Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Your assertion that my arguments are not taken seriously, are ignored, is disproven by the view count for this thread. This argument is heavily followed, which would not happen if the debate was a blow-out.

So now people are viewing this thread only because of you? The thread count is an indication your arguments are taken seriously? Maybe people enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself--isn't that equally plausible? Maybe they find the topic interesting, quite apart from any opinions you hold. More has been posted on this thread than just your opinions, or anyone's opinions.

Your ego-centric view of things, which you confirm in that statement, is pathetic. That's how you distort the meaning of things--like the meaning of that thread count. Your reasoning ability is faulty because it's so ego-centric. And that's been revealed on numerous threads, not just this one.

This thread has been running for almost 4 years, people may have viewed it for all sorts of reasons during that time--having nothing to do with taking your arguments seriously, and having nothing to do with you at all.

Quote:

Your assertion that my arguments are not taken seriously, are ignored, is disproven by the view count for this thread

http://www.a-1video.com/Jerry%20laughs.gif

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I still can see the lady who on a youtube video interview with police was claiming that the police officer that pull her over had sexual assaulted her and only the fact that his dash cam that shown that he need even have her leaved her car likely save, at a minimum, his police career.

Such a case wouldn't make it to court, regardless of video evidence. Criminals try it on with police officers all the time. You're watching way too much trashy TV, first Doctor Phil, now this, and assuming that those who work in the criminal justice system are as witless as you.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Your assertion that my arguments are not taken seriously, are ignored, is disproven by the view count for this thread.

They used to visit the inmates in Bedlam for amusement. Don't imagine for one second that those people looking at the thread don't find you ridiculous.

If you weren't so narcissistic you'd realise most people think you're a dickhead.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Criminals try it on with police officers all the time. You're watching way too much trashy TV,

Bullshits as in date rape and such situations it is mainly normally a he said she said deal and there are indeed men behind bars on a woman word alone.

There been cases where a woman, after five or ten years of a man being behind bars had have a case of a guilty consciousness and admitted that there was no rape just consensual sex or no sex at all for that matter.

Now as far as the cop who had annoyed the woman for giving her a ticket to the point she was willing to cry rape/sexual assaults at the very best it would had been a hell of a question mark on the man record for the rest of the man career.

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Men don't "ask to get raped" any more than women do. The sexual assaults/rapes of men should not be tolerated, just as the sexual assaults/rapes of women should not be tolerated.

And the traumatic and damaging impact of sexual assaults/rape on victims is similar regardless of the gender of the victim.

When people, like BillRM and Hawkeye, try to deny or minimize the problem of rape, or its damaging effects on victims, they also turn their backs on the male victims. They both opposed changes in the federal definition of "rape" that made the crime more applicable to male victims, as well as female victims, so that such crimes against men would be considered more seriously, and more support services would be available to male victims of such crimes--and they both opposed those changes to benefit men. The two of them have no genuine interest in the welfare of men, they are only interested in having a platform to express their own anti-female attitudes, and they distort the entire topic of sexual assault/rape to achieve that aim.

This was in today's news...

Quote:

Men as Victims of Rape
By Dr. César Chelala
May 22, 2014

Two male political dissidents in Egypt, Omar el-Shouekh and Fadi Samir, reported that while in police detention in Cairo they were beaten, tortured, and subjected to sexual assault. Their claim brings renewed attention to a phenomenon that is largely ignored and poorly addressed, but that causes significant damage to its victims: sexual abuse of males. New legal instruments have to be put in place to address what is a serious human rights and medical problem.

Male rape is widespread, particularly in conflict situations. Because only few men report cases of rape, statistics underrepresent the actual number of men who are sexually assaulted. In addition to Egypt, the rape of political prisoners has been reported in Chile, Greece, Iran, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), El Salvador, and Sarajevo during the Bosnian conflict.

The number of male victims of rape in some conflict situations is staggering. The United Nations stated that, out of 5,000 males held in detention in Sarajevo during the Bosnian conflict, 80 percent acknowledged having been sexually abused. During the war in El Salvador, 76 percent of male political prisoners reported having been sexually abused.

In Iran, allegations of rape and sexual abuse of both males and females in prison started to emerge after the Republic of Iran was established in 1979. In Uganda, Sudan, South Africa, and the Democratic Republic of Congo there are many personal testimonies that attest to the continuation of this practice.

