex in social situations by a man. We should be having no date rapes.

Women are not going to give up their right to vote, or even their right to enjoy sexual freedom, in order to be protected from being raped. They have a perfect right to insist that sexual contact must always be consensual, without turning back the clock in any way. And that is exactly what the rape laws say.

You keep bringing up the hypothetical example of women changing their minds afterward about consent. If a woman freely and knowingly and intelligently gives consent (which is how the Florida law defines it), but then regrets her choice afterward, that is not rape. And I never said I considered such a situation rape. There is no point belaboring such situations, they are not rape. Most women who freely, knowingly, and intelligently, consent to a sexual act generally have little reason to even regret it. Your examples of the women who do have regrets, usually involve a female who really wasn't in shape to give legal consent in the first place because they were too drunk. In those cases, there really was no legal consent, and the woman might realize that after the fact. The man should have been aware of the lack of legal consent before engaging in the act. Men are not stupid. They know when a woman is drunk, particularly when they have been with her and know how much she has had to drink. Women who are not impaired, and who freely, knowingly and intelligently consent to a sex act are not rape victims.

the Feminists claim the number is 2%, but dont bother asking them to back this number up. 40%?? That I assume is both the completely fictitious claims as will as cases where consent is too muddled to make a determination of rape...the feminists are working on that problem though, by making all cases where the woman is above .08 blood alcohol level rape, that will streamline the road to jail for men nicely.

Nonsense they have many hours of training for traffic officers to made that judgment in relationship to driving and they give them tools such as breath testing machines to aid them and yet from time to time judges and juries had ended up disagreeing that the person was too drunk to drive. All this with a hard standard of .08 blood level beside for them to refer to.

So you wish to place the burden on an untrained male who had likely been drinking himself to made that judgment call with his whole future on the line with no hard standards to go by either.

That is insane in every you can look at it.

No , just has they have successfully made the exercise of power in sexuality a crime they now want to make the combining of alcohol and sex a criminal matter. Before these nuts are going to claim success and be done they will have "proper" sex back to what the puritans called "Godfull" sex. The puritans however only made bad sex a crime before God, they did not lock people up for it. What the feminists want to do is worse.

Hawkeye you did not see the study I posted dealing with a police department of a mid-size city over a five year period of time where they used lied detectors on interviewing the rape victims and the accuse. Only then declaring a charge false after the woman had admitted that the charge was false and done so also only after being told to declare the charge false mean that they are admitting to a criminal act themselves.

It was 40 percent of the total numbers of cases over the five years period.

I beg your pardon but this man proved to a lot of things that wasn't appropriate, It was a working environment and hardly appropriate behaviour, infact it took the piss. Of course I don't see men staring at my crotch a compliment to the point it made me feel uncomfortable, what do you think I am? Looking at me in such a lustful sexual way shows lack of respect for me and lack of control over what is not just polite nor welcome! What on earth makes you believe intelligent women find this acceptable let alone a compliment, are you for real? How about he did it to your wife or daughter or sister, is that acceptable behaviour or shows decency and respect to the fairer sex, man you have no idea about women, we are not all sexual beings just for your pleasure, there is a line and he crossed it and I have no idea why you think there is nothing wrong his behaviour, he made other women in the office feel uncomfortable too.

No Hawkeye, he was an abuser of women by subjecting them to his sexual lust, compliment? Give me a chuffin break! This man would lust at womens bodies all the time and that is just dangerous, dangerous to women because he subjects them to his sexual lusts whether they like it or not, giving them no choice making them feel uncomfortable, man I can't tell you how bad he made me feel and you think we should take it as a chuffin compliment, why? He crossed a line and your ignorance is why I left instead of him, no understanding, listen to women and try to understand their views, you might be a bit empathetic to their plight like a mature adult male but don't tell me to accept it as an effin compliment, we are not here for mans sexual desires.

