Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@FOUND SOUL,

Quote:

men and women sometimes get drunk – it is not a crime to drink, it is a crime to rape

Wrong as the Fireflys of the world would wish to used the concept of invalid consent to turn any sex between a man and a woman where there is drinking involved into rape at the whim of the woman after the fact.

Of course this is a one way concept that does not apply to a drunken man having sex as after all men are adults responsible for their own sexual actions drunk or not where women are poor victims in the Fireflies of the world opinions.

To see how silly and unjust this can become look up the West Point cadet case that I had posted about many times before.

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@BillRM,

Bill.

I specifically posted this to one voice, for one voice.

Thank you

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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5e/51/51/5e5151333d0618e0287d0a28b5aba646.jpg

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@hingehead,

Straw man indeed posting and if someone would go into a high crime area in the middle of the night wearing a ten thousands dollar watch for example and ended up being robbed and perhaps killed people would indeed state that wearing such a watch under those conditions was a dumb and stupid thing to do.

Neither robbing or killing or raping is justify or excusable but that does not change the fact that some actions by a victim can be view as stupid.

Seem odds that it is not PC to suggest to women that they exercise commonsense as it is their rights not to do so, but it is ok to suggest to a 6 foot 250 pounds male that he should not wear that ten thousand dollars watch in some areas of his town.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

Stop. Victim. Blaming

We do not absolve ourselves of responsibility for our acts and choices by pinning on the "victim" tag, each bit of reality must be evaluated honestly and in full, which means going into the exercise without prejudice as much as possible.

The feminists are of course opposed to this, they who think we need to assume that "victims" are as pure as the driven snow and should not be questioned or criticized.

****. That.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

The feminists are of course opposed to this, they who think we need to assume that "victims" are as pure as the driven snow and should not be questioned or criticized.

****. That.

Very well said and Trump could not had done it better<grin>.

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@hawkeye10,

Bullshit.

There is no excuse for rape. It's a crime. Legally and morally/ethically. Why would it matter what the victim's level of snowness?

You're an asshole, but if someone murdered you they should be charged.

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@onevoice,

Quote:

Honey, please listen to me. Hawkeye is not wrong in the things he has been saying since I have entered this conversation.

Honey, please listen to me. Hawkeye is very wrong in the things he has been saying about me since you have entered this conversation--and his sidekick BillRM has been as well. I just haven't felt like responding to their crap--I've found it's generally better to try to ignore the fabricated BS they say about me and not feed their needs for attention or their need to derail the topic.

I realize you don't know me, and are unfamiliar with my views and attitudes, but, trust me, there is no validity to the things they have said about me--I'm simply a handy straw-man or scapegoat that they project things onto in order to have a controlled opponent to attack, the "firefly" they refer to is largely a fantasy creation of their making, which is why they never quote me directly to back up what they are saying about me.

I have absolutely no animosity toward men in general, and it is absurd to think that everyone who is concerned about societal problems and crimes of sexual assault is a "man-hater", simply because the majority of these crimes are committed by men. I've personally enjoyed nothing but great relationships with the men in my life, I've never experienced any sort of sexual abuse or assault, and I have no personal ax to grind on the topic of this thread.

And I don't need Hawkeye to point out to me that some sexual abusers experienced earlier abuse in their own lives, and they go on to repeat a pattern of abuse toward others--not only have I known that for decades, it is also an issue which has been discussed in this thread. And, of course, I feel compassion for the suffering they have gone through, and it would never occur to me to label other human beings "monsters", but that does not mean we can forgive or forget the heinous crimes some of these people committed. Aileen Wuornos did kill 7 people--she was a serial killer--and I'm not sure how Hawkeye was "standing up for her", or anyone else, by simply posting that portion of an article that referred to her and her background, and his questioning my capacity for compassion for such unfortunate souls, is just nonsense.

Quote:

I cannot even fathom the idea that any man coming from a stable background could just wake up one morning and think to himself, "Gee, I think I will rape some poor, defenseless woman today."

