25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 08:13 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
All of this seems quite acceptable to BillRM. His only concern is that the "poor man's name" will be tarnished if she turns around and has him arrested. Because, in his view, women tend to lie and falsely accuse, and, even if she's telling the truth, the rape was her fault anyway. And he sees what the man did as acceptable behavior anyway.
In some ways, I'm glad BillRM has continued to post in this thread. He does expose and reveal the deeply sexist attitudes that contribute to rape as a social problem, and to rape as an actual crime, because he is displaying them. And I assume that most people who read his posts are quite aware of that, judging by their responses to him. So he helps to provide concrete examples of the sort of mindset that contributes to making more women the victims of sexual assault.


I happen to have far more respected for womankind then you seem to and let look once more at the date rapist story you had posted here.

Here we had an adult woman 21 plus years old out drinking in a bar and yet the date rapist of roughly the same age grouping is full of shame because he had "seduce" her and taken advantage of all her weaknesses in a shameful manner to get her into his apartment for a sexual encounter.

His comments all thought the story indicate from first to last he view her and other women as defenseless children and preys that could not have a clue in the world that he is plotting to have his way with her as after all she had been drinking and far from home. Unlike him and others males a drinking female had loss the little ability to function at all at an adult level that a sober female might barely have.

In the story he in the end after talking her all the way into his apartment did fall back on force at the end game starting with getting her cloths off her and therefore without question raping her. We will get back to that later.

Now let look at this and less assume just for now that both of them are adults of roughly the same level of intelligent and ability to function after drinking.

They are both out for a sexual encounter otherwise neither ones of their behaviors in the story would make sense under the assumption that they are both able to function as adults and she is not in fact a very weak minded prey.

Role playing here seem to be going on he as the big powerful predator and her as a weak low functioning prey or as the Big Bad Wolf and the Little Red Riding Hood.

Taking the strange used of force at the end out of the picture this whole story is a wonderful example of how some women who wish to engineer a casual sexual encounter and still be able to claim to be blameless would and have been known to had gone about it.

Now if I was on a jury and this case was before me I would have zero problem in finding him guilty of rape if it was shown that he had used force at any point in this matter otherwise hell no.Her drinking and his drinking is beside the point if she can function to the point of walking and talking as it is her duty not his to judge how must alcohol to consume.

He would not have any right to claimed I used force on her and rape her only because I happen to had been drunk and on the other side she have zero right of claimed rape because of her own drinking.

Both being adults both are responsible for their own actions under the influence of alcohol or drugs as long as they both was the ones who knowingly and willingly consume them in the first place.






0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 08:20 pm
About this time and actually, many times before, I can just picture Timberlandko throwing in that picture of that great big heavy machine (bulldozer or something) that is stuck in the mud.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 08:23 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I like posting at A2K is because it gives me the opportunity to think about a lot of different topics. I'm not interested in arguing, I'm interested in discussing.


I had taken the time to look at your whole posting history on this group and you are very narrowly focus.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 08:28 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
who are terrified at the thought of the average women being equal to the average man...


Sorry billy my wife is far far superior to me in every measurable aspect.

And anyone with a brain cell working would know which side happen to view women as children.

Hint it is the side that see women as victims.









BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 08:34 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Since rape is an illegal act, wouldn't that apply?


Rape is force sex without agreement/consent.

Rape is not a role playing game were both parties had agree to having sex and role playing rape also.

How could it be?

Side note it is my understanding and Hawkeye could give you more information that the couple normally set up a safety word to be used if either wish to end the role playing at any time.



0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 10:02 pm
Quote:

'RapeLay' video game goes viral amid outrage
By Kyung Lah, CNNMarch 31, 2010 3:08 a.m. EDT

Tokyo, Japan (CNN) -- The game begins with a teenage girl on a subway platform. She notices you are looking at her and asks, "Can I help you with something?"

That is when you, the player, can choose your method of assault.

With the click of your mouse, you can grope her and lift her skirt. Then you can follow her aboard the train, assaulting her sister and her mother.