He might of stood a chance if he looked into my brain instead of at my crotch, his loss. You have serious screwed up views of what women find uncomfortable and a compliment, why on earth do you think that it's a compliment, jeez I cant believe it. Sorry if I took offense but it all sounds so man orientated doesn't it, I should accept it as a compliment, get off it doesn't wash with me, you have no understanding of women and their real value, sad. Just what women need, another person who don't give a **** about real women, that's just pathetic and if your going to rip into me because you don't like what you hear and be a child make sure you can back it up coz I'll pull you up on it so don't be a child, shut up and listen for once.

I saw you gave firefly a hard time, you don't even debate properly so don't waste my time unless you got something worth giving to the plight of womans rights which is what this thread is all about, try listening to one if you want to truly understand instead of putting her down because it's us who get raped, not you, the majority of violent sexual crime is against women and children and this thread, what I can gather is in part about protecting womens rights regarding rape and date rape laws, one that you should take seriously too, you have mothers, daughters, sisters, you all have women in your life so you should take it bloody seriously, so maybe you should be listening instead of talking and putting down firefly calling her a manhater, that's a bit strong isn't it? From what she's told me she's interested in the rights of woman concerning date rape, are you listening to her because she did not once say she hated men, man don't turn it around and try putting it on her or it's my fault for not accepting it as a compliment, man grow a set and stand up for your woman because she needs your support, don't be a jerk, I don't like jerks and I eat em for breakfast!

That's because you disagree with the laws, even in your state of Florida, which define consent quite clearly. An intoxicated woman can't give legal consent. Alcohol impairs cognitive abilities. Consent must be conscious, knowing and intelligent in Florida. Alcohol affects reasoning ability, awareness, judgment, etc. all of which are part of "intelligent" "knowing" consent.

You aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with current law.



No one gets 20 years for a date rape based solely on he said/she said testimony, with no other supporting evidence. Practically none of those cases ever get to trial. Even where the woman is believed in a date rape situation, where no physical force was used, and a jury convicts, the maximum sentence for the man would be less than four years. If a woman knowingly lies about her rape accusation, and a man is convicted on the basis of that accusation, she is guilty of a felony. He will be released from prison, and she will go to prison.

Because some women, and probably very few, deliberately make false accusations, does not mean that no women should be believed. You confuse false accusations which are made deliberately, with honest misidentification's, and police mishandling of cases, because the "false allegation" literature tends to lump them all together. You have done this repeatedly. There is no point rehashing this over and over. Men lie all the time when they claim a sex act was consensual and it wasn't.
Stop regurgitating the same "male victimization" issues, over and over. Start your own thread to discuss those. They aren't really germane to the topic of this thread and we have covered them repeatedly.

Sorry you are not a lawyer and voluntary intoxication had never been allow as an out under the legal system in any regards.

Dont bother firefly they are not worth the effort, I have a feeling your wasting your time, this thread has clearly attracted men who think it's the womans fault now I know where you're coming from! Wait for some real men to come in, ignore these losers.

Give me one case in the whole legal history of the US where a woman had gone to prison in such a situation.

Just one little case...................

You mean I need to go back and dig up that 5 years study once more and post it one more? We are not talking about honest errors we are talking about outright lying.

Bill women do make false claims of rape we know but that shouldn't stop you looking at real cases of rape.

Oh why did I get involved. I couldn't help myself I'm a woman and have a vested interest in their rights, a responsibility to ALL that should not be overlooked because this woman lied about rape and that women did this, stop deferring from the real issues or do you just not give a toss.

When one police department used a lie detector to screen rape complains over a five years period 41 percents of the complains was found to be invalid and the women ended up admitting to filing of false charges

Below are some of the reasons the women gave for filing false rapes charges.

