25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 12:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
"Everyone knows what consent is you dummy, and the laws have not changed".
Firefly.

"We can't even agree on what consent is"
Lead Senate expert on the subject.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 12:07 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You really are sick, quibbling over slight details. Just because he abused 12 yr olds instead of 11 yr olds doesn't make it right.


LOL who said having sex with a mid teen is right and not in most places illegal however it is not the same thing as an act of raping/having sex with a child that is not sexually mature.

Redefining words such as Pedophilia to made an illegal act sound even worst then it happen to be are being dishonest something you and firefly are damn good at..

Quote:


http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/pedophilia

Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children. Pedophiles are usually men, and can be attracted to either or both sexes.


You do not need to be a pedophile to find a fully mature nude body of a 16 years old as sexually attracted as a 18 years old nude body even if one is legal to have consensus sex with and the other is not.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 12:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
Everyone does know what consent is.

But, it's defined by state law--there are 50 states, each may have slightly different wording in their definition of consent in their sexual assault/rape laws, and the Feds are looking for conformity that can be applied in all 50 states that colleges and universities are located in.

That's one reason this might be better handled in the criminal justice system. And that way, the punishments would be better suited to the crime, and there would be a public record of a conviction that would follow the rapist. Just kicking a rapist out of one college, so he can go to another and rape some more, is absurd.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 12:41 pm
@firefly,
I have a lot of trouble believing that in todays climate that universitys will keep accusations of sexual assault that get guys thrown out private, or that other universities would even consider admitting them.

This is a system designed to ruin guys entire lives with one woman accusing them of wrong, and it will be considered wrong to question the veracity of the accusation, natch.

SCORE!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 01:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I have a lot of trouble believing that in todays climate that universitys will keep accusations of sexual assault that get guys thrown out private, or that other universities would even consider admitting them.


LOL is that something that Firefly is now trying to sell?

Can you just picture the civil liabilities that any education institution would assumed, if they would allowed anyone who was found guilt by, one of these kangaroo courts, of a serous sexual misdeed to become part of their student body!

Anyone found guilt can kiss their higher education careers goodbye.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 01:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
If the accusation of one woman isn't sufficient for you, do you want to wait until there is a group accusing a guy of sexual assault/rape before action is taken?

It's not really necessary to initially question the validity of the accusation--that's done by the subsequent investigation.

The reason this is all going on is because so many sexual assaults/rapes are occurring at colleges, and there are significant complaints about how these are currently handled. You do realize that, don't you? Those sexual assaults/rapes are also ruining people's lives--that's why action has to be taken.

You seem to be avoiding the basic fact that these measures are being considered to address a problem of crime on our college campuses. The goal is to reduce that crime rate, by increasing reporting, and improving adjudication procedures.

And, with these particular crimes, most of the victims are female, and most of the perpetrators are male. That's reality, no matter how hard you try to dodge that fact.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 01:30 pm
Quote:
Tuesday, May 20, 2014
Time to get serious about sexual assault on college campuses

By MARY SANCHEZ
The Kansas City Star

If there were a medal of valor for members of Congress, Sens. Claire McCaskill and Kirsten Gillibrand would deserve it for their success in reforming the U.S. military. Thanks largely to their efforts, the armed services must radically change the way they investigate and prosecute sexual assault.

The senators dissected the chain of command, examined policies and procedures, and tackled a culture that was more inclined to protect accused sexual predators than to protect and vindicate the victims, who were usually female.

More than 30 new provisions are now in law. It is now a crime for a member of the military to retaliate against someone filing a complaint. Commanders may no longer overturn convictions. Dishonorable discharge is the very least that happens after a member of the military is convicted of sexual assault. The changes are monumental.

Now McCaskill and Gillibrand have turned their attention a scene where sexual assault is just as egregious and indulged with similar laxity by officials: college campuses.

This time, the sacred cows are fraternity row, university athletic departments and institutional prestige. Also at play are the public’s attitudes about young people, alcohol and sexual violence.

Much like the military, colleges and universities all too often react to sexual assault first and foremost to shield the institution, not to help the victims. A common complaint is that, when allegations are made, college officials hesitate to investigate or try to dissuade victims from filing criminal complaints. The senators aim to get campuses to increase reporting and change the ways they respond to sexual assault.

