25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 08:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
You've been complaining that the current effort, on the part of the Feds, to improve the reporting and disposition of sexual assaults, spells doom for men, it's an attempt to hang men, it's a feminist/government conspiracy out to get men etc.

Then you post the article about Yale that shows why things must be improved. Everyone agrees with the fact that these crimes are not being handled well now--for anyone involved, including those accused. That's why changes have to be made. You defeat your own position in opposing the attempt to make change.

And, you also previously posted a quote from Sen. Claire McCaskill complaining about the lack of conformity in terms, well now you understand her complaint, and why she wants that issue addressed.

Also, that article about Yale is somewhat misleading. All "non consensual sex" is not "rape"--not under state laws.
Quote:
In a footnote in a lengthy 2012 report on this new process, issued by deputy provost Stephanie Spangler, Yale conceded that the university uses "a more expansive definition of sexual assault than is commonly understood."

Does Spangler mean as "commonly understood" in the general public, who might be limited in what they understand, or as "commonly understood" under Connecticut state law regarding sexual assault?

There are many different types of crimes listed in state law regarding sexual assaults--and all involve non-consent--and they do go beyond rape, and are not limited to rape, particularly when "rape" is defined as penetration of a vagina by a penis. The law has to cover other types of assaults, involving other body parts and bodily openings, and involving objects being inserted into bodily openings, etc.--because it must be applicable to male/male and female/female sexual assaults, and not just male/female sexual assaults. And a college has to consider those other types of sexual assaults as well, including unwanted fondling, groping, etc..

So it seems that the author of that article is the one who is erring in assuming that "nonconsensual sex" should only be limited to "rape" or is only describing "rape". The law doesn't limit it that way, and a university shouldn't have to either.

Also, a college is able to define what they consider to be "student misconduct"--quite apart from what the laws define as criminal. They can set their own codes of conduct and demand conformity to those, particularly when it comes to one student harassing, threatening, stalking, pressuring, etc. another student. You hate the word, but they are trying to maintain "safety" that goes beyond just sexual assault. If they want to control "economic abuse" between students, why not? In statistics reporting however, they should separate actual crimes, from other things they might include in "student misconduct", and try to categorize the crimes accurately.
Quote:

Firefly will of course continue to insist that I am making everything up, as I sit with my tin foil hat. The things that I am concerned about happening under the new demands of the feminists/government cooperative are often already happening however

Nowhere did I see the word "feminist" in that article. It referred to "activists"--which seems a more accurate term.

And I see the current push from the government--from the White House, to the Senate, to measures being taken on state and local government levels--as efforts to improve the sexual assault/rape crime problem on campuses. The goal is to reduce that crime rate. To do that, the government has to do the sort of anonymous "climate surveys", with the somewhat open-ended questions you object to--they need to get a better sense of what's actually going on. Then then need to find ways of increasing reporting, and better ways of adjudicating the complaints. It's not all that different from what they are trying to do in the military regarding sexual assaults/rapes.

With all your complaining, and the things you are trying to point out, you aren't magically making the reality of sexual assaults/rapes disappear. They are still occurring, and they are damaging students, mainly female students. And that's the central issue here. Colleges just need better ways of dealing with it, and it has to be clearer when law enforcement should get involved.


hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 08:57 pm
@firefly,
Those of us who have been folowing Boomers Zero Tolerance thread are well aware the schools can and do throw students out for sub criminal infractions...all the more reason to be concerned when schools target certain groups of students, begging the snitches to report them.

This whole sensing effort is taking place because the zealots are not happy that more men are not turned in for punishment. I hope they leave some room on their questionnaire to ask why.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 09:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
The fanatics always assume that the reason women dont turn men in for punishment is because the women dont think the men will be beat hard enough.

Sometimes the reason is the opposite.

Females raised through zero tolorance schools have reason to not trust that the elders wont go bat **** crazy if they were provided with information.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 10:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This whole sensing effort is taking place because the zealots are not happy that more men are not turned in for punishment.


That's where your paranoia comes through. This isn't some conspiracy to ensnare all men.

And labeling those who do report as "snitches", as you do, helps to explain why more don't report.

They want more rapists and sexual offenders reported, both so they can be removed from the campus, and receive appropriate prosecution in the criminal justice system. Most men would not fall into that group.

Only about 7% of campus males commit most of the rapes/sexual assaults, according to the White House's recent report--but each individual in that 7% commits about 6 rapes. So, it's a relatively small number of men behaving that way, but they are the ones creating most of the problem, and increasing the numbers of rapes. And the reason they can commit serial rapes is because of low reporting rates, and the fact, that even when reported, they can manage to get away with it. Even if kicked off a campus, they just go elsewhere and rape. And, in many studies, where there is no fear of punishment, they admit to committing rape.