The study of these 45 cases of false rape allegations inexorably led to the conclusion that these false charges were able to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, a means of gaining revenge, and a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. This tripartite model resulted from the complainants' own verbalizations during recantation and does not constitute conjecture. Of course, we are not asserting that these functions are mutually exclusive or exhaustive; rather, these rape recantations focused on a single factor explanation. A possible objection to these recantations concerns their validity. Rape recantations could be the result of the complainants' desire to avoid a "second assault" at the hands of the police. Rather than proceed with the real charge of rape, the argument goes, these women withdrew their accusations to avoid the trauma of police investigation.
Several responses are possible to this type of criticism. First, with very few exceptions, these complainants were suspect at the time of the complaint or within a day or two after charging. These recantations did not follow prolonged periods of investigation and interrogation that would constitute anything approximating a second assault. Second, not one of the detectives believed that an incident of false recantation had occurred. They argued, rather convincingly, that in those cases where a suspect was identified and interrogated, the facts of the recantation dovetailed with the suspect's own defense. Last, the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation. Although we certainly do not deny the possibility of false recantations, no evidence supports such an interpretation for these cases. Alibi Function
Of the 45 cases of false charges, over one-half (56%, n = 27) served the complainants' need to provide a plausible explanation for some suddenly foreseen, unfortunate consequence of a consensual encounter, usually sexual, with a male acquaintance. An assailant is identified in approximately one half of these cases. Representative cases include the following:
An unmarried 16-year-old female had sex with her boyfriend and later became concerned that she might be pregnant. She said she had been raped by an unknown assailant in the hopes that the hospital would give her something to abort the possible pregnancy.
A married 30-year-old female reported that she had been raped in her apartment complex. During the polygraph examination, she admitted that she was a willing partner. She reported that she had been raped because her partner did not stop before ejaculation, as he had agreed, and she was afraid she was pregnant. Her husband is overseas.
The above cases are prototypical cases where the fear of pregnancy is paramount in motivating the rape charge. This theme is constant, only the scenario changes in that the lover is black, the husband is out of state on a job, the husband had a vasectomy, the condom broke. Only three cases deviated from this tradition:
A divorced female, 25 years of age, whose parents have custody of her 4-year-old child. She lost custody at the time of her divorce when she was declared an unfit mother. She was out with a male friend and got into a fight. He blackened her eye and cut her lip. She claimed she was raped and beaten by him so that she could explain her injuries. She did not want to admit she was in a drunken brawl, as this admission would have jeopardized her upcoming custody hearing. A 16-year-old complainant, her girlfriend, and two male companions were having a drinking party at her home. She openly invited one of the males, a casual friend, to have sex with her. Later in the evening, two other male acquaintances dropped in and, in the presence of all, her sex partner "bragged" that he had just had sex with her. She quickly ran out to another girlfriend's house and told her she had been raped. Soon, her mother was called and the police were notified. Two days later, when confronted with the contradictory stories of her companions, she admitted that she had not been raped. Her charge of rape was primarily motivated by an urgent desire to defuse what surely would be public information among her friends at school the next day, her promiscuity. A 37-year-old woman reported having been raped "by some nigger." She gave conflicting reports of the incident on two occasions and, when confronted with these, she admitted that the entire story was a fabrication. She feared her boyfriend had given her "some sexual disease," and she wanted to be sent to the hospital to "get checked out." She wanted a respectable reason, i.e., as an innocent victim of rape, to explain the acquisition of her infection.
Revenge
Essentially, this category involved a false rape report as a means of retaliating against a rejecting male. Twenty-seven percent (n = 12) of the cases clearly seemed to serve this function. These rejections, however, ranged from the very evident cases of women who were sexually and emotionally involved with a reciprocating male to those women who saw themselves spurned from what was in reality the females' unilateral involvement. Regardless, these women responded with a false rape charge to perceived rejections. Because the suspect is always identified, the false allegations potentially pose the greatest danger for a miscarriage of justice. Examples of these types of cases are as follows: An 18-year-old woman was having sex with a boarder in her mother's house for a period of 3 months. When the mother learned of her behavior from other boarders, the mother ordered the man to leave. The complainant learned that her lover was packing and she went to his room and told him she would be ready to leave with him in an hour. He responded with "who the hell wants you." She briefly argued with him and then proceeded to the police station to report that he had raped her. She admitted the false charge during the polygraph examination. A 17-year-old female came to headquarters and said that she had been raped by a house parent in the group home in which she lived. A female house parent accompanied her to the station and told the police she did not believe that a rape had occurred. The complainant failed the polygraph examination and then admitted that she liked the house parent, and when he refused her advances, she reported the rape to "get even with him."
A 16-year-old reported she was raped, and her boyfriend was charged. She later admitted that she was "mad at him" because he was seeing another girl, and she "wanted to get him into trouble."
Attention/Sympathy-Getting Device
Although this device seems to be the most extravagant use for which a false rape charge is made, it is also the most socially harmless in that no one was identified as the rapist. Approximately 18% (n = 8) of the false charges clearly served this function. The entire verbalization of the charge is, by and large, a fabrication without base. The following are typical examples:
An unmarried female, age 17, abruptly left her girlfriends in the park one afternoon allegedly to go riding with a young man, a stranger she met earlier that morning who wanted her to smoke marijuana with him. Later that day, she told her friends she was raped by this man. Her friends reported the incident to the police, and the alleged victim went along with the rape charge because "I didn't want them to know that I lied to them." She explained that she manufactured this story because she wanted the attention.
An unmarried female, age 17, had been having violent quarrels with her mother who was critical of her laziness and style of life. She reported that she was raped so that her mother would "get off my back and give me a little sympathy." An unmarried female, age 41, was in postdivorce counseling, and she wanted more attention and sympathy from her counselor because she "liked him." She fabricated a rape episode, and he took her to the police station and assisted her in making the charge. She could not back out since she would have to admit lying to him. She admitted the false allegation when she was offered to be polygraphed.
RELATED FINDINGS
In addition to the foregoing, certain other findings and observations relevant to false allegations warrant comment. First, false allegations failed to include accusations of forced sexual acts other than penile-vaginal intercourse. Not one complainant mentions forced oral or anal sex. In contrast, these acts were included in approximately 25% of the founded forcible rape complaints. Perhaps it was simply psychologically and socially more prudent for these women to minimize the humiliation of sexual victimization by not embroidering the event any more than necessary. This phenomenon has been observed previously (McDowell and Hibler, 1987).




