Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

Council members worry those victims' attackers will never be brought to justice. ‘They might write a little report about that, but most of the ‘unfoundeds’ will not be found. And that's the issue,’ said 14 District Councilwoman Mary Pat Clarke.

And even if police decide to move forward with a case that had been labeled as 'unfounded,’ State's Attorney Patricia Jessamy told council members that her office will only prosecute what she called 'viable' cases. Councilman Jim

Quote:

Kraft asked her to define that term. ‘We need evidence to proceed,’ Jessamy said. ‘So prosecutors will take cases to court where there is evidence that a person is guilty.’

But in cases where no report was taken, evidence might not exist, leaving Baltimore City with dozens of newly discovered rape allegations, but no suspects charged with any of them. ‘’It's a crime. It's not just a shame,’ Clarke said. ‘It's illegal, against the law, do something, arrest them.’

The police commissioner said the department and its partners are still in the process of working out how they'll proceed with all those old cases. The 100 or so that have been identified are just from January of 2009 until now.

Oh lord the police who job it is to be do the first level screening in crime reporting found a large number of rape charges as being without merit or proof or both and yet we need to find someone to charge it would seem whether a rape/sexual assault had or have not happen.

You posting seem to prove my point more then your that a lot of assaults claims are on their face are without merit.

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@BillRM,

Re-read that article. You missed the point. They should have investigated those "unfounded" cases. That's why they have vowed to correct this situation. They now realize they have done a terrible disservice to victims of sexual assaults.
If they don't do investigations, they never get the evidence.

Quote:

From now on the first, uniformed officer who responds to a rape call can't dismiss a victim's claim as unfounded. Instead the officer must forward it to detectives. ‘We must ensure that victims have confidence that their reports of sexual assault are taken seriously,’ Bealefeld said.

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@firefly,

You are a laugh a minute I was reading your "I am a rapist" story on and on waiting for him to do some illegal act that could be call rape.

I was getting to the point where I was about to give up and then he force her cloths off her again her will at last a clear act of rape/sexual assault.

He was drinking and she was drinking and they was both playing a role game him as the big bad wolf and her as little red riding hood in your morality story.

However the big bad wolf should not have force her cloths off instead of talking them off.

Lord I am so happy that the women who always had turn me on are not the little red riding hood type that need excuses to have sex with a man.

Oh I can foresee a lot of horny and unhappy little red riding hoods cursing you and other people like you who had talk the big bad wolfs into going out of business.

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@firefly,

Quote:

They should have investigated those "unfounded" cases. That's why they have vowed to correct this situation

That was the people looking for votes not the crime experts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The experts was being overrule so the politicians could get votes.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
They should have investigated those "unfounded" cases. That's why they have vowed to correct this situation

That was the people looking for votes not the crime experts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The experts was being overrule so the politicians could get votes.

If people are voting for politicians for this reason, as YOU seem to be stating, it would not take a genius to figure out it is because the people want this done. There is a very good reason for that.

You are so bent on taking opposing views that you do not read what is posted to you; you certainly do not put any thought into what you post; you make up statistics and do not even take time to decipher them to see that even a low percentage number can mean a large actual number.

One just has to look at any post, in any thread that you post in to see your tactics. Hell, one can see other sites around the internet where you do the same thing.

I am really at a lost to understand why people continue to go back and forth with you. Perhaps it is because it gives them an opportunity to get some actual facts across to those who actually have the ability to understand them.

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Firefly just between you and me dear friend is your livelihood tied into any form of rape/sexual assault counseling or education or a similar area?

Is that how you are such an expert in these matters?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

I am really at a lost to understand why people continue to go back and forth with you. Perhaps it is because it gives them an opportunity to get some actual facts across to those who actually have the ability to understand them

That's about it. If responding to BillRM will result in the opportunity to either present additional facts, or a different perspective, or to correct broader, more general, distortions in reasoning, then it is worth the effort, because other people might benefit from reading these things as well.

It is absolutely pointless to otherwise respond to his posts. He's not interested in really hearing an opinion from anyone, he just wants an opportunity to disagree with it. And throughout this thread, his thinking has been consistently sexist, something he seems unable to recognize. And that includes his calling virtually every female who has posted in this thread either a "man hater" or a lesbian, which are apparently his stereotype of any woman who wishes to see rapists charged and prosecuted for their crimes.