However, the more women that start reporting these serial predators, the more likely they are to be stopped. And that's also where the other men on campus, who are aware of this sort of thing, can intervene and can make a big difference in prevention, or apprehension. And encouraging them to intervene is going on on campuses. I read very recently about one young man who overheard several frat members planning on getting certain females very drunk at a party, for the purpose of being able to sexually assault/rape them. He went and posted what he heard on Facebook--as a warning to the females. You'd call him "a snitch". Why should people, like those frat members, be protected?

Why shouldn't other men intervene, to stop something they feel is inappropriate or harmful, that they see being done toward a female, in a dorm or at a party? Most men don't want females to be sexually assaulted/raped, and now they're being offered help and training in how to intervene, and they are using it. And women are learning how to intervene too, but it's really more meaningful when it's done by other men, for a number of reasons.

You just don't seem to even want to see the serial rapists and predators on campuses stopped and punished. You just don't care that people are being sexually assaulted/raped on college campuses.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 11:03 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They want more rapists and sexual offenders reported, both so they can be removed from the campus, and receive appropriate prosecution in the criminal justice system.


who is they? do you have any proof? This is what I mean by the assumption being made that the problem is that the bosses dont hit hard enough, lacking evidence for the assertion. Ask a young female if they want a " rapist" reported and locked up then yes, they will almost certainly say yes. Ask them if they want the guy they were with that night reported and locked up and you might get a different answer. Remember that we do have some studies that show that women who were legally abused tend to not believe that the law takes the proper stance on their particular experience , they will tend say they they played some part in what happened that night and that the guy was not totally wrong so the law which hold them blameless and intends to crucify the man is wrong .




The feminists/government cooperative is currently mouthing the mantra " we need to change the culture on campus", but it is not at all clear that they are not a major part of the problem. When the establishment devalues and disregards those it has labeled " victim" usually under the rationalization that it needs to save them ( which is almost totally bullshit by the way, as victims as always are the only ones who can save themselves, one can only help them), when the system thus reabuses those it is labeled victim IT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Quote:
However, the more women that start reporting these serial predators, the more likely they are to be stopped
sure, because these women are too weak and too stupid to look after themselves, men are so mean and powerful and all.....ya, I know the drill.

Quote:
You just don't seem to even want to see the serial rapists and predators on campuses stopped and punished. You just don't care that people are being sexually assaulted/raped on college campuses.
I want justice, something that you have never shown that you understand the definition of.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 12:12 am
Quote:
Q. I’m Not Being Abused!: My new husband and I enjoy very rough sex. Unfortunately—in spite of efforts to keep quiet—my 12-year-old daughter overheard us. I got called in for a private meeting with her teacher outside of school hours. She told me my daughter heard her stepfather slapping me and was extremely upset. I was completely taken aback, not to mention embarrassed beyond belief, and couldn’t think of anything other than mutter that I was fine and everything was fine at home. Of course, this only made the teacher believe I was trying to cover up the “abuse” and told me repeatedly she was there to help when I was ready. I know I can’t just let my daughter continue believing her mother is being abused, and I really don’t want this kind teacher to be concerned over a complete misunderstanding. However I just don’t know how to begin. Please help.

A: I’ve got to admire your daughter’s self-possession and crisis management skills; that was a very difficult decision for her to make. She must have considered going to you, but then concluded that if you were being abused, you likely you would cover up for your husband. So instead of squirming every night about what was going on in your bedroom, she went to a smart place for help. Now it’s time for an honest, if succinct, conversation with your daughter. You should praise her for her concern for you and for making a tough choice. Tell her that you were surprised and embarrassed at the meeting—which is not her fault!—so you weren’t as articulate as you wished you had been. Say that you understand what she heard worried her, and it’s your responsibility for not being more discreet. But explain to her that everything that is going on is totally consensual, you love her stepfather, and you are not being hurt in any way. Tell her that now that you’ve aired this, you hope she will feel free to come to you with anything that worries her. You then can call the teacher and say that because you were taken aback at the meeting you were not as articulate as would have liked, but suffice it to say everything that’s going on in your home is between consenting adults and your daughter now understands that. Then get some sound-proofing, or a sound machine for when you and your husband have noisy nocturnal pleasures.


Scary times......the state has convinced our own kids to snitch on us. That STASI operations manual has sure turned into a goldmine for our police state!

I am not wanting to think what happens when the state decides that it wants to believe the snitches over us. Months of monitoring our communications and homes will become the norm. Hopefully we will be able to eventually prove our innocence.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 12:30 am
@hawkeye10,
Stasi: There can be no privacy, the safety of the state demands it!