At the Sexual Violence and Research Initiative (SVRI) meeting carried out in Cape Town, South Africa, in October 2011, Jocelyn Kelly of the Harvard Humanitarian Initiative at Harvard University stated that the term “sexual violence” in the DRC had become synonymous with the rape of women by armed militia. As a consequence, programs excluded male survivors of abuse and gender-base violence (GBV).

Rape is always a traumatic event with long-term physical, psychological, and social effects. Among the physical consequences are the tearing and abrasions of rectal and anal areas, which demand immediate attention because they put the victims of rape at increased risk of bacterial infections and HIV. In addition, victims experience pain in the stomach and the rectal areas as well as headaches and loss of memory.

Among the psychological reactions to sexual assault that men report are feelings of shame and humiliation, loss of self-respect, anger and anxiety attacks, flashbacks of the event, depression, mood swings, and changes in sexual activity. Survivors of rape may manifest some elements of what has been called Rape-Related Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (RR-PTSD), which is considered a variety of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). In general, few psychotherapists are familiar with the symptoms and treatment of RR-PTSD.

Men are particularly reluctant to denounce that they were subjected to rape. When men who were raped return to their communities they—and their families—face stigmatization. A study on rape of men quotes a respondent saying, “When a man is raped, his family is also raped.” Frequently, families who have one of its male members raped lose their status in their community.

Another reason why males resist denouncing their rape is that they are afraid of being branded as homosexuals, in countries where there is strong discrimination against gay people. Moses Kamba, who was raped by soldiers in his hometown in the East of the Democratic Republic of Congo, told Al-Jazeera, “After what they did to me, I felt ashamed. It was a bad experience in my life. I left Congo when I was broken and confused. I felt I had lost my dignity, with too much pain on my body.”

Physicians and paramedical personnel must be trained on how to deal with the victims of male rape. These men need counseling and support to denounce the abuse and they need help with legal and labor matters. Addressing sexual violence both against women and men is one of the critical human rights challenges of our time.

Dr. César Chelala is an international public health consultant and a co-winner of an Overseas Press Club of America award.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/688702-men-as-victims-of-rape/

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@BillRM,

Quote:

There been cases where a woman, after five or ten years of a man being behind bars had have a case of a guilty consciousness and admitted that there was no rape just consensual sex or no sex at all for that matter.

In the 4 years this thread has been running, I can recall finding only one such case--and I've done an enormous amount of research on this entire topic during those 4 years.

In that lone case, about several years after a conviction at trial (less than 5 years after, I think it was 4) this woman came forward and admitted she had perjured herself in her testimony and that a rape had not occurred. She was convicted of perjury, and was sentenced to four years in prison. And she certainly could be held additionally responsible for damages to that man, in any civil suits he might choose to bring against her.

How about all the men who aren't even reported, or who avoid any legal process or punishment, or who avoid conviction after trial, who then admit, in survey after survey, they have committed rape--generally more than once. Why are you so indifferent, or opposed to, seeing more offenders apprehended and held accountable?

Quote:

Bullshits as in date rape and such situations it is mainly normally a he said she said deal and there are indeed men behind bars on a woman word alone.

Perhaps that's because her testimony, as well as any supporting evidence, is more credible to the jury than the arguments presented by the defense. It's the jury's obligation to sort out what to believe.

In "he said/she said" situations, you overlook the obvious--she may be telling the truth and he isn't. And, when a jury votes to convict, they are rejecting the defendant's claim of innocence, and the conviction is rarely based on her "word alone"--it is generally supported by additional circumstantial evidence, and the testimony of other witnesses. You ought to try reading the news stories about rape trials--you might learn something about the reality of what goes on in our courtrooms.

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@BillRM,

There's cases of people doing all sorts of things, doesn't mean it's anything other than an isolated problem. You shy away from actual figures and statistical evidence because the truth is that considerably more rapes go unreported or uninvestigated than the miniscule amount men of imprisoned for false rape. You would have us believe the opposite were true, it would be interesting to know why you're so paranoid about something most of us barely think about.

Just because a woman changes her story doesn't mean she wasn't raped, she could have been put under pressure to change her story, or may have learned to forgive her attacker, or think he's been punished enough.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

There's cases of people doing all sorts of things, doesn't mean it's anything other than an isolated problem. You shy away from actual figures and statistical evidence because the truth is that considerably more rapes go unreported or uninvestigated than the miniscule amount men of imprisoned for false rape.

Yes dear and as far as non-strangers rape/sexual assault charges I and others here had posted links and information on large scale scientific studies that placed that so call isolated problem as anywhere from 25 percents to nearly 50 percents of all such charges.

When the police does their job of filtering out such large numbers of unfounded charges the like of you and Firefly attacked them for not taking rapes seriously enough.