As you continue to play, "friends" join in and in a series of graphic, interactive scenes, you can corner the women, rape them again and again.

The game allows you to even impregnate a girl and urge her to have an abortion. The reason behind your assault, explains the game, is that the teenage girl has accused you of molesting her on the train. The motive is revenge.

When does a video game go too far?

It is little wonder that the game, titled RapeLay, sparked international outrage from women's groups. Taina Bien-Aime helped yank the game off store shelves worldwide.

"This was a game that had absolutely no place on the market," said Taina Bien-Aime of women's rights organization Equality Now which has campaigned for the game to be taken off the shelves.

But the controversy that led to stopping sales of the game instead took it viral.

That was how Lucy Kibble and Jim Gardner in Britain heard about it.

"I think the idea that you can do it by wholesale banning is just never going to work anyway because we downloaded it for free off the Internet," Gardner said.

In the case of RapeLay, he was right. It is still readily available on dozens of Web sites, sometimes for free.

What happened to RapeLay is an example, said Bien-Aime, of why Japan needs to police game makers.

"It's obviously very difficult to curtail activity on the Internet. But the governments do have a role in trying to regulate this sort of extreme pornography of children, both in their countries, and through the Internet ," she said, adding that they were calling for the Japanese government "to ban all games that promote and simulate sexual violence, sexual torture, stalking and rape against women and girls. And there are plenty of games like that. "

Those games are known as "hentai games." Almost all feature girlish-looking characters. Some of the games are violent -- depicting rape, torture and bondage in detail.

Step into a game shop in Akihabara, Japan's electronics district, and hentai games are readily available. In minutes, we found a game similar to RapeLay. The object here is also revenge: Find and rape the woman who fired the player from his imaginary job. Along the way, the player can rape a number of other girls and women.

Hentai games are not new to Japan. This country has long produced products the rest of the world would call pornographic. But before the arrival of the Internet, such items stayed in Japan. Now, once a game goes on sale in Tokyo, it is digitized and shared everywhere.

Japan does have censorship laws for sexual content. In games and videos, genitalia are obscured, even if it is animated. But Japan's laws do not restrict the themes and ideas of the games.

A national law that would make possession of real and virtual images of child porn illegal is under discussion, but no serious legislation has moved forward in Japan's parliament.

CNN contacted the Gender Equality Promotion Division in the Gender Equality Bureau of Japan's Cabinet Office, which is charged with handling the hentai gaming issue.

Despite repeated calls over a period of weeks, no representative from the government office would comment to CNN on camera. The office refused to make a statement on paper. A spokeswoman would only say over the telephone that the Japanese government was aware that the games were a problem and it was checking to see if self-policing by the gaming industry was enough.

A member of the Institute of Contents Culture, who did not want to give CNN his name, said restricting game themes limits freedom of expression.

"In my opinion, RapeLay's storyline went too far. However, if a game creator wants to express something and create content out of it, a government or public entity shouldn't have the power to restrain it."

Lucy Kibble and Jim Gardner, the gamers in Britain, said trying to control games on the Internet was futile and that content control was up to parents.

"The idea of banning it, or telling people what they can and can't do just because on the off chance some kid might get involved with it is just ridiculous," said Gardner.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/japan.video.game.rape/index.html




hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 10:17 pm
@firefly,
http://able2know.org/topic/130253-1

The effort to ban this is as offensive to individual rights as is the criminalizing of animated child porn, as is that adults can not be in porn acting under-aged. Most BDSM is for all practical purposes also illegal now too except for individuals selling clips of themselves being beat. The only good thing is that with commercial product being outlawed some individuals actually make some decent money selling porn with themselves as subjects. For commerical product one needs to go overseas and smuggle it back to America.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Aug, 2010 10:18 pm
DNA testing can help to clear the innocent, but it can also help to nail the guilty...

Quote:

Florida's Malibu Rapist faces new charges
By Bianca Prieto, Orlando Sentinel
4:08 PM PDT, July 17, 2010

A notorious Florida rapist faces new charges that could prevent him from going free next year — and keep him in prison for the rest of his life.

