25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Mame
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I assume that the designers of this campaign know this, thus the real goal is to get people other than the victim to turn in rapists. It is yet another assault on the right of the victim to determine their own course of action, their own destiny. It is a new push to depower victims, done under the cover of promoting the victim.


That's stretching it pretty far! lol
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:35 pm
@Intrepid,
tea? lol How about washing your hands?
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Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
if that is what you wanted to do you would have left my name out of it....you have other agendas..


I didn't introduce your name in comparison to William. The comparison to you had already been made and I was comparing the disassociation with you to the association of others with William. The point I had was not about you, take any nutcase (edit: any random perceived nutcase, this is not about you either) on able2know and the point stands. They don't feel nutty-by-association themselves just for being on a forum that a nut has found.
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Intrepid
 
  5  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
The clear goal is for idiots who think it is ok to rape NOT to do it!
I seriously doubt that this much money is spent by idiots who would think that an tv commercial will convince otherwise rapists to not do it. However, I do commend your ability to avoid the obvious in your mission to protect your delusions that those who claim to be working for victims must be honest and fair folk.


Yeah, and the drug ads are for people to turn drug users in rather than trying to show impressionable young people the dangers of such activity.

Your stupidity is only surpassed by your lack of reasoning. Not that you would know the difference.
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I am not in favor of rape, I am in favor of removing some of the recent changes in the definition of rape.


Call me stupid, but I believe you. You've probably stated elsewhere how you think rape should be defined vs how it's defined today. If so, then I've missed it. How would you define rape?
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:46 pm
@JPB,
Oh I don't think he's in favor of rape either (I do think he's a misogynist though). His problem is that he'll occasionally make a statement that is inordinately inclusive of what he says shouldn't be called rape. Like when he says something like how spousal rape should never be considered rape. That is inclusive of as brutal a rape as is possible but he also doesn't like backing down from anything he says, so he'd rather stick with a pro-rape rap and wear the mantle of unpopularity like vindication than moderate his extremes and retract a brainfart.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:57 pm
This from the Not Ever website

We need to stop victim-blaming and assign responsibility to those whose decisions do lead to rape – perpetrators and the apologists whose woman-blaming views have assigned rape its current status as a low-risk crime. For as long the notion that women can “ask for it” or invite attack through their dress or behaviour are allowed to persist, rapists will continue to act with impunity, confident in the knowledge that their actions will receive far less scrutiny than those of the women they assault.
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 05:33 pm
@Robert Gentel,
That's pretty much my take on him, too.
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Izzie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 05:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
You confuse me HE.

I believe (and I know I forget stuff briefly browse some threads when/ if I find it offensive) - but I read somewhere that you believed the abuse your family had suffered (the children) - you implied or said out straight that this was a good thing that had happened to them as it had made them vicitms, who then became empowered... hence, the rape/sexual abuse scenario gave me an implied implication that you were in hindsight, pleased it had happended as it had increased their life experiences and made then strongers.

Of course, I could have be rereading this completely wrong.

can you just clarify that with me if you choose to because I can't find the quote with the search...

do you believe it was a blessing the girls in disguise being sexually abused.

I am wrong about this perception, please accept my apolgies.
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 06:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

"Robert Gentel" wrote:
so he'd rather stick with a pro-rape rap and wear the mantle of unpopularity like vindication than moderate his extremes and retract a brainfart.
I am going with the expectation that over time the problem with these new versions of sex law will become clear to many, as they are currently clear to a few, and that they will be seen to be serious enough to demand reform. My position is not extreme in the sense that the facts dont support it, it is only extreme in the sense that what I see few others see at the moment.



So...

how do you define rape?
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 07:28 pm
@JPB,
This taken from July 2008

Hawkeye wrote on July 2, 2008

Quote:
You act like consent and force are cut and dried. They are not, these are very squishy concepts. Actually, rape has been redefined to include coercive sex which is more nebulous still, coercion can been just about anything we want it to mean. We have not gotten there yet but if i take you out to dinner with the expectation that their will be sex after, and after you put the brakes on and I explain that I expected sex after, this will before long be defined as coercion. If you then change your mind and we have sex you could latter make the case that you have been raped. This is about the level that we have gotten to, which basically is that men have no rights to negotiate to have there sexual needs met if their needs exceed that of their female partner. Rape law is being used to shut men up, to not allow men to speak that which women do not what to hear. Rape law is being used to coerce men in to allowing women complete control of sexual encounters. No, I am not agreeing to this scheme, and other men should not either. You don't get to equality based relationship by giving in to every demand that females make, you don't get anywhere in fact.


Intrepid replied to Hawkeye on July 2, 2008

Quote:
No means NO. Period.


Hawkeye replied:

Quote:
Humans do not work that way, negotiations are continuous.


Intrprepid resonded:

Quote:
Bullshit


Hawkeye came back with:

Quote:
Have you ever been in love or in lust? Always quit at the first "no"? Do those who do quit ever get the girl? Women do not always know what they want, admit to what they want, do not always give straight answers, and do not respect men who give -up on pursuing them.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 07:46 pm
@Intrepid,
Thanks, Intrepid. I know this has been regurgitated many times over, but I still don't see Hawkeye's definition of rape in there.

Rape can't be defined by what it isn't. It can only be defined by what it is. Hawk is presenting a case of the negative - he doesn't like how it's been redefined since... the 60s?, 70s?, his youth?... I honestly have no idea.

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NickFun
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 08:01 pm
When a woman says "no" that should be the end of it. If a man continues he is a rapist regardless of how she is dressed or what she did before. Any man who exerts dominance over someone weaker is a coward!
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 08:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
As the law does. The definition should be narrowed up again to make it meaningful again, and all but non predatory and/or non physically violent sexual offenses should be handled in the public health system, with not contact orders and court ordered mental health care as needed


So, based on this and what you have said before, you do not consider it rape if there is no actual violence or stalking?
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mickydee
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 09:12 pm
@firefly,
this will never stop a rapist from raping someone, the only way to stop a rapist sadly is for them to rape someone and be put in prison, and even then they might do it again, i ersonally don't like this, i don't want to be contantly reminded not to rape someone, it isn't on my list, and i don't see why anyone should blame a victim for the rape.
 

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