America: There can be no privacy, the safety of the victims demands it!





There is not a whole lot of light between these assertions.


The state however can keep as many secrets as it wants, like for instance when it is using the Constitution for toilet paper. The American people are chumps, we tolerate our own abuse at the hands of the state.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 07:47 am
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye there had indeed been cases where the police was called in by third parties such as neighbors and after arriving had seem marks and other indications of abused and against the express wishes of both parties have taken one of the couple off to jail.

It is dangerous to be into rough consensus sex in the US as women are children and the state need to protected them from themselves and courts had ruled that you can not grant consent to be harm unless you are in a lic boxing ring or such.

BDSM couples are now in the same boat as gays used to be as their sexual conduct is illegal and can result in arrests on such charges as domestic violence if the police for whatever reason become aware of it.

If the daughter in your posting had called 911 instead of talking to a teacher there is a damn good chance that the woman would have her husband charge with domestic violence and court order not to even talk to her for months on end.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 10:13 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The American people are chumps, we tolerate our own abuse at the hands of the state.

More hot air posturing and pontificating on your part, that completely dodges the issue of this topic.

The American people, on the contrary, are not chumps--they are unwilling to tolerate the abuse of one person by another.

And that doesn't matter if the "abuse" is financial fraud, someone breaking into and entering your home, the unlawful taking of one's property, or sexual assault/rape--they all involve actions being done without consent, which is what makes them abusive . There is nothing unique to sexual assault law, in that regard, when it hinges on consent.

Many years ago, my home was burglarized, and the burglar was immediately apprehended, before I was even aware the crime had occurred. The police subsequently came to my home to gather evidence and take my statement, and the absolute first thing they asked me was, "Did this individual have your consent to enter your home?" "Did he have consent to remove property from your home?" Why did they ask me this? Because it was only my consent, or, more accurately, the lack of it, that made his acts a crime. And the same is true with regard to sexual assault/rape--it's the lack of consent that makes the action of sexual intercourse between adults, which would otherwise be legal, criminal.

So all your windbag nonsense that all the sexual assault laws, and their enforcement, is "anti-sex" and "anti-men" overlooks the central issue that the purpose of these laws is to prevent certain things being done to an individual without their consent. And, while the rape laws were originally written and worded to define only acts done to a female by a male, huge progress has been made in now having more sufficiently worded laws, so they better cover and protect men who are the victims of sexual assaults, and better help to deter such assaults against men--and you opposed those changes being made. Your alleged interest in the welfare of men is exposed to be a quite phony interest when you don't want to see men equally protected by the sexual assault laws.
Quote:
Stasi: There can be no privacy, the safety of the state demands it!

America: There can be no privacy, the safety of the victims demands it!

More accurately, there should be no expectation of privacy when it comes to the concealing of crimes. Those you deem "snitches" are acting responsibly when they report crimes committed against themselves, or possible crimes they have witnessed being done to others. And the government, or colleges, are not acting abusively by simply investigating such crime reports, or by handing out punishments when those are found to be justified, as long as all appropriate standards of due process are maintained.

Yes, preventing sexual assault/rape, and taking action against offenders, is a matter of "safety"--public safety, campus safety--physical safety--and most people do value safety just as much as they value their personal privacy. That you completely dismiss the notion of "safety" is where you significantly depart from the norm.


0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 11:14 am
Quote:
May 21, 2014
College stats on rape are unbelievable
by Shawn Vestal

...Now hanging over the heads of both Washington State University and the University of Idaho are federal investigations into whether the schools properly handled complaints of sexual assault. The schools were among 55 colleges and universities nationwide that were identified as the subjects of investigation; the probes are tied to the obligations of universities under Title IX, which prohibits gender discrimination at schools that receive federal money.

No conclusion of wrongdoing has been reached in either case. WSU issued a statement emphasizing that it has cooperated with federal investigators, and saying, “WSU takes its Title IX obligations very seriously and does not tolerate any form of sexual harassment, sexual assault, or other sexual misconduct.”

At the end of the day, the feds may or may not agree. But even if all 55 of these schools somehow turn out to be innocent, there is a deeper issue underlying the way universities track sex crimes: The official statistics for rape on campuses are so low as to be unbelievable. This is true for all efforts to quantify the frequency of rape, from Spokane Police Department figures to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, given that experts believe most rapes are never reported. But the college figures are strikingly low, and it is these official statistics – the reporting that universities are required to do under the Clery Act – that provides what information parents and students can get about the security of their schools.

WSU’s statistics for 2012 show 10 reports of forcible sexual assault. Presumably, no one at WSU would argue that 10 is a full and complete picture of the forcible sexual assaults in and around campus for 2012. Still, that’s the picture that’s available.