The so-called Malibu Rapist terrorized Orlando for six years, beginning in 1985 in a subdivision called Malibu Homes. He was linked to as many as 100 attacks.

The Orange-Osceola state attorney's office has filed three new charges against George W. Girtman, a twice-convicted rapist serving a 45-year term in state prison. He faces charges of sexual battery with a deadly weapon, burglary of a dwelling and robbery stemming from a 1990 cold case, prosecutors say.

Girtman, now 56, is accused of breaking into a woman's home in the middle of the night, putting a knife to her throat and raping her. Afterward, the attacker stole money and threatened to kill her if she called police.

But the woman, "Mary," called police that night and kept following up with them for years, hoping for a break in the case.

Finally, in November, Orlando homicide Det. Michael Moreschi gave her the news she had been waiting for: A National Institute of Justice grant had enabled police to retest DNA from her case using new technology. Police found a match to Girtman's DNA profile.

Late last month, prosecutors filed charges. Girtman is being held at Orange County jail.

"I'm relieved. I'm happy, and just don't want him back out on the street to hurt anybody else," said Mary, whose real name is not being used because she was the victim of a sexual attack. "It's been a long time coming, and justice is here."

If convicted, Girtman could be sentenced to life in prison.

But if acquitted, he could be free in less than a year. Although he is serving a 45-year sentence, old laws mandated that his sentence be cut in half, and he shaved off more time for good behavior. His current prison term is set to end in June 2011.

Mary said that if called as a witness, she will face Girtman in court.

"I'm going to testify," she said. "I've gotten strong enough, and I can face anything and go on."

[email protected]
Copyright © 2010, Orlando Sentinel
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-malibu-rapist-20100718,0,7719589,print.story
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 01:31 am
@hawkeye10,
What, exactly, do you consider to be a bad law?

People in the normal world seem to be perfectly ok with the rape laws as they stand. The only people who do not like them are those who could be considered to break them. People get hurt by laws when they break them. It doesn't take a genius to understand that.

You live in a different "culture" than normal folks. Normal folks don't condone rape and try to redefine it to suit their own purpose. Normal folks don't condone sex with children. Normal folks don't belong to BDSM groups. You are not part of the normal cultlure and you are trying to bring others down to your level of society. Rather, you should be trying to bring yourself up to a higher level.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

Hawkeye suggested:
Quote:
shut the **** up and go away.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 01:39 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:



Sorry billy my wife is far far superior to me in every measurable aspect.




That seems very plausible.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 04:13 am
@firefly,
Quote:
DNA testing can help to clear the innocent, but it can also help to nail the guilty...


Not one person here have a problem with nailing real rapists, using DNA or any other technology, you know the men who used force or the threat of force or drugging behind the woman back to have sex with her.

DNA is a wonderful tool to do this and I do not think anyone here have a problem with it.

Used without human judgment however, even it can backfire on the innocents.

The police was investigating a serous rapist and ask a large pool of local men to donate DNA samples so they could narrow the possible rapist group down.

To the complete surprise and shock of one gentleman his door was broken down in the middle of the night and he was drag off to jail with his picture and name appearing in the papers the next morning.

It would seem when they ran the samples DNAs and his had come up in the database as a rapist in another case and the police was very happy that their new technology had found another evil rapist.

The only problem was that he was not a rapist and if the police had look beyond the DNA match and pull the report of the rape in question his door and his life would have remain intact.

A few years before a black man had broken into his old girlfriend apartment and rape her and the police looking for DNA evidence had used her bed sheet to obtain samples and that is how his DNA came to be enter into the database.

Now he was white and the police report of the attack clearly stated the attacker was a black man that in all other aspects did not match him either.

When informed of her attacker being found and arrested with his name given to her she at once try to clear up the matter however the police even at that point was unhappy and stated that they needed to released a rapist because his victim was not willing to aid the police!!!




BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 04:21 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The idea of banning it, or telling people what they can and can't do just because on the off chance some kid might get involved with it is just ridiculous," said Gardner.