1 Reply
Previous • Post: # 4,309,039 • NextBillRM

-1 ReplyeditDeletereportSat 7 Aug, 2010 11:01 am Some more information from the same study

THe feminists successfully pressured to keep science off of the question for a long time, so only recently have we gotten results of investigation. There are a lot of numbers floating around but yours seems high. What I have seen ranges from the high teens to the low 30's for outright false reports. I would like to see this number nailed down. One thing to keep in mind too is that criminalizing false reports is new, this is one success that men's rights groups have had...what we need is the number that indicates the extent of the problem now, after women have been warned that trying to hang men could end up hanging them instead.

For your information I did try to deal with it but my male boss was just as ignorant and patronizing as you were, deal with it but don't take your anger out on me, play the victim don't be so bloody patronizing and effin ignorant, give me a break please.

And once more I never said that rape charges should not be look at!!!

All I had been saying with such a proven by scientific studies ratio of false to true charges you need some hard evidence beyond a woman word over the matter to go forward very far in the justice system.

We are talking about taking away a man freedom for decades in a situation where false charges almost equal true charges of rape.

It made the police screenings of such cases a real challenge indeed.

The real rape of women is not the only issue, so is how sex law influences the power structure of relationships, so is innocents getting tangled up in the law and thus being deprived of at least their wealth but also sometimes their liberty as well, so is the process of the society defining proper sex. We are all a part of this, we all have rights and responsibilities that can not be allowed to be run over by rape victims and women who are afraid of men demanding to make the rules conform to what makes them most comfortable no matter the expense to everyone else.

I can well see why you want to demand that we focus only on protecting rape victims, but you should understand why I insist that we don't do that.

FF - I think you've done and said everything that can be said here.

The question "Can a woman ask to get raped" is a simple one. We know the answer. No, she cannot.

Hawkeye and Bill are rape denialists. They think the answer is otherwise, or at least can't accept that the answer is this simple. They aren't looking to assist in any sort of way to lessen the crime of rape, they want to play down the entire threat itself by creating some sort of con-artist boogey-woman that is lurking for poor guys to extort.

A
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I really cant get any points you're trying to make from your post, like firefly said if they made tough laws for those who lie about rape then we could get on with the real issues which is womens right concerning date rape laws, yes? Not sure what you're on about though but then that's no surprise to me.