@Caroline,
Caroline, since you may not have read a great deal of this thread, you likely do not know, although you may have guessed, that both BillRM and Hawkeye, who are also posting here, are rape apologists.
BillRM feels women cannot be believed when they claim to be raped, because some women make false accusations. So, therefore, if the woman isn't severely battered and bruised, to prove the rape involved extreme force and her active physical resistance, her claim of being raped must be regarded as being very suspect, because some women have been known to lie. He also feels that any women who isn't too drunk to manage to stand and talk is legally sober enough to give consent, and so sex with a very intoxicated woman is not rape in his view, despite the fact that it is rape under the law.
Hawkeye finds the sex laws, including the rape laws, the doing of feminists who are only interested in exercising power over men. He wants these laws altered so that men can regain their power in sexual contacts with women (presumably by negating the woman's right to refuse unwanted sexual intercourse). Hawkeye has said quite openly he views women as sexual "conquests" and that the "conquest" aspect is the best part of sex. He denies that women are victimized by men sexually, except in what he considers "real rape" situations (when a stranger with a gun or knife grabs a woman he does not know and assaults and rapes her), and he defines all other unwanted sexual contact as "intimate relationships", rather than rape situations, and he feels the government should not define rape or punish it in such situations.
And both BillRM and Hawkeye have called every woman posting in this thread, who supports rape laws, a "man hater", despite the fact that none of the females have thus far expressed negative attitudes toward men. They confuse negative attitudes toward rapists with negative attitudes toward all men. On the other hand, both BillRM and Hawkeye have expressed very negative attitudes toward women, and have been personally insulting to the women posting in this thread.
You make an excellent point about binge drinking. It is a separate health problem, but one which does substantially contribute to the problem of date rape. Women should make an effort to control their drinking, as should men, because it can lead to reckless behaviors and unwanted consequences. Women must always be aware of the safety issue because we are vulnerable to physical and sexual assaults, and intoxicated women can't protect themselves very well.
But, drunken behavior does not excuse rape. A drunken woman is not "asking to be raped". Drunkenness does not mean consent. A very intoxicated woman cannot legally give consent. Just being drunk is not a crime. A man is legally responsible for his actions whether he is drunk or sober. If he drinks and drives he is guilty of drunken driving. If he pursues unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman while he is drunk, he is still raping her, and his lack of sobriety is not a legal excuse for rape. Legal responsibility for a rape falls only on the rapist. On these issues, I think you and I are both in some basic agreement.
But I'm not sure that we can move all date rapes involving alcohol to the health care system rather than the legal system, anymore than we can remove drunken driving from the legal system and put it in the health care system. It is difficult enough now to get rape convictions in date rape situations, and to reduce the potential penalties for date rape would serve to give men a license to rape with impunity in such situations. Just because drinking behavior is involved in the commission of a crime, doesn't mean you should decriminalize the act. I think women do need the legal protection of date rape laws. But you would have to address the issue of binge drinking as a separate heath problem contributing to the crime of date rape in order to try to prevent rapes in the future. An individual who engages in binge drinking, beyond a few occurrences a year, is medically considered to have a problem with alcohol abuse. If people are somewhat regularly drinking to the point of intoxication, we have a widespread problem with alcohol abuse that our health systems should not ignore.
So, why do we have so much binge drinking or excessive drinking connected with "casual sex"? Some of the literature I have read hypothesizes that many single women are really not all that comfortable with the whole issue of "casual sex" and the notion that men, who are little more than strangers, expect her to make herself sexually available to them. So, the single woman who goes to a party, or a bar, in the hope of meeting a nice guy she could date and have a relationship with, also finds herself surrounded by men who are looking at her as a "score" for that night, and she knows that. Or the woman on her first date with a man may know he's going to try to have sex with her. In both those bar and first date situations the woman may be feeling somewhat anxious and uncomfortable and may drink, even drink excessively, to reduce her anxiety and make her feel socially and sexually less inhibited. This does not mean she wants unwanted sexual contact, it just means she's trying to feel more relaxed in a situation that really isn't all that comfortable for her to begin with. And, the more often a single woman puts herself in such situations, the more her alcohol intake may increase, particularly in bars or parties, where everyone appears to be drinking. So, just when a woman needs to have her wits about her, if she socially connects with a man she is going to be alone with that night, she has dulled her senses, and her inhibitions, with alcohol, and she might well be putting herself into a dangerous situation, or one with the potential for rape.
If women have to get drunk in a situation, to feel good about the situation, and in the situation, perhaps they are putting themselves in situations they'd be better off avoiding in the first place. Women shouldn't have to numb themselves with alcohol to be able to relax and enjoy the social scene in a singles bar or a party. They shouldn't have to dull their senses and inhibitions with alcohol in order to be able to hook up or connect with a man at a bar or social gathering. And, if that's what is occurring, perhaps women need to take a look at whether they are being socially pressured into doing things they'd rather not do.
Rather than giving in to social pressures, or men's expectations about having sex, perhaps women need to start thinking about, and expressing, what they do want, particularly from the men they meet socially, and that may well not include sex with relative strangers. Date rape laws are necessary, but they are clearly not enough. The whole idea that the man simply has a right to expect sex, or is entitled to sex, from a woman he does not know well, or a woman who wants a relationship before sexual intercourse enters the picture, may be wrong. Men have no entitlement regarding sexual contact with a woman, and they should not expect women to go along with such thinking. When the woman says, "No" she's got to feel she's got a right to say no. She's got a right not to be coerced. But many women, having been brainwashed by our overly sexualized culture, may deep down not feel they have this right. That's why they may be unsure if they were even raped in a date rape situation. They know the sex was unwanted, but it's even hard for them to admit it was rape. And that then contributes to the under-reporting of date rapes. Men have to learn that "No means no", otherwise it's rape. But woman have to learn, and really believe, that they have a perfect right to say, "No', for any reason under the sun, without feeling the least bit guilty about it, and they should expect the man to be listening when they say it, and take it seriously.
