Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@BillRM,

Are you sure about that?

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@firefly,

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Again, this would a problem related to the criminal justice system and not to the crime of rape

considering how heavily feminists invested in using the justice system to get what they want, flaws in the justice system or unsuitability of the justice system to solve sexual aggression problems is a problem.

Quote:

A battle against rape has been a big part of America's 30-year war on crime, as feminists and equal rights advocates pushed for prosecution of accused rapists and new laws to protect victims, with the expectation that vigorous enforcement would reduce sexual assault.

But University of Iowa law professor Aya Gruber (left) says those efforts have failed and feminism should now distance itself from a criminal justice system she believes is too influenced by the cultural status quo to produce social justice.

"Feminists have reached the limit of that legal effort and the current criminal law no longer provides a meaningful avenue for change," Gruber wrote in her paper, "Rape, Feminism and the War on Crime," published recently in the Washington Law Review by the University of Washington College of Law.

"The lonely voice of women's empowerment cannot and will not be heard above the sound and fury of the criminal system's other messages that reinforce stereotypes, construct racial and socio-economic (structures) and unmoor crime from issues of social justice."

Gruber points to studies of criminal data that shows well-intentioned legal reforms like shield laws and affirmative consent laws do not work.

http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2010/january/012210gruber.html

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And how is this any greater or less of an issue than false convictions for other crimes?

Men are far more likely to be convicted on rape charges with nothing other then the victim IDing them compare to other crimes.

Do you have verifiable statistics to back this up?

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@BillRM,

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Men are far more likely to be convicted on rape charges with nothing other then the victim IDing them compare to other crimes.

Considering that unlike any other crime in rape a defendant must prove his innocents, and that often their are no witnesses, this seems likely. I doubt that you can prove it though.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

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"The lonely voice of women's empowerment cannot and will not be heard above the sound and fury of the criminal system's other messages that reinforce stereotypes,

That is true. And it backs up the premises of this thread. Women's reports of rape tend not to be believed by law enforcement because of the stereotype Bill keeps promoting, that women make false allegations vindictively, or because of rape apologist stereotypes ("she asked for it"). And, despite rape shield laws, the characters of women who bring rape charges are often attacked and maligned on the witness stand by defense attorneys, when such factors are irrelevant to the fact of whether the woman was raped.

So, despite all the changes and efforts to empower women in the criminal justice system, rape continues to be relatively under-reported, rape kits aren't even examined, the women are not believed by law enforcement, and jurors often have preconceived attitudes and stereotypes about rape victims before they have even heard evidence in a case. It is still difficult to obtain rape convictions, and rape is a crime which can easily go unpunished,

The solution has to be to continue to attack and fight those stereotypes about rape victims and to try to counter rapist apologist attitudes. They contribute to the continuing problem of rape because they create a climate where rape is acceptable. The victim and not the rapist gets blamed for the rape.

That was my point in starting this thread. How do we counter and attack those stereotypes and attitudes?

Hawkeye, I can't thank you enough for posting something that confirms the value and the purpose of this thread.

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@firefly,

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I think one thing some of the men here do not understand is that all women realize they might be potential rape victims, we all are potential rape targets

the fear is a problem if it is unrelated to the actual threat level, as it is. This is a problem that has been in great part CREATED by the feminists and the saviors, as they continue to bandi about bogus "facts" on the extent of the rape problem overall,and about how rapes happen.

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I am very careful where I park, particularly at night, and in areas where there are not many people around

less than 20% of rapes are by a stranger, parking is now often covered with security cameras so anyone guy stupid enough to do a rape in such a place is going to jail, why are you afraid? When was the last time you heard of someone getting raped in a parking lot? It has been years for me.

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@firefly,

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that women make false allegations vindictively

Vindictively or by honest errors women do indeed made unfounded rape charges.

That is a fact that had been proven over and over on this thread.

But we should for some reason turn our back of the facts it would seem.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Hawkeye, I can't thank you enough for posting something that confirms the value and the purpose of this thread

Glad to be of service. I hope one day you will be able to join me in lobbying to remove intimate conflicts from the justice system and putting them into the public health system.

I do not agree fully with this professor, but I do make it a practice to listen to and work with people that I do not agree with. In this case she reaches the same conclusion I do, but gets there a different way than I.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

parking is now often covered with security cameras so anyone guy stupid enough to do a rape in such a place is going to jail, why are you afraid? When was the last time you heard of someone getting raped in a parking lot? It has been years for me.

Sorry Hawkeye to be fair a google news search show 152 hits for rapes in parking lots for the last month.

It would seem rapists are not too bright on the whole.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

It would seem rapists are not too bright on the whole.

You've finally said something with which I can agree.

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@hawkeye10,

The fact that only 20% of rapes are done by strangers is no comfort to me, or to any other woman, in reducing a sense of vulnerability. 20% of rapes is still a large number, and I'd rather not be in that 20%.

The multi-level parking areas around here are not covered by security cameras. They have almost no security. And some of the large hospitals have had incidents in these lots. You really need a human security guard sitting on each level. That would help somewhat, for both men and women. At least someone could hear screams or loud noises. Muggings occur in these places as well.

The problem of rape, and women's feelings of vulnerability about rape, has not been created by feminists. The feminists have merely expressed those fears to bring it to public attention, and to the attention of men. Rape fears are due to the fact that rapes occur.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I think one thing some of the men here do not understand is that all women realize they might be potential rape victims, we all are potential rape targets
the fear is a problem if it is unrelated to the actual threat level, as it is. This is a problem that has been in great part CREATED by the feminists and the saviors, as they continue to bandi about bogus "facts" on the extent of the rape problem overall,and about how rapes happen.