One in five women will be sexually assaulted while in college, according to “The Campus Sexual Assault Study,” a 2007 study conducted for the Justice Department’s National Institute of Justice. The statistic by itself is an argument starter. Cite it and you’ll be accused of crusading against young men and of excusing the unladylike drinking of female coeds.

True, a drunk young woman is more gullible than a sober one. She can be counted on to make unwise choices. But that doesn’t mean she’s fair game to be assaulted.

What many don’t realize is that colleges and universities receiving federal funding are required by law to provide a safe campus for everyone, regardless of gender. And when they allow an administrative process that is barely a scolding to suffice, they permit attacks to carry on.

Studies cited by The White House Council on Women and Girls indicate that college attacks are often by serial offenders who use alcohol as a weapon to incapacitate their female victims. A 2002 study found that 7 percent of college men admitted to committing rape or attempted rape and 63 percent of these men admitted to committing multiple offenses, averaging six rapes each.

The study raises the question of whether predatory young men are emboldened by the fact that so many cases aren’t reported.

Mandated reporting of incidents is lax, federal staff to force cooperation isn’t sufficient, and too much confusion exists within university staff of their obligations under laws of equality such as the Title IX and the Clery Act.

The senators recognize these complications. Giving universities the incentive to do better is their goal.

To start, Sen. McCaskill sent surveys to 450 universities and colleges around the country, asking for input. She promised confidentiality and inquired about current practices.

Red flags went up immediately. So much so, that the American Council on Education, made available a free webinar to counsel campuses on how to answer. McCaskill wasn’t pleased and accused the council of helping colleges to dodge.

Yet nearly 200 colleges have returned their surveys, the senator’s office reports.

The senators also have the firm backing of the administration. The U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights in May released a list of 55 universities under investigation for violations in their handling of sexual violence and harassment complaints under Title IX.

College should be the launching pad to a solid, successful adult life. But nearly adult is not adult. And the trauma of abuse, especially mishandled, can lead to depression, drugs and alcohol to cope, or to dropping out of school.

For decades, universities have been sloughing off the dusty old responsibility of “in loco parentis.” Very well, but they have to live up to real responsibility — legal liability — before the scourge of sexual assault is under control.
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/16/5028183/senators-mccaskill-and-gillibrand.html
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 01:52 pm
@firefly,
Is this more of that " if it saves one life!" Crap....any amount of harm, abuse or unfairness so long as we can point to one life that was saved?

No, the accusation of one woman is not enough for me to justify the railroading of an american citizen. Nor is the accusation of ten women. I need evidence, arguments, and a smart fair judge to run the proceedings.

How many times have I been accused of stuff at A2K that there was zero chance the speaker was in a position to conclusively know? Hundreds maybe? People are human, and humans lie, for lots of reasons and often.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 02:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
Then you want this handled in the criminal justice system.

That's good--then the convicted rapist will likely do jail time, rather than the absurdly inadequate punishment of just getting kicked off campus, and the conviction will be a matter of public record, that will follow him everywhere.

And the possible consequence of much harsher punishment in the criminal justice system, and the fact that all proceedings will be public, may well help to reduce the rate of sexual assaults/rapes on campuses.
Quote:
People are human, and humans lie, for lots of reasons and often.

And some of those who lie are rapists, who say, "It was consensual", while knowing full well it was not.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 02:41 pm
@firefly,
Rapists should go to jail. Where this idiotic system is going to go is a guy left with $20,000 of debt, noting to show for it, deprived of a degree for life, with a huge timetime problem to explain at a job interview, all because he patted a girl on the ass at a party when he was at university.

You watch.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 03:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Stop trying to trivialize rape.

This really isn't about a "pat on the ass at a party."

Yesterday, I read about one botched university sexual assault/rape case where the woman had reported being forcibly anally raped. That's considerably more than "a pat on the ass" and the university had discouraged her from reporting it to the police.

There are very real crimes of sexual assault/rape going on at colleges, and your only interest seems to be in trying to deny or minimize these crimes. Most people. including a lot of men, want to see this crime rate decreased.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 03:36 pm
@firefly,
That would be a good thing if it were done in conjunction with treating men fairly.

Not going to happen. The feminists will keep their hands around the balls of men, and will keep squeezing, for every minute they can get away with it.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 03:40 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
all because he patted a girl on the ass at a party when he was at university.