While it may be hard to imagine, there are men who plan, later in the day, to get a woman drunk or drugged, or simply to wait until a woman has gotten herself drunk, and then, when the woman is too impaired to either resist or consent, they will sexually assault her.

Essentially that's what Bill Cosby has been accused of doing--to over 40 women at this point.

It's what a lot of frat boys and college athletes have been accused of doing.

It's what the current and ongoing Vanderbilt University rape case is based on
http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2015/09/01/new-court-date-set-vanderbilt-rape-case/71527756/

So, I'm definitely not about to declare or assume that all of those who commit sexual assault have had some sort of sexual abuse in their own past lives. The reasons for sexual assault are numerous and varied, and go beyond any purely sexual impulses--they include factors such as needs for power or domination, expressions of hostility, feelings of entitlement, etc., all of which have also been discussed in this thread.

I don't think it is helpful to have a "victim mentality" about anything if that leads to a self-defeating or self-destructive pattern of behavior or an overwhelming sense of helplessness and lack of control. But I do not at all believe, as Hawkeye asserts, that treatment and counseling services for survivors of rape/sexual assault encourage clients to remain mired in that unhealthy state just to keep the "victim industry" robust. Like any other mental health service, the goal would be self empowerment, reduction of effects of trauma, and integration of the experience so it does not impact the individual's continued development or potential. Whether one wants to seek treatment, or should seek treatment, is an individual matter.

The same is true regarding whether to report the rape/sexual assault to the police. I personally think it is important to report these crimes, since rapists tend to repeat such assaults, and, unless their actions are reported, they will target others. I think it can also be empowering to take legal action. But involvement with the criminal justice system can be very stressful and difficult for the complainant in a sexual assault case, so each individual must decide for themselves whether to do that and endure what that might bring. But someone who has been raped or sexually assaulted is very much a crime victim and they are entitled to enlist the full force of the law to address their legal violation, and they should not be pushed into believing they were complicit in, or responsible for, their own rape--when victims start blaming themselves, they succeed in giving rapists a get-out-of-jail-free card.

We've had about 7 other A2K members discuss their own sexual assaults/rapes in this thread, and they were quite varied experiences with differing effects on the women involved. I really admire their courage and candor in sharing these things, and such painful memories, with us. It's made this thread very meaningful for me.

Quote:

And yes, to anyone reading this, that is exactly how it can feel to have been victimized. That the world has a case against you, and somehow you have to prove to the world it was not your fault. That is shame based thinking.

Well, onevoice, I am happy for you if you have moved past that shame based thinking and finally feel free and more at peace with yourself. I'm glad you feel this thread has been helpful to you.

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@hingehead,

If matter if people like you interfere with informing women how to reduced their risk of being rape/killed due to it not being PC to do so.

Yes, just because a woman get blind drunk and then passed out at a fraternity party does not mean that anyone have a right to sexually assault her or harm her in any other manner, however repeat however it is far far safer for her not to get blind drunk around people she does not trust 100 percents.

Telling her such facts is the same as telling the ten thousands dollars wrist watch wearer that it would be unwise to wear his watch in some areas of his own town.

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@firefly,

Quote:

, there are men who plan, later in the day, to get a woman drunk

"to get" meaning what, because I think in this thread we have not seen any evidence of men getting alcohol or drugs down a woman's throat without her knowledge and consent happens much anymore, and you have claimed over and over again that it was never common. When you do try to make such accusations you always get proven wrong, for instance you went on for months claiming and when the proof did not come guessing that Central Washington University men were running off campus rape parties and drunking women so that they could rape them. What it turned out to be was women on their own taking alcohol/caffeine drinks, them men had nothing to do with it, and oh yea this is shocking, as the women were vomiting the men did not have sex with them......at, all.

Females are not children, they are responsible for what they put into their body willingly and without force, STOP BLAMING MEN!