There are roughly 11,000 women students on the Pullman campus. The university’s Clery Act statistics indicate that less than .001 percent of them were raped.

One rape is deplorable, of course, and no number of them could be low enough. But the WSU figures exist in such astounding contrast to what is known about sexual assault that if they were true, they would suggest that Washington State has made more progress on this crime than any human organization in history.

Unless you count the University of Idaho, where the Clery-reported statistics show that there were three forcible sexual assaults reported in 2012. Eastern Washington University reported the same number. Three. Gonzaga logged eight. Whitworth had zero three years running.

It’s clear why rape experts scoff at university stats, even if exact and reliable figures for the crime are difficult to come by. Surveys consistently report that a lot of women report being sexually assaulted in college, usually by someone they know. One survey puts the figure at 11.5 percent, another pegs it at 13.5 percent, some reach 20 percent.

Here is the way that one survey, a 2002 report titled “Acquaintance Rape of College Students” for the Center for Problem-Oriented Policing, summarized the reporting gap:

“Fewer than 5 percent of college women who are victims of rape or attempted rape report it to police. However, about two-thirds of the victims tell someone, often a friend (but usually not a family member or college official). In one study, over 40 percent of those raped who did not report the incident said they did not do so because they feared reprisal by the assailant or others. In addition, some rape victims may fear the emotional trauma of the legal process itself. Low reporting, however, ensures that few victims receive adequate help, most offenders are neither confronted nor prosecuted, and colleges are left in the dark about the extent of the problem.”

The same report cited survey results suggesting that a college with 10,000 women students might plausibly have 350 rapes per year, dryly noting: “This conflicts with official college data.”

The reasons this crime remains so stubbornly hidden are deep and complex and many. They arise from a host of flawed assumptions and cultural biases that minimize rape, that allow dude-bro boorishness about sex crimes to be laughed off, that produce systemic obstacles to the prosecution of rape, especially if the rapist is a football player. A whole culture that might produce, say, an ignorant ass of a bar owner who jokingly names a drink after date rape. All of which sends a clear but unfortunate message to young women about just how seriously we do not take this.

The message is getting through: Surveys repeatedly show that many young women think, for example, that it wasn’t rape if they were drunk.

Ha ha, Date Grape Kool-Aid.


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/may/21/college-stats-on-rape-are-unbelievable/
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 06:34 pm
Newsweek has a great story about the politics and profits of lying about female sexual abuse at the hands of men. The most outrageous lies about mean men are believed, because in these times that is what we want to believe. This is the age of glorifying victims, and the saints who save them, but a victim needs a corresponding abuser. Somebody must be fitted for the role.

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/05/30/somaly-mam-holy-saint-and-sinner-sex-trafficking-251642.html

Quote:


Why does everybody keep quiet about everything?” Blase asks. “I think it’s very hard to accept that a woman who is in a nurturing position, which she sort of is, has the capacity to be the way Somaly is.… People keep their mouths shut because it’s in their own self-interest to do so.”

Daniela Papi, founder of PEPY, an organization that promotes education and youth leadership, argues that those doing heroic aid work become immune to criticism. “Most people want to believe that people are good,” she says. “We see this hero and we buy into the hero, and actually the person we are defending is ourselves. It’s not them anymore, it’s yourself for being duped.”

According to a close acquaintance of Mam’s in Phnom Penh, who insisted on remaining anonymous for fear of retribution, there have been doubts about Mam’s life story for years, but “it’s all about image, getting to the big shot who has a lot of money and who feels sorry for this kind of story. They’re very successful, and they have been very successful in an incredible way because they connect with the right people, and they have all the movie stars, famous rock stars and famous people supporting them, and [all those people] are still being taken for a ride now.”


These people think that they are doing God's work and if lies are told and if some innocents get hurt along the way, well that us just a little collateral damage that cant be helped.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 06:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
A comment on the Newsweek page:

Quote:
I am blown away that newsweek would waste two years and unknown money investigating a women who by all accounts is making a substantial difference in the lives of countless exposed children and women. You have done nothing to help children who are victims of human trafficking, instead funding and attention will now focus on investigating these allegations. There are so many bugger issues in the ever expanding area of human trafficking that you could have shed light on but you choose to investigate a women who has changed so many lives for the better. I don;t know if she is being completely true about her past and I don;t care, the difference she makes in the world is massive. Newsweek, what did you accomplish with this article?


So long as God's work gets done who cares about everything else...

Civilization has clearly digressed about 500 years.