Quote:
I am very careful where I park, particularly at night, and in areas where there are not many people around
less than 20% of rapes are by a stranger, parking is now often covered with security cameras so anyone guy stupid enough to do a rape in such a place is going to jail, why are you afraid? When was the last time you heard of someone getting raped in a parking lot? It has been years for me.

You make it seem as if 20% is an insignificant number that should not be considered.

So, get raped first and then use the security cameras to id your attacker. How stupid is that? The idea is to PREVENT the rape.

When you say it has been years for you.....do you mean since you raped; since you were raped; or, since you heard of a rape?

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@hawkeye10,

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I do not agree fully with this professor, but I do make it a practice to listen to and work with people that I do not agree with. In this case she reaches the same conclusion I do,

She does not reach the same conclusion you do. Go back and re-read your own post. She says nothing about removing rape from the criminal justice system and treating it in the public health system

She clearly states that the problem is the prevailing cultural stereotypes regarding women which affect the criminal justice system. That would include stereotypes about rape victims, and rape apologist attitudes that affect whether the police even believe a woman who makes a rape report, whether a rape kit is even examined, and whether jurors are really unbiased about the victim in a rape trial.

Those stereotypes and rapist apologist attitudes are the reason I posted this thread. They contribute to an acceptable climate for rape, a climate in which rape easily goes unpunished.

You inadvertently, or unthinkingly, posted something that confirms the entire value and purpose of this thread.

And, again, I thank you for doing that.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

The multi-level parking areas around here are not covered by security cameras. They have almost no security. And some of the large hospitals have had incidents in these lots. You really need a human security guard sitting on each level. That would help somewhat, for both men and women. At least someone could hear screams or loud noises. Muggings occur in these places as well

there was a rash of high award liability suits against landlords for crime that took place in parking lots, and the price if security camera systems has been slashed in recent years, combining to get them installed. I am not a big fan of camera's everywhere like Briton does, but camera's in parking lots does make sense, and from what I can see is common. I think that rapists know this and avoid those places now. Ditto for elevators, other place the women are tough to fear.

EDIT: doing some google it appears that not all areas in America have as much video surveillance as where I live.

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@firefly,

Quote:

She does not reach the same conclusion you do. Go back and re-read your own post. She says nothing about removing rape from the criminal justice system and treating it in the public health system

she does, she concludes that the criminal justice system is not suitable for arriving at social justice. She has not gone as far as I, because she says nothing about where to go, only that what we are doing does not work.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Originally published Wednesday, December 3, 2008 at 12:00 AM

Man charged in rapes of 2 women in SeaTac
A 29-year-old man was charged Tuesday with raping two women in two separate incidents over the past five weeks.
By Sonia Krishnan
Seattle Times staff reporter

A 29-year-old Seattle man was charged Tuesday with raping two women in two separate incidents over the past five weeks. Imranbhai Vahora was charged with two counts of rape and one count of robbery.

He's accused of raping an 18-year-old Tukwila woman Oct. 27, after the victim was forced into a car around 10:30 p.m. in the 16800 block of International Boulevard in SeaTac, according to the King County Sheriff's Office,

The woman was driven a few blocks to a deserted parking lot, where she was robbed of her cellphone and some money, police said. The woman then was slapped and threatened before she was raped in the back seat of the car, said sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart. The victim was dropped off at a nearby gas station, but she managed to memorize the man's license plate as he drove away, Urquhart said.

Vahora also is accused of raping a 19-year-old Pierce County woman he allegedly picked up in Seattle and to whom he offered a ride home, Urquhart said. Vahora ended up taking the woman to the same deserted parking lot in SeaTac and raping her at knife point, he said.

The woman, who was "punched repeatedly," escaped from the car naked and was able to flag down a passer-by for help, Urquhart said.

Deputies later found Vahora and his car — a four-door, black 2007 Mazda 323 — at his home in the 12600 block of Occidental Avenue South. Both victims picked his photo out of a lineup, according to charging papers.

Vahora was arrested at home three days later, Urquhart said. He was booked into King County Jail where he is being held in lieu of $750,000 bail. He will be arraigned Dec. 15 at the Norm Maleng Regional Justice Center in Kent.

Urquhart said sheriff's detectives are seeking the public's help in determining whether Vahora may be responsible for other attacks. Anyone who may have additional information is asked to call the King County Sheriff's Office at 206-296-3311.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008462025_rape03m.html

Do you really believe that feminists are really making this sort of stuff up to scare women and the public?

Don't you believe that women read newspapers?

Rapes are occuring all the time.

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@firefly,

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Rapes are occuring all the time.

100 percent correct and so is women placing false charges of rape either by honest errors or otherwise.

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@BillRM,

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Good luck trying to blame society for not taking rape seriously for locking up a poor man for that length of time.

I wasn't. I assumed we all knew he didn't have the benefits of DNA testing. My comment was directed at the post that revealed that most rape kits today are filed in a storeroom without being tested

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@firefly,

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Don't you believe that women read newspapers?

there are over 300 million people in america, you can find people doing every damn fool thing, however this says nothing about the likelihood that it will happen to you. We live in a culture of fear, and this fear level is perpetuated by those who have an interest in maintaining it, be it politicians trying to sell a phony war or savors trying to keep their jobs and collect power. It is your job as a citizen to try to get at the truth, and when you find groups or people misrepresenting the truth for gain to call them on it.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

She did that, but you won't listen.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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