To try to have a rational dialogue on the subject of rape, with an individual who holds deeply ingrained sexist attitudes toward women, is essentially futile. And his sexist attitudes contribute to his desire to continually derail this thread. He does think women are responsible for their own rapes, particularly in date rape or acquaintance rape situations (she got drunk, she really wanted sex, but she changed her mind later, etc). In his mind, the man bears no responsibility for making sure he has the consent of a fully conscious woman, who is free to get up and leave if she so desires. He denies that, if those conditions are not met, the man will be committing a rape. As long as the man can legally get away with it, an essentially non consenting sexual situation seems to be just fine with him.

Well, just having the ability to skirt the law, and get away without a rape charge or conviction, really misses the point of this entire discussion. The behavior of the man, who has sex with a woman who is not freely consenting, is rape. It is rape whether he is legally charged with the crime or not. The man whose thinking focuses on what he can get away with, or what he can take advantage of, has no basic respect for the woman in bed with him, or any regard for her as an individual. She is simply the vehicle for him to get what he wants, and anything that will lower her resistance, or diminish her control, the rapist will do, particularly the man who rapes in a date rape or acquaintance situation.

All of this seems quite acceptable to BillRM. His only concern is that the "poor man's name" will be tarnished if she turns around and has him arrested. Because, in his view, women tend to lie and falsely accuse, and, even if she's telling the truth, the rape was her fault anyway. And he sees what the man did as acceptable behavior anyway.

In some ways, I'm glad BillRM has continued to post in this thread. He does expose and reveal the deeply sexist attitudes that contribute to rape as a social problem, and to rape as an actual crime, because he is displaying them. And I assume that most people who read his posts are quite aware of that, judging by their responses to him. So he helps to provide concrete examples of the sort of mindset that contributes to making more women the victims of sexual assault.

It is impossible to change BillRM's sexist attitudes because he isn't even aware of them. And, to point them out to him is useless, because he isn't interested in learning about himself, and he'll tell you all men think like that, or his attitudes aren't really sexist because women really are like that. Like any prejudiced person, he's happy in his state of denial, and feels justified to hold his negative attitudes. So, responding to his posts, in an attempt to get him to change his thinking or "see the light", is a complete waste of time.

So, when his posts provide the opportunity for a "teachable moment" they are worth responding to. Others read this thread and something said might benefit them. Poor BillRM doesn't realize those replies really aren't even being directed toward him, they are for the larger audience. He foolishly thinks he's being taken seriously. He should be taken seriously only as an example of the thinking that contributes to the problem of rape.

And all of this applies equally to Hawkeye.

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Quote:

.
David Lisak on Acquaintance Rapists: “We’re Giving a Free Pass to Sexual Predators”
Posted by Amanda Hess on Apr. 23, 2010 at 12:10 pm

In the world of sexual assault prevention, the work of University of Massachusetts psychologist David Lisak has gained some serious traction. Lisak has spent the past 20 years studying men who commit acquaintance rapes. In the past year, that work has been dissected by feminist blogs, employed in an investigative report from the Center for Public Integrity, and integrated into the policies of campus safety nonprofit Security On Campus. Being a bit of a fan girl myself, I was happy to discover more from Liak: This CBS news interview in which the researcher talks about the ways in which non-stranger rapists operate, how they’re ignored by the criminal justice system, and why these men tell him about the rapes they’ve committed. Transcript after the jump.

The most common rape is a non-stranger assault where the victim is picked out by the offender at a party, at a bar. The degree of acquaintance between them is usually very, very incidental. It is really just the perpetrator finding a particular individual who they’re going to target. And so if they’re in a bar, if you’ve got a predator in a bar, he’s not going to look for the most sober individual in the bar. He’s going to look for the most intoxicated individual. In fact, he’ll look for the individual who is not only intoxicated but seems to be doing outrageous things.