We used to be better.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 08:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
It isn't exactly like Somaly was trying to promote an imaginary problem, or that sex-trafficking or sexual abuse of females doesn't go on globally, because it does, so I don't see "outrageous lies" in that regard.

She seems to have fabricated her own backstory to draw attention to her cause and hype fundraising, so mainly she made herself out to be more of a survivor/victim than she was. And, like a lot of other charities, she may have used children to help get money flowing in. But is she misusing money donated to her cause, are donor's funds not going to support the things they thought they would? That doesn't seem to be the case, not from that article anyway. She's just not as saintly as she pretends to be, but that article doesn't seem to be suggesting her non-profit operation is a fraud, even if her manufactured image is.

Speaking of female abuse, at the hands of men, almost 300 girls in Nigeria are still missing since being kidnapped from their school last month--with threats they would be sold into slavery. Why were they taken? Because their Islamic extremist captors don't believe women should be educated, they should be at home raising children. The U.S. is about to send a drone and ground troops to help search for and rescue them.
Quote:
The most outrageous lies about mean men are believed, because in these times that is what we want to believe.

Sometimes the most outrageous things men do to females are not "outrageous lies"--the truth, unfortunately, is often more outrageous than any lies. And, this kidnapping situation in Nigeria is an example of that.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 09:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It isn't exactly like Somaly was trying to promote an imaginary problem, or that sex-trafficking or sexual abuse of females doesn't go on globally, because it does, so I don't see "outrageous lies" in that regard.


She purchases kids to act as victims, and she demands that her staff spread the fabrications, it is more than her making up a life story for herself. And she has gotten away with it for years, and has become highly respected and promoted because she is selling what victim culture conditioned masses want to buy. Almost no one has any interest in exposing the scams of the victim culture advocates, neither honest advocates, what remains of the journalists, nor of course the deeply corrupted and guilty itself government.

I know that you dont agree with me that this alleged "rape crisis" on campus and off is a fabrication promoted by a victim services industry that is always chasing funding so that they can stay employed, or that our government is in league with the scam because it is desperate for an argument that we need it as it continues to **** us over and rob us as part of its partnership with the ruling class that has corrupted it. But just look at how the events pile up in the favor of my argument!

There is a sucker born every minute, but most people dont stay stupid forever. Eventually "SAFETY!" will no longer work as a all purpose cover for general abuse and theft.


EDIT: I am deeply shocked that Newsweek anymore even has the capacity for investigative journalism. I had long ago given them up for dead. CONGRATS!
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 11:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
And she has gotten away with it for years, and has become highly respected and promoted because she is selling what victim culture conditioned masses want to buy. Almost no one has any interest in exposing the scams of the victim culture advocates...

Hawkeye, you're reading into that article on Somaly what you want to see, to bolster your preconceived ideas, and you're distorting the information..

The author is contending that she's a phony, in terms of the image she's created for herself, and sometimes in her fund-raising tactics. He is not asserting she's running a scam operation in terms of the charities/organizations she's connected to, or that those organizations are fraudulent, or that the millions of dollars this woman has raised have been distributed inappropriately, or been misused, or that they aren't going to aid victims of sex-trafficking or sexual abuse.

You're reacting as though there really aren't victims of sex abuse or sex trafficking, that she's raising money for a scam cause. But that's not what that article says. The author is only going after her for what he claims is her phony manufactured public image, and some of her fund-raising tactics, and while those things may help to suck in some donors, obviously a legitimate cause is also why big names support her--and she has raised a considerable amount of money for that cause. The issue seems to be, do the ends justify the means if less than honest tactics are used to raise money for worthwhile causes?
Quote:
I know that you dont agree with me that this alleged "rape crisis" on campus and off is a fabrication promoted by a victim services industry that is always chasing funding so that they can stay employed, or that our government is in league with the scam because it is desperate for an argument that we need it as it continues to **** us over and rob us as part of its partnership with the ruling class that has corrupted it. But just look at how the events pile up in the favor of my argument!

You're right, I don't agree with you that this "rape crisis" is a fabrication. I'm not sure I'd call it a "crisis" but I think it's an urgent, and pressing, crime problem that's not being adequately addressed on campuses, just as it wasn't being adequately addressed in the military.

The sexual assaults going on are not a fabrication. This is not a mass delusion perpetrated by the "victim services industry" and you're not helping men by trying to engage in that kind of denial. The problem is perpetuated largely by a small group of men who are predators, and who are serial rapists, committing about 6 rapes each. That's what drives up the numbers. That's why more reporting is necessary, because that small group keeps repeating their offenses, and getting away with it.

Most men are not sexually assaulting women, and no one is saying that is the case. But men can help to get the problem under control, which is why their help is actively solicited on campuses now--men have to be as "anti-rape" as the female activists on campus, they have to be just as committed as the females to trying to stop sexual assaults/rapes, rather than just being bystanders. This isn't just a "woman's issue".