An reported rapes is at well over a three decades low at the same time that phony surveys are claiming college women are being assaulted in massive numbers.

In other word you and firefly are full of bullshit.

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@BillRM,

Paranoid nonsense. You've a track record of posting alarmist claptrap from dubious sources, and I would never take your word on the 'science' of any so called scientific studies.

You're the one full of bullshit when you come out with this feminist conspiracy paranoia.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Paranoid nonsense.

Only an idiot with no knowledge of history would go unalarmed at charge shopping, over charging, pre determining how many people should be charged, targeting particular groups of citizens, at seeing the laws written vaguely on purpose, putting on max pressure to obtain admissions of guilt.

What you call paranoia I call sound common sense.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Yes dear and as far as non-strangers rape/sexual assault charges I and others here had posted links and information on large scale scientific studies that placed that so call isolated problem as anywhere from 25 percents to nearly 50 percents of all such charges.

The statistics you have posted, some from studies that have been widely criticized in the literature, do, in fact, include sexual assaults/rapes by strangers as well as by acquaintances, and you selectively omit the studies that show a false report rate as low as 2--3%.

You're trying to promote an agenda that female accusers should not be believed, they should always be regarded as suspect, rather than trying to look at this issue in any balanced way.

One of the most recent studies, found the prevalence of false reporting, of sexual assaults, by college students, to be 2--10%.

Quote:

False Allegations of Sexual Assualt: An Analysis of Ten Years of Reported Cases

Abstract

One of the most controversial disputes affecting the discourse related to violence against women is the dispute about the frequency of false allegations of sexual assault. In an effort to add clarity to the discourse, published research on false allegations is critiqued, and the results of a new study described. All cases (N = 136) of sexual assault reported to a major Northeastern university over a 10-year period are analyzed to determine the percentage of false allegations. Of the 136 cases of sexual assault reported over the 10-year period, 8 (5.9%) are coded as false allegations. These results, taken in the context of an examination of previous research, indicate that the prevalence of false allegations is between 2% and 10%.

http://vaw.sagepub.com/content/16/12/1318.abstract

So, just as a very small percentage (about 7%) of men account for most of the rapes, a similarly very small percentage of female claimants account for the false reports.

No one denies that some sexual assault/rape reports might be false, or that such false reports can be very damaging to those accused. But, just as most men should not be regarded as rapists, most women should not be regarded as malicious liars.

When someone files a sexual assault/rape claim, it's veracity should not immediately be doubted--it should be properly investigated to see if it can be substantiated and pursued. And even if sufficient evidence cannot be obtained, to support a prosecution, or college judicial process, as is sometimes the case, this does not indicate that the claim is false. Only if the claim can be clearly disproved, or if the claimant admits to lying, should the allegation be regarded as false.

No one in their right mind, which seems to clearly exclude you, would place the rate of any false allegation problem on a par with the prevalence of the sexual assault/rape problem--there is overwhelming agreement, by experts in this area, that there are far far more crimes of sexual assault/rape being committed than there are false reports of them. And the college professors who reported a prevalence of 2--10% for false reports, in their findings I just posted, are among those experts.

Quote:

An reported rapes is at well over a three decades low at the same time that phony surveys are claiming college women are being assaulted in massive numbers..

Trying to dismiss all survey results you don't agree with as being "phony" is so ignorant, and childishly petulant, it doesn't even deserve a response.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

targeting particular groups of citizens

The government is not targeting groups of citizens--the reality is that the overwhelming number of sexual assaults/rapes are committed against females, and the overwhelming number of perpetrators are male. That's reality.

The overwhelming number of burglaries are also committed by men. Do you think all of the burglary laws are also "anti-male"? Is the government unfairly targeting men when they arrest them and charge them with burglary?

Quote:

What you call paranoia I call sound common sense.

No, I don't think you are drawing "common sense" conclusions on this issue, anymore than your conclusions about the view count on this thread reflected common sense.

You are paranoid. You see anti-male conspiracies rather than an attempt to deal with a crime problem which is mainly perpetrated by men. And you further try to deny that the crimes are even going on by asserting "There is almost no sexual assault of women by men"--an assertion that's devoid of any basis in reality. You're presenting delusions, not ideas.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

the reality is that the overwhelming number of sexual assaults/rapes are committed against females,

that has been disproven at multiple points in this thread. The latest link was this one

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

Quote:

In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men.