Agree 100 percent.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 04:48 am
LOUISVILLE, Ky. (AP) — A Kentucky woman was convicted Thursday of demanding millions of dollars from Rick Pitino to keep secret their one-night stand in a restaurant, then claiming the Louisville basketball coach raped her after he reported the extortion.

Karen Cunagin Sypher, 50, of Louisville, was found guilty of three counts of extortion, two counts of lying to the FBI and one count of retaliating against a witness. She stared at the ceiling as the verdict was read, while one of her sons wept openly.

The case involved a 2003 sexual encounter between Pitino and Sypher, a former model at car shows, at a table inside a restaurant closed for the night. Pitino testified she came on to him and the sex was consensual. After she was charged, Sypher told police it was rape but Pitino was never charged.
Last year, Pitino received three threatening phone calls and two letters demanding cash and gifts for Sypher to keep the tryst secret. One of the letters showed to the jury was a handwritten note from Sypher that asked for cars, tuition for her children and her mortgage to be paid off.

Neither Sypher or her attorney commented as they left federal court following her eight-day trial. But one of her sons, Jacob Wise, confronted prosecutors. "Thanks for taking my mother away, guys," said Wise, 20.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 05:20 am
@BillRM,
Oh I forgot to add flyfire comment to the above Rick Pitino story so here it is.......

Quote:
Because, in his view, women tend to lie and falsely accuse, and, even if she's telling the truth


Women do indeed lied about rape sometime however they do not alway get away with doing so thank god.


Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 05:34 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Oh I forgot to add flyfire comment to the above Rick Pitino story so here it is.......

Quote:
Because, in his view, women tend to lie and falsely accuse, and, even if she's telling the truth


Women do indeed lied about rape sometime however they do not alway get away with doing so thank god.





Justice was served. Your point?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 05:46 am
Quote:
even if she's telling the truth, the rape was her fault anyway


LOL firefly where did I post the position that it is the woman fault if she get rape?

Maybe you can no understand my position that if a woman consent repeat consent to having sex while being under the influence of drugs or alcohol that she willingly and knowingly consume that any sex that follow with her then consent is not rape.

IE she was not rape not that it is her fault that she was rape just that no rape had occur in the first place

Not the same thing.......................
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 05:54 am
@BillRM,
A person CONSENTS to drinking alcohol and then drives a car. That person is charged with drinking and driving because it is against the law.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 08:00 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The police was investigating a serous rapist and ask a large pool of local men to donate DNA samples so they could narrow the possible rapist group down.


Are you quite sure that the police can just pick men at random and ask them to "donate DNA samples"? If the police rang your doorbell and, out of the blue, asked for DNA would you give it to them? Wouldn't they have to already be investigating you for a crime and have some evidence that lead them to you as a suspect?
Quote:

It would seem when they ran the samples DNAs and his had come up in the database as a rapist in another case and the police was very happy that their new technology had found another evil rapist.

If they already had his DNA in the data base, why would they need another sample from him? Wouldn't the police be trying to match the DNA sample on the woman's sheet, or clothing, or in the woman's body, with a particular man's DNA. If this man's DNA was already in the database, they wouldn't need to ask him to give another sample. Either the DNA they already had as rape evidence would match what was in the database or it wouldn't. Your version of events doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
A few years before a black man had broken into his old girlfriend apartment and rape her and the police looking for DNA evidence had used her bed sheet to obtain samples and that is how his DNA came to be enter into the database.

Now he was white and the police report of the attack clearly stated the attacker was a black man that in all other aspects did not match him either.

When informed of her attacker being found and arrested with his name given to her she at once try to clear up the matter however the police even at that point was unhappy and stated that they needed to released a rapist because his victim was not willing to aid the police!!!


So, how did his DNA get on her sheet? Was this black man unknown to her? Are you saying that the police completely disregard the victim's physical description of her attacker?