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 May, 2014 11:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He is not asserting she's running a scam operation in terms of the charities/organizations she's connected to


RIIIIGHHHT....


Quote:
Another of Mam’s biggest “stars” was Meas Ratha, who as a teenager gave a chilling performance on French television in 1998, describing how she had been sold to a brothel and held against her will as a sex slave.

Late last year, Ratha finally confessed that her story was fabricated and carefully rehearsed for the cameras under Mam’s instruction, and only after she was chosen from a group of girls who had been put through an audition. Now in her early 30s and living a modest life on the outskirts of Phnom Penh, Ratha says she reluctantly allowed herself to be depicted as a child prostitute: “Somaly said that…if I want to help another woman I have to do [the interview] very well.


Quote:
Most men are not sexually assaulting women,

My assertion is that almost no men are sexually assaulting women, that the assertion that this is a problem is wholly a make work program for the victim savior industry.

Quote:
But men can help to get the problem under control, which is why their help is actively solicited on campuses now--men have to be as "anti-rape" as the female activists on campus


are men ( and women) going to be encouraged to speak up when a woman obviously tipsy goes for yet another drink, telling her that maybe this is not such a great idea? Wake me when the answer is yes, cause till then I will continue in my belief that the purpose of the entire scheme is to keep the nice grasp on mens balls.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 12:03 am
Hawkeye, if you believe that "almost no men are sexually assaulting women", you're just plain nuts.

This former NFL player is currently accused of being a serial predator/rapist...the complaints are from 9 women in several states, and their accounts are all very similar.
Quote:
Ex-N.F.L. Star Who Spoke Out for Women Is Accused of Being a Rapist
MAY 15, 2014

Darren Sharper, a former N.F.L. standout who won a Super Bowl with the New Orleans Saints, posed with his teenage daughter, his deep dimples framing his wide, bright white smile, her head leaning on his shoulder.

The photograph was in the 2010 book “NFL Dads Dedicated to Daughters,” compiled to promote “thoughtful discussion about making the world a safer place for all women.”

On Page 90, Sharper wrote: “My daughter makes me mindful of how women are treated, undervalued and exploited.” He instructed men to “deal with women respectfully, honorably and fairly at all times.”

Now, four years later, Sharper is scheduled on Friday to be in a courtroom in California, one of five states where he is facing accusations of sexual assault. Since retiring from football in 2011, Sharper has been accused of being a serial rapist, drugging and assaulting nine women in California, Arizona, Nevada, Louisiana and Florida.

He has been formally charged in Maricopa County, Ariz., and Los Angeles, where he has been in jail without the possibility of bail since February. Having shined in his 14-year career with the Green Bay Packers, the Minnesota Vikings and the Saints, he will have an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs as his uniform Friday.

Blair Berk, his lawyer in California, declined to comment on Sharper’s legal problems. Nandi Campbell, one of his lawyers in New Orleans, said on Thursday that the public would be surprised when it learned the real facts of the cases.

“There has been an assumption made,” she said. “Because there are multiple states involved, people think he must be guilty. But it’s important that the public doesn’t jump to that conclusion.”

Although there is an arrest warrant out for Sharper in New Orleans because he has been accused of two counts of aggravated rape — charges that could lead to life imprisonment — Campbell said the public must realize that he has yet to be charged with any crimes there.

Perhaps not surprisingly, friends and colleagues struggle to fathom how the Darren Sharper in jail is the same one they thought they knew. LeRoy Butler, a friend of Sharper’s in the N.F.L., told The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, “This guy was like the chivalry days where you’d lay down a jacket so they could walk over the puddle.”

People who knew him from Hermitage High School in suburban Richmond, Va., told me that Sharper didn’t miss a day of school for three years, and was on the class council and in the foreign language club. He starred in football, basketball and track.

He came from a good family, with parents who told him that he couldn’t play sports if he didn’t keep his grades up. His father briefly played for the Kansas City Chiefs before becoming an administrator for the Henrico County school system in Virginia. His mother and sister run an in-home health care service for senior citizens. His brother, Jamie, also played football and won a Super Bowl with the Baltimore Ravens.

Sharper, 38, was not a dumb jock. He attended William & Mary, a strong academic university whose football team wasn’t Division I, because he wanted a good education.

Could anyone — including the N.F.L. — possibly have thought that Sharper would one day be accused of something so sinister?

A former All-Pro safety at 6 feet 2 inches and 210 pounds, Sharper played eight seasons for the Packers and four for the Vikings before finishing his career with the Saints.