And it would be really helpful to your claims of not being a feminsits to point every blue moon someplace where you disagree with their dogm

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Yes, just because a woman get blind drunk and then passed out at a fraternity party does not mean that anyone have a right to sexually assault her or harm her in any other manner...

Right! Hold that thought! That really says it all.

The most "dangerous" period for a female on a college campus, in terms of her possibly being sexually assaulted, is during the first few weeks of school in her Freshman year. Many young women are unaccustomed to drinking and may start imbibing for the first time during parties or social events held those first few weeks, and they may get more intoxicated, or drunk faster, than they expect simply due to inexperience with alcohol and a desire to "fit in" with what everyone else is doing. The college and university rape prevention programs caution incoming students about this.

But, to repeat what you said..."Yes, just because a woman get blind drunk and then passed out at a fraternity party does not mean that anyone have a right to sexually assault her or harm her in any other manner"...

And, if they do, that's rape

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Females are not children, they are responsible for what they put into their body willingly and without force, STOP BLAMING MEN!

Yes indeed as I had stated also and in fact over and over on this website

Firefly view women as children when it come to relationships with men and their actions taken in relationship to men such as drinking with them.

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@firefly,

Quote:

and, if they do, that's rape

Never disagree if a woman is blind drunk and someone have sex with her when she is not even aware of even her surrounding that is rape.

An even under the old laws that you do not care for that is indeed rape, however if she of her own damn free will take drugs and or alcohol to the point that she is high that is her own business and it does not obligate a man in anyway to act as her guardian when it come to having sex with her.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

. When you do try to make such accusations you always get proven wrong, for instance you went on for months claiming and when the proof did not come guessing that Central Washington University men were running off campus rape parties and drunking women so that they could rape them.

You must be delusional. I not only never made such claims, I've never heard of that allegation or even heard of Central Washington University.

Your constant lying about my views or statements is made quite obvious by the fact you can never quote them verbatim or accurately. You simply make yourself look like a pathetic jerk because your arguments are so weak you need to construct a phony straw-man to make himself look better. Laughing

Quote:

Females are not children, they are responsible for what they put into their body willingly and without force, STOP BLAMING MEN!

Even your dumb buddy BillRM just acknowledged......"Yes, just because a woman get blind drunk and then passed out at a fraternity party does not mean that anyone have a right to sexually assault her or harm her in any other manner"...

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@firefly,

Quote:

The most "dangerous" period for a female on a college campus, in terms of her possibly being sexually assaulted, is during the first few weeks of school in her Freshman year. Many young women are unaccustomed to drinking and may start imbibing for the first time during parties or social events held those first few weeks, and they may get more intoxicated, or drunk faster, than they expect simply due to inexperience with alcohol and a desire to "fit in" with what everyone else is doing. The college and university rape prevention programs caution incoming students about this

The vast majority of alleged sexual assaults happen to the young, because they are inexperienced at drinking AND inexperienced at intimate relationships, in large part due to this societies very fucked up rules for youth sex. Cant legally have sex till 17?? What bullshit, no wonder we have so many problems with the under 25 set. But both parties need experience, which ideally would come younger and when they were not drinking, not just the men. The problem here is not that men suck and need to be beaten, the problem is caused by this societies messed up views on sex, which is why this is the place where I choose to attack the problem. We just had a 19 year old up on 71 years prison on 4 felony charges for one act of disputed consent sex, we arrest teens on child porn charges for sexting, open up your mind Firefly, your BEAT THE MEN! approach is barbaric and it ill not work because individual young men getting into confused consent disputes is mostly our fault, the societies fault, for not teaching both boys and girls better about sex. And contrary to the claims of the Left, the liberals are at least as much of a problem as are the abstinence pushing Right.,

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@FOUND SOUL,

Wow.