So when is the state going to launch special programs to put female sexual criminals into the justice system? Fair is fair right?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

It's interesting you choose to believe that sexual assults/rapes are going on when they report male victims, but you deny the existence of the crime when it involves female victims. Not that your hypocrisy is evident and rather glaring. Laughing

Quote:

So when is the state going to launch special programs to put female sexual wrong criminals into the justice system? Fair is fair right?

They do arrest and convict females for sexual assault. As they should when they violate the laws. And all victims of sexual assault are being encouraged to report such assaults--that includes the male victims. No action can be taken unless someone reports a sexual assault/rape. Victim support services are also available to males, as well as females.

You opposed the changes in the laws so they would better protect men, you're branding the efforts to get crimes of sexual assault/rape better reported as some sort of unsubstantiated witch hunt, and you're trying to insist that all claimants should be regarded with suspicion. That discourages male victims from reporting, just as it discourages females from reporting. Your attitudes are part of what makes the situation more difficult for male victims of sexual assault/rape.

1 Reply

According to Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, regarding campus sexual assaults/rape:

Quote:

Part of the problem is a pure lack of understanding of the true nature of campus sexual assault. These are not dates gone bad, or a good guy who had too much to drink. This is a crime largely perpetrated by repeat offenders, who instead of facing a prosecutor and a jail cell, remain on campus after a short-term suspension, if punished at all. [...]

As a first step [to increase reporting rates], I teamed up with Missouri Senator Claire McCaskill, a former sex crimes prosecutor and powerful voice for victims, to secure the resources we need to investigate more cases, and enforce the laws we have. As it stands today, the federal agencies in charge of enforcing campus sex assault laws are left to a fraction of the funding and staff needed to be effective. And without the right oversight, nearly two-thirds of schools are failing to even report crime statistics as they are required to by current law.
http://www.salon.com/2014/05/15/the_good_the_bad_and_the_ugly_in_that_time_magazine_feature_on_campus_sexual_assault/

1 Reply

@firefly,

Biden talks for 20+ minutes a couple of weeks ago, ONLY ONCE does he mention males as sexual victims ( watch it, he almost forgot to do the proforma admission that men are victims), not once does he ask for women to understand consent and to be clear about their desires. The entire thing is about how men allegedly suck.

the current PSA does not mention men as victims at all, it is all about men abusing women

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@firefly,

Quote:

Part of the problem is a pure lack of understanding of the true nature of campus sexual assault. These are not dates gone bad, or a good guy who had too much to drink.

" we dont know what is going on, in fact we need to have a special fact finding mission to find out what is going on, but we know THAT is not going on!"

How do we know? Because that would mean that men dont suck, and we cant have that.

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@hawkeye10,

Another thing that is of great interest to me is that I know that girl on girl sex is big on campus now, so how many of these sexual assaults against women are done by women, for instance in sorority hazing incidents?

You wont find the answer anywhere, nor will you find anyone in power wanting to know, because THAT would go against the agenda of the feminists who control the government run sexual regulation of the masses. It is so much cleaner to assume that men did it, or at least to leave that impression. We cant have Biden standing up on stage crying while imploring men to be on the watch for women abusing other women, saying that if they hear of such they simply must be real men and do something about it, No, No, No,...that would never do.

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@hawkeye10,

Oh, they know what is going on, in terms of the nature of the sexual assaults/rapes going on on campuses, there is plenty of research on that score. They just need more comprehensive estimates, from all campuses in the nation, of numbers of cases and how they are handled, to compare with what the colleges are reporting in terms of crime rates on their campuses, and their response to them. That's why they will do "climate surveys" among other things.

Quote:

" we dont know what is going on, in fact we need to have a special fact finding mission to find out what is going on, but we know THAT is not going on!"

How do we know? Because that would mean that men dont suck, and we cant have that.

Quote:

Another thing that is of great interest to me is that I know that girl on girl sex is big on campus now, so how many of these sexual assaults against women are done by women, for instance in sorority hazing incidents?

I don't know that any college sororities engage in sexual assaults as part of any hazing. Where on earth did you come up with that one.

You're confusing "girl on girl sex" with sexual assault. That lapse in logic is typical of you.

I'm sure that some of the sexual assaults that occur on campuses take place between lesbians or between gay males.

I'm bored with indulging your paranoid nonsense.

I hope you have an adequate supply of tin foil, Hawkeye.

http://www.howardforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84281&d=1345911106

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

I'm bored with indulging your paranoid nonsense.

That's fine, Feminist over-reach will continue to strengthen my arguments.

You know where to find me when you are ready to try again. The going is just going to get harder for you though.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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