At the end of the 2010 season, he led all active players with 63 interceptions and had been named to the N.F.L.’s All-Decade team. He was a possible Hall of Famer and was also known as a charmer. It seemed to be his destiny to transition smoothly into a new career after his official retirement from football in 2011. He took his charisma to NFL Network, where he worked as a television analyst.

The women who have accused him of drugging them and raping them might have been initially attracted to that public personality. But their perceptions changed after spending a night in his company.

Their accounts are detailed in court documents:

On Oct. 30, 2013, two women were partying at Bootsy Bellows, a West Hollywood nightclub, when they met Sharper through a mutual friend. Later, Sharper invited those women to a party and they all left the club together.

While in the cab to the party, Sharper told the women he had wanted to make a pit stop at his hotel suite “to pick up something.” The women obliged and accompanied Sharper to his suite. Soon after they walked through the door, Sharper mixed drinks for them, coaxing them to try a liqueur he called Coffee Patron, according to court documents. Within minutes, both women blacked out.

Several hours later, one woman woke up naked, with Sharper sexually assaulting her. The other woman woke up, too, and entered Sharper’s bedroom, interrupting the assault. They gathered their belongings and went home, only to wake up four hours later, remembering only portions of the night.

A little more than two months later, on Jan. 14, Sharper had returned to Bootsy Bellows for what the police said was a repeat performance. He met two women, and then invited them to another party. According to court documents, he asked them to stop at his hotel suite so he could pick up some narcotics.

They walked into the suite. Then came the shots of liquor. They blacked out.

Both women woke up several hours later on a pullout couch in the living room. One immediately felt as if she had been sexually assaulted. They left, but ended up sleeping three to four more hours before reporting the incident to the police. Again, their memories of the night were spotty. Neither had any recollection of what happened during the many hours after they drank the shots that Sharper had given them.

The next night, Sharper was in Las Vegas at a nightclub, and the script began from the first scene once again: He met two women, invited them and one of their male friends to his hotel room, where he said there would be a party. Shots. Blackouts.

One of the women awoke next to Sharper in bed and upon going to the bathroom discovered “visible injuries to her face she could not account for.” Sharper asked her how she was feeling because, he told her, she had vomited the night before. He then offered her sips of a beverage that would make her feel better. The next thing she remembered after taking those sips was Sharper’s sexually assaulting her. The woman still sleeping on the couch woke up and felt as if she too had been assaulted. The male friend regained consciousness when he was at a bar in the hotel lobby. He didn’t know how he got there.

In each rape accusation against Sharper, the accusers reported similar circumstances. Those women said Sharper, who is accused of drugging the women with a generic form of the sleep aid Ambien, left them guessing as to whether they had been raped at all.

One of his accusers was startled to find herself naked from the waist down. Another felt pain, burning and rawness in her vaginal area, though she hadn’t had consensual sex in several weeks. One was still so barely lucid that she couldn’t get out of bed to open the window for fresh air.

One of his accusers asked him, “Did we have sex last night?” His answer: “No.” Another asked, “What happened last night?” He said, “You tell me. What were we drinking? Did I throw up?”

Several of the women said they briefly became semiconscious during their drug-induced stupor to see a naked Sharper on top of them, sexually assaulting them, only to fade back into oblivion moments later.

Alice Vachss, the former chief of the Special Victims Unit of the Queens District Attorney’s office, said that it was common for rapists, as well as predators of children, to present themselves publicly like upstanding citizens who want to protect women or children while committing sex crimes against them.

“Whether he’s lying to himself, saying, ‘Oh, I’m not a rapist,’ I wouldn’t know,” Vachss said about criminals of this type generally. “But he is
enjoying the fact that he is getting one over on these women. That’s his predator’s pattern. Is it really ugly? Yes. It is very hard on victims because there’s a fundamental violation of trust. It’s very hard to come back from.”

Particularly when he was with the Saints, it was common to see Sharper at breast cancer awareness events, or at events like Football Camp for Her, which teaches women the rules of football and allows them to mingle with some pros. Sex crime experts say this might have been a way for him to gain trust of potential victims and then lure them into spending the night with him.

But Sharper wasn’t always that subtle. Two days after he was suspected of raping a woman in Los Angeles last fall, he posted a Twitter message promoting a Football Camp for Her: “get your tix! You will be touched in many ways.”

Serial rapists who drug women before assaulting them are often very good at what they do once they fine-tune their methods and find a drug that works for them, said Linda Fairstein, who for 26 years was chief of the sex crimes prosecution unit for the New York County District Attorney.

“When they develop an M.O., they usually stay with it and use it often,” she said. “These predators become very brazen about repeating their acts.”