Your point seems to be that the police are idiots. If that is the case, the problem would go far beyond rape, it would pertain to how all crimes, and not just rape, are investigated, wouldn't it? Do you really think the police are that inept,? Or do you think it is male law enforcement personnel who are in some vast conspiracy to arrest innocent men and pin rape charges on them, since most police departments are overwhelmingly male? Do you think the police want the guilty rapist free to roam the streets while some innocent man is in jail? Are you saying that the police and D.A.s are so stupid and/or unethical that they don't care whether someone is innocent or guilty, as long as they put someone in jail? Do they do this with all crimes?

Quote:

Not one person here have a problem with nailing real rapists, using DNA or any other technology, you know the men who used force or the threat of force or drugging behind the woman back to have sex with her.


It is not up to you to decide who is a "real rapist" based on your particular limited definition of rape. The law defines the crime of rape. Rape does not require "force or the threat of force or drugging behind the woman back to have sex with her". The essential element in rape is that the sex was without consent, and the woman can indicate that with a "No". That is the law. It does not require that use of force must be demonstrated or that the woman was drugged. The victim does not have to be beaten black and blue to prove her non consent. Are you implying that all women must try to physically fight off their attackers, and risk getting very badly injured or killed, in addition to being raped, so they can prove their non consent? Or do you want to just require that all "real rapists" beat their victims, so we'll know which ones are telling the truth about consent?


Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 08:11 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
The police was investigating a serous rapist and ask a large pool of local men to donate DNA samples so they could narrow the possible rapist group down.


Are you quite sure that the police can just pick men at random and ask them to "donate DNA samples"? If the police rang your doorbell and, out of the blue, asked for DNA would you give it to them? Wouldn't they have to already be investigating you for a crime and have some evidence that lead them to you as a suspect?



There was a case of rape and murder of a young girl in Toronto several years ago. The police did just that. Asked for samples from area people.

In the end, the person responsible was apprehended. He had refused to give a sample. They got a sample from a cigarette butt or coke can (not exactly sure which of the two it was).

Anyone with nothing to hide would have no problem giving a sample and ensuring that their good name is kept in tact.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Aug, 2010 08:43 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Maybe you can no understand my position that if a woman consent repeat consent to having sex while being under the influence of drugs or alcohol that she willingly and knowingly consume that any sex that follow with her then consent is not rape.


That is agreed. And, therefore, women who feel the sex was freely consenting won't feel they were raped, correct?
But, if she says, "No", and he ignores that, and thrusts his penis into her anyway, that is rape, correct? If he was drinking too, what can he claim--that he was too drunk to realize she was saying,"No"? He's responsible for making sure she did give consent, and not ignoring signs, any signs, that she is unwilling. His being drunk does not get him off the hook. He is responsible for his behavior, whether he is drunk or sober. If drinking impairs his judgment, and he misreads, or ignores, her signals and her communications, that's his responsibility, it is not an excuse, or a defense, against rape. He's got to be absolutely sure she's willing--freely willing--to engage in the act.

Some women are too drunk to be able to give legal consent. The man may not care about that. In fact, in a date rape, the man may want the woman drunk so she offers no resistance. Generally, these men have been with the woman when she was drinking, so they know how much alcohol she has consumed, and they know she is legally intoxicated, just as they know, or should know, how much alcohol they can legally drink before driving.
Or, if they just suddenly happen to come upon an already intoxicated woman, they are expected to be able to know just how drunk she is. The fact she can walk and talk isn't enough to indicate she isn't legally impaired. Can she carry on an extended rational conversation? Does she slur her words? Have any balance problems? Are you saying men are too dumb to know when a women is intoxicated?

Isn't the real problem that some men just don't care. They are more than willing to "take advantage of" a woman in that condition. They are sexual opportunists. They don't consider themselves rapists, but the law doesn't see it that way. They are rapists. Having sex with an intoxicated woman is like having sex with a women who is mentally impaired, cognitively impaired, or disabled, and those groups of women can not legally give consent either. If men want to disregard the law, they should be ready and willing to accept the consequences. And that may include a rape charge.

It is the man who claims the sex was with her consent. Are you so naive you don't believe men lie about that? And don't you think they lie about that far, far, far more often than women make false rape accusations?

 

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