Somehow all we can do is take the statement from the victim, take the statement from the alleged perpetrator, and then throw up our hands because they’re saying conflicting things and we don’t know how to resolve this. That’s not how we investigate other crimes. You know, in almost any other circumstance, if we have an alleged perpetrator, we begin an investigation. And it doesn’t end with asking the alleged perpetrator whether or not they did the crime. Rather than taking the report and investigating the alleged offender—which is what we do in virtually every other crime and certainly in violent crimes, that is our approach—and yet somehow that’s not the approach that’s taken in non-stranger cases.

The reason that this is such a common part of the scenario—the non-stranger assault—is that we know, and I’ve interviewed these rapists for 20 years and they have told me explicitly, they are predators. They go after victims in those kinds of circumstances, and they look for potential victims who are already somwhat vulnerable. They’re going to get her so intoxicated that she might have blackouts, she may be unconscious, she is much more susceptible to all the manipulations you would use. So for example, you get her completely intoxicated and then you say, “You know what? You really shouldn’t drive. I’ll drive you home.” And then, presto! The rapist has her in his car, and the assault can happen whether in his car, his apartment, or wherever, but she’s under his control. And that scenario has been described to me so many different times by these non-stranger rapists.

Predators look for vulnerable people, and they prey on vulnerable peope, and if as a criminal justice system, we’re going to essentially turn away from any victim who is drinking or any victim who is in some way vulnearble, we’re essentially giving a free pass to sexual predators. A lot of these men, especially the serial rapists, are very very narcissistic, there is nothing they enjoy more than to sit down in a room with a guy like me and impress me with all their sexual exploits. And that’s how they view them.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2010/04/23/david-lisak-on-acquaintance-rapists-were-giving-a-free-pass-to-sexual-predators/

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@firefly,

I am thoroughly enjoying all of your posts firefly. They are well thought out and you have presented excellent evidence to back up any claims you have made.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Is that how you are such an expert in these matters?

I know you meant it sarcastically but one has to marvel at the clear and concise information she's offering.

I know I have learned more from this thread than any other in memory

If you feel the same, let Firefly know through a post or PM, won't you?

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@Arella Mae,

Thanks, Arella Mae.

Another thing that BillRM does not understand is that one need not be a rape counselor or rape educator to understand the issues we have been discussing, one simply needs to be willing to learn and to become informed. I generally try to be as informed as I can about most issues that interest me or that affect our lives.

And I always try to think things out before posting. Talking just for the sake of talking, really makes no sense to me. I enjoy thinking things through. One reason I like posting at A2K is because it gives me the opportunity to think about a lot of different topics. I'm not interested in arguing, I'm interested in discussing.

Glad you are enjoying reading, Arella Mae. Ignore BillRM and Hawkeye and don't let them bait you into replying to them or giving them attention they really don't deserve. Please, do throw your two cents into this discussion as often as you can, I enjoy hearing from you.

And thanks, panzade. I have been putting effort, and time, into this thread, and it is nice to know that some people do appreciate it.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Ignore BillRM and Hawkeye and don't let them bait you into replying to them or giving them attention they really don't deserve.

I disagree Firefly. Without their input the thread wouldn't have been nearly as informative

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@firefly,

Oh, I have no problem ignoring them now. panzade is kind of correct about the thread wouldn't have been as informative without them though. I doubt there would have been as many informative and excellent posts by you and others having to refuting their foolishness. I hope that made sense.

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@panzade,

I'm glad that you found their input contributed to making the thread informative, panzade. Then you should continue to reply to them.

Arella Mae can continue to reply to them too if she wishes to do so. But at times they have both baited and personally insulted her, without reason, and responding to them becomes needlessly aggravating and an exercise in frustration. It never has anything to do with the topic, it is always personal. But, it's obviously up to her what she wants to do.

You always make sense, Arella Mae.

And I'm not sure we needed them to keep this thread going or to make it interesting. They have turned some posters off and likely kept them out of the discussion and the thread.

For instance, we have had a rape survivor post in this thread. She wound up largely being ignored and left. How could a rape survivor listen to some of the stuff they have been posting? That sort of thing really bothers me.

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@firefly,

They are a pair of demented, cowardly misogynistic trolls, who are terrified at the thought of the average women being equal to the average man... probably because they are both substandard men... and know it. They don't even realize that this is precisely why they feel a need to blur the lines between persuasion, coercion, and rape. Real men understand and respect women well enough to never need to consider the latter two as options. Amazing that neither of these sickos seem to realize that the man who's worth taking to bed doesn't have to beg, let alone force his partner to go there. Thanks for spending so much time obliterating their pathetic attempts to disseminate misinformation, and I would agree ignoring their cowardly idiocy is a fine program to reduce the output of same.