Fairstein said that someone in a position like Sharper’s could have an edge on the women he is accused of raping from the very beginning. Those women might be afraid to report the rape, for fear of being judged for being drunk with a celebrity athlete.

“There is a tremendous underreporting because who would believe you?” she said, referring broadly to such cases. “He’s a big name. He’s a TV personality.” People might say, “You had too much to drink,” Fairstein said, and that fear of humiliation is powerful enough to keep a rape victim silent.

But now that several cases are in the public, more women might step forward to say Sharper had raped them, too, Fairstein and other sex crimes experts said.

That’s exactly what happened in one case, in Miami Beach. In mid-January, a woman had been watching the news on CBS when she heard that Sharper had been arrested on suspicion of rape. It jogged her memory of a night she spent with Sharper that fall, a night she said ended with her slurring her speech and falling asleep, only to wake up to Sharper’s sexually assaulting her.

Two days after she learned of his arrest in California, she felt emboldened. She said she filed a report with the Miami Beach Police Department, accusing Sharper of raping her, to clear her conscience.

Even if that woman’s account doesn’t result in criminal charges against Sharper, it and any other subsequent reports from other women might be used against him as evidence in the existing cases, Fairstein said.

“Some judges might let in that evidence, but only if the details are very, very similar,” she said.

So far, the existing cases are all somewhat similar. By most accounts from the accused, it seemed that Sharper had perfected his M.O.

Could there have been hints that Sharper was treating women this way? Were there rumors and eyewitnesses, as there were in the case of Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State assistant football coach who turned out to be a serial child molester? Were there people too afraid to speak out against him?

All we know for sure is that nine women have claimed that Sharper drugged and raped them from the fall of 2012 to Jan. 15. But sex crimes experts say this might just be a sliver of a criminal résumé.

“For the most part, I haven’t found that rape happens out of the blue for anybody,” said Vachss, the former Queens prosecutor. “The likelihood is that they have been doing it for years, but no police officer took it as a complaint.”

Tony Porter, a founder of A Call to Men, a violence prevention program that teaches men to be respectful of women and keep them safe, certainly didn’t expect Sharper to end up an accused serial rapist.

Porter has been a consultant to the N.F.L. for years, talking to teams and their players during mandatory life skills training about the importance of valuing women. He noticed how much the players connected with him when

Porter encouraged them to treat women how they would like their daughters to be treated. He wanted to find a way to get that message across to other men who might see the N.F.L. players as role models.

He settled on a book — “NFL Dads Dedicated to Daughters” — and brought the idea to the N.F.L. Players Association. The union ended up choosing 70 players, including Sharper, from the ones who had volunteered to be part of the project.

“Darren is possibly in trouble for doing some inappropriate behaviors, but those of us who want to see men do better understand that we cannot cast a shadow on every single man who was part of that book,” Porter said. “Most men are good men and would never perpetrate these kind of crimes, and I hope the public realizes that.”

Sharper is expected to be tried in California first, before any other cases. If convicted on all counts, he could spend more than 30 years in prison.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/sports/football/ex-nfl-star-who-spoke-out-for-women-is-accused-of-being-a-rapist.html?hpw&rref=sports&action=click&module=Search&region=searchResults&mabReward=relbias%3Ar%2C%5B%22RI%3A10%22%2C%22RI%3A12%22%5D&url=http%3A%2F%2Fquery.nytimes.com%2Fsearch%2Fsitesearch%2F%3Faction%3Dclick%26region%3DMasthead%26pgtype%3DHomepage%26module%3DSearchSubmit%26contentCollection%3DHomepage%26t%3Dqry470%23%2Frape%2F7days%2F
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 12:03 am
@hawkeye10,
What is chilling is the double standard...the entire legal theory of current sexual assault law rests on the argument that men assume risk when they get mixed up with a woman, and that they need to make sure that she is consenting (AKA is not drunk, really wants it...) yet when an under aged girl gets drunk she not only is held blameless for the breaking the law on drinking but she is held automatically blameless in any follow on sexual disputes.

Who the hell with a straight face can claim that this society is not biased against men?
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 12:11 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Who the hell with a straight face can claim that this society is not biased against men?


It's actually biased towards lengthy litigation cases.

Most rape cases I've read about, the victim is made to feel like a criminal, regardless of gender. And yes, lots of men get raped.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 May, 2014 12:15 am
@Builder,
Quote:
Most rape cases I've read about, the victim is made to feel like a criminal, regardless of gender. And yes, lots of men get raped.
So the accuser gets cross examined....BOO HOO!

You cant have justice without this step. If you just want to condemn people that is easy enough to do, the NAZIs wrote a great guidebook on the technique, let's just skip to that.
 

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