That is assuming he is even guilty of that level of offense or any offense at all for that matter as those panels or whatever they are calling them is hardly design to search out the truth of any charges or granting the accuser any real chance to defend himself.

If I was the one force by the Federal government to set up such panels as a minimum I would get the law school to run it with people that at least have a clue of what is fair or not.

Sadly my bet is that law professors would not however wish to come near this process.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 03:52 pm
I agree with this blogger, Rebecca Solnit

Feminism Has Just Started—There's No Stopping It Now
Ideas don't go back in the box once they are out—no matter what conservatives say.


Quote:
Homophobia, like misogyny, is still terrible, just not as terrible as it was in, say, 1970. Finding ways to appreciate advances without embracing complacency is a delicate task. It involves being hopeful and motivated and keeping eyes on the prize ahead. Saying that everything is fine or that it will never get any better are ways of going nowhere or of making it impossible to go anywhere. Either approach implies that there is no road out or that, if there is, you don’t need to or can’t go down it. You can. We have.

We have so much further to go, but looking back at how far we’ve come can be encouraging. Domestic violence was mostly invisible and unpunished until a heroic effort by feminists to out it and crack down on it a few decades ago. Though it now generates a significant percentage of the calls to police, enforcement has been crummy in most places -- but the ideas that a husband has the right to beat his wife and that it’s a private matter are not returning anytime soon. The genies are not going back into their bottles. And this is, really, how revolution works. Revolutions are first of all of ideas.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 03:57 pm
@panzade,
Young women overwhelmingly refuse to identify as feminists, and they dont feel that they have been disadvantaged by being women ( they are sure right about that!).....when women Say " there is so far still to go" it goes to show just how far the radicals driving this bus expect to go in repressing men before they will even consider letting go of the hold on our balls.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 04:05 pm
Quote:


http://collegeinsurrection.com/2012/11/when-it-comes-to-campus-sexual-assault-charges-being-not-guilty-is-not-good-enough/


When it comes to campus sexual assault charges, being not guilty is not good enough
CommentsPermalink Posted by College Insurrection Tuesday, November 27, 2012 at 11:


Campus administrations struggle to effectively deal with sexual assault cases, either adopting extreme “zero tolerance” approaches or essentially sweeping the matter “under the rug”.

Minding the Campus contributor KC Johnson details a troubling case of an exonerated student who continues to be “on trial” by a tag-team consisting of the original accuser, Office of Civil Rights lawyer, and an activist media minion.

The Office of Civil Rights’ mandated procedures for investigating sexual assault are tilted heavily against the accused party. The institution can hire “neutral fact-finders” who produce the equivalent of a grand jury presentment, deny the accused an advisor of his choice, add witnesses that the accused student does not request, forbid the students from cross-examining his witnesses, and judge the student according to a 50.00001 percent preponderance of evidence standard, an approach that mocks even the pretense of due process.

It is remarkable, then, that one such accused student at the University of Virginia was exonerated of the charges brought against him. Unfortunately, what happened next was unsurprising.

The accuser hired an outside attorney–none other than controversial victims’ rights lawyer Wendy Murphy–and filed a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights. Murphy’s argument, as expressed to c-ville.com, comes close to saying that a failure to convict amounts to an OCR violation. “The preponderance standard is simple,” she told the newspaper. “When her accusations are deemed credible, and his denials are not described with the same glowing terminology, she wins.” But under the UVA system, the investigators (serving as the equivalent of a grand jury) have the authority to deem an accuser’s claims “credible.” For the OCR even to consider such an absurd claim would be highly problematic.

The second disturbing element of this story comes from the article itself. Penned by Graelyn Brashear, the article often appears as little more than a press release for Murphy. Even though the accuser publicly reiterated her allegations through a posting on Murphy’s facebook page–which Brashear notes, was “widely circulated among students,” c-ville.com kept her identity secret.