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@firefly,

I won't be replying to them any longer no matter what they say.

I had asked, I think it was JTT, a question earlier in this thread and I don't think he answered. Someone said something about getting it in writing if a woman was asking to be "raped" as a sex game. I don't think that contract would hold up in court. I am not sure but wouldn't it be like people putting their vehicles in someone else's name and then filing bankruptcy and they had a written agreement with the person to get the vehicle back? The contract would be void because it was a contract to do an illegal act.

Since rape is an illegal act, wouldn't that apply?

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@Arella Mae,

People could agree to role play a game that involved some sort of fantasy of being ravished. But playing a game, or role playing, or acting out a fantasy with someone you know is very different than actually being raped. I would assume that with your partner you could call a halt to the game, or they could, so both people still have some control in the situation.

From the reading I've been doing about this topic, I understand that some people in the BDSM scene may actually use contracts. If someone gets badly injured, or gets killed, I'm not sure how worthwhile those contracts are. I would imagine they are mainly to verify that whatever went on was discussed beforehand and was consensual.

I think you are right, you can't have a valid contract for an illegal act.

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

They are a pair of demented, cowardly misogynistic trolls, who are terrified at the thought of the average women being equal to the average man... probably because they are both substandard men... and know it. They don't even realize that this is precisely why they feel a need to blur the lines between persuasion, coercion, and rape. Real men understand and respect women well enough to never need to consider the latter two as options. Amazing that neither of these sickos seem to realize that the man who's worth taking to bed doesn't have to beg, let alone force his partner to go there. Thanks for spending so much time obliterating their pathetic attempts to disseminate misinformation, and I would agree ignoring their cowardly idiocy is a fine program to reduce the output of same.

You are being too kind to those bozos. We have one who advocates sex with children and can't understand why there should be laws against such a thing. He considers what the normal world calls rape to be a conquest or prize. He is, obviously, a weak and pathetic man who is kept by his wife and probably feels inadequate with women who would not put up with his nonsense.

The other one just argues with whatever a thread is about. He is an uneducated boor who just posts the same garbage over and over and probably feels real good about himself and thinks he is being clever. He also has no problem with rape and continues on and on about sex with the use of alcohol is not a problem. He has told us, on numerous occassions of him having sex with his wife when she is drunk. That is probably the only way she will give in to him. Poor woman. This jerk, when asked how he would feel if he was raped by a man, responded that he might be annoyed. ANNOYED?

One would think that these two morons would see that they are the only two who think this way. At least based on this thread. They don't care because they are getting the attention they so desperately seek and slither about in the mud that they sling.

The only reason that I have continued to visit this thread is because of the well thought out and presented material from Firefly. Of course, others have added to the thread as well.

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@firefly,

Thanx firefly. I had no idea that people actually did have contracts like you say.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Flyfire and her supporters came here and set up this thread with the sole purpose of selling her viewpoint and we both had been giving the other point of view and I happen to think that is important thing to do.

of course you are right......do you agree with my basic premise that we are not going to be able to move on this until enough individuals have a personal WTF moment and refuse to be silenced? when either they or someone that they care about get hurt by bad law getting applied to them or makes them realize that rights to self determination that they thought they had (the freedom that they think is their birthright) has in fact been taken away by the zealots who tell half truths and lies? Not long ago I was talking with POM on this same subject but as it relates to the economic theft that has perpetrated, and she was saying that people will not fight back, that they will take the abuse silently. I think that only works for awhile, that unless we are going to employ snitches and secret police like so many dictators, Islamic and Marxist states have done people are not going to stand for it. There is also the whole disgust factor re the infant adults that we create with the victim culture, both male and female. Both male and female tend the find the infants a huge time and energy suck after awhile, patience for them is growing thin I think. I think that there is a growing willingness to tell these infants to grow the **** up and lend a hand, or shut the **** up and go away. They had their share of babying when they were babies, now we increasingly don't feel like we have the time to listen to their wish list that in their mind we are obligated to fund.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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