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@firefly,

Wow

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

This is a breaking news story... Perhaps this will finally expose, on a wider level, how vulnerable impaired college women are being sexually assaulted and raped. The police actually walked in on one man who was having sex with a possibly drug and alcohol intoxicated woman--he was arrested on the spot. He won't be able to claim it was "consensual".

Quote:

Cops Say Mass Overdose May Be Linked to Sex Assault Scheme
12 People, Mostly Women, Overdose at College Party; One Was Sexually Assaulted, Cops Say
By DEAN SCHABNER
Oct. 10, 2010—

Police are investigating whether 12 young people, mostly women, overdosed at a house party in Roslyn, Wash., as a result of a scheme to sexually assault women after they became incapacitated on spiked drinks.

The 12 were rushed to the hospital early today after they were given drinks spiked with a strong drug and then overdosed, police told ABC Seattle affiliate KOMO-TV.

One young woman remains in serious condition Saturday at Kittitas Valley Community Hospital after the bizarre drama, and one man is under arrest, KOMO reported.

Police said it appeared that none of the people who overdosed meant to get high or unconscious, because none had more than one or two drinks.

"We don't believe this was just a result of heavy drinking," Cle Elum-Roslyn Police Chief Scott Ferguson said.

"We don't know for certain [what drug was used]. We've drawn blood at the hospital," Ferguson said. "We're suspecting it's some type of roofie or some type of ecstasy, but that's yet to be known."

"Roofie" is the street name for flunitrazepam, a sedative commonly referred to as the "date rape" drug.

Police were called at 11:10 p.m. Friday about a possible overdose victim -- a young woman -- in a car at the Safeway grocery store in Cle Elum, Ferguson said.

The friends of the victim told police about the party and said that there were others there who also appeared to have suffered overdoses, he said.

When police got to the rented house in Roslyn, they found about 50 teens, many of them Central Washington University freshman, the chief said.

"As they entered the house they observed several individuals that appeared to be under the influence of some type of drug ... and were partially unconscious," Ferguson said.

In one room in the house, he said, officers found a young man sexually assaulting a woman who had apparently been incapacitated by a drug in a spiked drink.

The man, whose identity was not released, was arrested and the woman was rushed to the hospital, he said.

Police questioned about 35 people at the scene of the party, but Ferguson said they have not yet determined who spiked the drinks.

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/sex-assault-scheme-investigated-mass-overdose/story?id=11841057

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This is a breaking news story... Perhaps this will finally expose, on a wider level, how vulnerable impaired college women are being sexually assaulted and raped. The police actually walked in on one man who was having sex with a possibly drug and alcohol intoxicated woman--he was arrested on the spot. He won't be able to claim it was "consensual".

how about you get back to us when the cops figure out what happened?? From the description is sounds like a garden variety party school party where one of the people made the mistake of freaking out and calling the cops. If the drinks were in fact spiked without the knowledge of the party goers then this would be something else, but that remains to be seen.

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@BillRM,

Stop regarding men as children who are too dumb or lacking in self control and impulse control to abide by the rape laws.

Quote:

however if she of her own damn free will take drugs and or alcohol to the point that she is high that is her own business and it does not obligate a man in anyway to act as her guardian when it come to having sex with her.

The man doesn't have to act as her guardian, he has to act as his own guardian in such a situation, dummy.

Just as you point put it is foolish and unsafe to wear an expensive watch in a high crime neighborhood, because it might be inviting trouble, a man choosing to have sex with an impaired female might be foolishly placing himself at risk of violating existing rape laws, or of being accused of doing so. Should any sensible man want to do that to himself, or run the risk of needlessly putting himself in the position of facing a rape charge?

Men need to act responsibly in their own best interest if they want to avoid rape charges.

Most men would never think of sexually assaulting an impaired female, or an unwilling female, simply as a matter of morality, consideration and basic human respect.

But others, like you, who are obviously not motivated by such humanistic and ethical concerns, should at least try to act with common sense and avoid sexual contacts that might violate rape laws, simply as a matter of self interest.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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