Nor does Brashear inform her readers about what the UVA procedure actually entails. Beyond referencing the shift toward a preponderance of evidence standard (which the reporter comes close to celebrating, describing universities lacking the standard as “holdout schools,” even as she notes concerns from FIRE and the AAUP), Brashear doesn’t reveal that accused students can’t have an attorney cross-examining witnesses, that the university considers the equivalent of a grand jury or the police as “neutral,” or that the university is willing to abandon even a circumscribed right to cross examine regarding some witness statements. Given that most people outside the academy (indeed, most academics) have little knowledge about the details of campus due process, it seems likely that readers of Brashear’s article came away with the belief that the campus judicial system resembles not the Kafka-like system envisioned by the OCR but instead the Law and Order rules that most citizens at least somewhat understand.

Most troubling, here’s how Brashear described Murphy: “Wendy Murphy, an adjunct professor at the New England School of Law and a frequent media commentator on issues of women’s rights, has a reputation as a firebrand. ‘I’m an activist with my feet in the courts,’ she said. Her battle cry is blunt: ‘The law is designed to facilitate and perpetuate violence against women and children,’ she said.”

Virginia is a member of the ACC, and, of course, Murphy has some experience with handling allegations of sexual assault at an ACC school. In the Duke lacrosse case, the ubiquitous media commentator repeatedly made false statements of fact about the case (nearly 20 of them in 2006 alone) coupled with myriad unsubstantiated claims and bizarre interpretations of law. These statements weren’t made in secret–and they received widespread attention, including from the American Journalism Review.

Yet Brashear mentions none of this, and instead treats Murphy as a wholly credible figure. Imagine, for instance, if the intro paragraph had at least acknowledged that Murphy had a record of playing fast and loose with the truth on claims of campus sexual assault: “Wendy Murphy, an adjunct professor at the New England School of Law and a frequent media commentator on issues of women’s rights, has a reputation as a firebrand, although in at least one high-profile campus matter, the Duke lacrosse case, she repeatedly misstated both factual items and questions of law, always in such a way that favored the accuser in that case.”

Such a portrayal, it seems, isn’t what cville.com thinks its readers should receive.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 04:19 pm
@BillRM,
The storm will lift eventually because most women are decent people, and most women are appalled when men they care about are abused by the system.

Till then be careful out there. Pick you friends and women with care.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 04:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Till then be careful out there. Pick you friends and women with care.


I am ok with my current wife that I had known since 1982 but I am worry to death about my step grandsons when they reach early adulthood and enter into universities that are so anti-male.

All it would take is running into one wrong female to ruin any of their futures.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 04:36 pm
@BillRM,
I promise you that this "sensing questionnaire" will be written with vague questions so that any female who was ever not in her opinion treated right by a guy sexually will be counted as one sexually abused person, with a corresponding abuser. It could be such a thing as he did not take her out to dinner before asking for sex, or taking her to too cheap a place. Any scheme that works to bump up the numbers will be considered with in bounds.

24) Has a male ever put pressure on you to perform a sexual act with him, pressure that you felt was not appropriate? Y N

25) Has a male ever told you, either in words or actions, that it was your duty to perform a sexual act with him or that you owed him sex? Y N

26) Has a male ever reached an agreement with you for sex, but then not honored his side of the agreement? Y N

27) has a male ever done anything to you during sex that you had not agreed to do before he started? Y N

Ya baby, they are going to ring scores of men up for sexual misconduct, all but the most passive will run afoul of the feminist/government cooperative
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 May, 2014 05:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Yale Daily News, unfortunately, doesn't appear up to the task. In an editorial last Friday, the paper complained of the "University's ineffective and embarrassing response to sexual violence, as we learned that those guilty of sexual assault remain on our campus." Had the editors actually read any of the Spangler reports, or Yale's own policies, and discovered that at Yale, being found "guilty of sexual assault" doesn't mean the same thing that it does anyplace else in New Haven?

The editorial asserted that "the preferred punishment for nonconsensual sex at Yale must be expulsion." Again, keep in mind that Yale's definition of "intimate partner violence" includes threatening your roommate with "economic abuse." The "preferred punishment" for such an offense, according to the student newspaper, "must be expulsion." Expulsion for withholding money from a girlfriend or causing her worry? That ought to satisfy the "activists."

- See more at: http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2013/09/another_anti-male_move_at_yale.html#sthash.ja7MgIkD.dpuf


Firefly will of course continue to insist that I am making everything up, as I sit with my tin foil hat. The things that I am concerned about happening under the new demands of the feminists/government cooperative are often already happening however.
 

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