Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

As I've said, you've never bothered to read the actual laws--and their exact wording. Try it some time.

Until then, your remarks, as usual, are meaningless babbling.

It was only a matter of time:



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/savannah-dietrich-twitter-sexual-assault-louisville-174732753.html

We however can not say that it is only a matter of time before such females are punished for their misbehavior.

Don't be a dick, I wasn't passing judgement.

I did not say anything about you......did you leave your comprehension skills someplace today? Perhaps a search is in order.

Sorry force have a well understood meaning in and outside of the law so when you begin to bullshit to this point it is no longer worth my time or anyone else time for that matter to engage you.

BillRM

No, BillRM, we hold those men guilty of rape--and responsible for their own actions if they engage in sex without the legally valid consent of the other person.

And, if this story doesn't show how wrong you have been, in dismissing, trivializing, and ridiculing, the idea of charging the man with rape when the woman is intoxicated, I don't know what will.


And note, no "force" of any kind was needed, or alleged.

Rape is rape--real rape--even when she is intoxicated, and even when no force is used--and even when she's your mom.

Having sex with a passed out woman without her prior consent has always been considered rape during my lifetime. Having sex with a passed out woman who did give prior consent (not the sitch here) or who is under the influence she put into her body and then either with consent or without objection (not the same thing anymore) being called rape is new and debatable.

The standard should be that if the woman can not indicate lack of consent then it is rape...... if the woman can but chooses to not indicate lack of consent (absent the threat of forcible harm) then no rape took place.

Nothing has changed in our positions, you can not post on example of rape which everyone would agree is rape and then claim victory. Not honestly anyways, but of course honesty is not your strong suit.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48292780/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/#.UA7yU2F2Sf4

Of course....we already knew that women labeled victims of men can harm such men in violation of laws and court orders with near impunity. Justice is so passe....actually justice has been redefined as retribution in the name of the victim. Legally justified honor killings will be returning in short order.

The standard is what is written in the sexual assault laws of your state.

Those laws are not new. They have been in effect for some time now.

How about a little "balance" here. Let's consider the matter of stealing. A fellow has a very expensive racing bicycle. He rides it to the shopping mall, puts in in the public bike rack and does NOT lock it. Sure enough, somebody (a bike theif) steals it. The man reports it to the police. And the police mans says? (pick one)

(A) It is your own damned fault for not locking it up.
(B) You should have locked it before you went into the store.
(C) When you have a bicycle that is that hot, you just can't expose it to the opportunity to be stolen.
(D) You are not at fault in the least bit; all bicycle theft is 110% the fault of the horrid lowlife bicycle theif.

If you answered D, you are damn liar. I had a bike stolen once, and was told -- by the policeman -- that the pad-lock/steel calbe that I used wasn't substantial enough, and that I should have used a better lock.

Rape, in many cases, is sort of like the policeman telling me I should have had a better lock. While he would still have pursued charges against the the theif if he (of she) had ever been found, the policeman made clear that I was part to blame. The crime of rape has been politicied by feminists, to try to absolve any culpability on the part of the victim (and also because the radicals that are the actual leaders of most feminist groups hate men).

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity; rarely does a criminal go after what we call a "hard" target. A purse theif goes for a frail little old lady walking alone's purse before that of a 20-year old gal walking with her 200 pound boyfriend's purse. A bank is less likely to be robbed than a small corner store. Now, if a gal advertizes her goods with skimpy clothes, she gets all mens' attention, including the would-be rapists in the room (and in fact, her slutty style might even detract decent men from approaching her). Then she has a few drinks to impair her judgement. Then she gets overly flirty (the alcohol talking) with the wrong guy. He invites her to somewhere with him, she's tipsy and doesn't recognize the risk she's taking. The guy tries to kiss her in the car, and she kisses back. The guy gets her into a compromizing position, and then tries to take her clothes off, at which point she finally realizes the mess she is in, but it is too late to stop the ugly progression, and she is raped. Yes, it is the rapist's fault, and he should go to jail for a very long time (or just cut his balls off, that would work, too). Yet, to suggest that the victim didn't contribute to her own demise is just crazy.

Yes, sometimes rape is an all out attack on a woman who did nothing to put herself in peril. But truth is, that accounts for less than 20% of rapes. Most of the time, the woman willinging participated in activities and/or behaved in a way that set the stage for the attack. Not excusing the rapist in the least bit, because if there is no rapist there, there cannot be a rape; just as if there is no bicycle theif present, there can be no theft. But since we all KNOW that there are both rapists and bicycle theives in our communities, an abject failure to take reasonable measures to prevent being a victim does, in fact, put a portion of the blame for what happened upon ourselves.

By Firefly rape is when you go out partying and drinking and meet up with someone that normally you would not consider a sexual partner but for the magic of the alcohol you had consume of your own free will.

The next day you are not annoy at yourself for having consensus sex with the guy but at him for not acting as your guardian and having sex with you.

So you said to yourself the consent I gave him last night was not valid due to the regret and the drinking so he must be guilty of raping me and should be lock up for a decade or so.

So by the magic of Firefly type thinking a woman can indeed ask to be rape in fact in one case throw herself into the bed of a sleeping man and ask to be 'rape' by him and then regretting the act and cry rape the next day. A resl case that had been discuss on this thread.

No one have any problem in this thread with real rape where the woman did not consent just rape due to the withdrawn of consent after the fact.

Even when she had used bad judgment no one had a problem with dealing with rape as rape if there was no consent but not the idea of invalid constent.

So, you are saying that women should regard all men as potential rapists?

She must avoid getting tipsy and flirting--even on a date with "a nice guy"--since most rapes are committed by someone known to the woman?

Even when sober, she must never start snuggling, kissing, necking, fondling etc. with a man--even if she likes him and finds him attractive--because...

What makes it too late to stop the "ugly progression"? The fact that she says, "No! Stop! I don't want to!" and he ignores her? The fact that he doesn't care whether she's consenting or not?

How is that her fault? She should have known he'd ignore her wish not to have intercourse? She should have known she shouldn't trust any man?

What's wrong with your stolen bicycle analogy is the fact the bicycle is an inanimate object--it cannot express a wish not to be stolen, it, in fact, doesn't care whether it's stolen or not.

Women can, and do, express and indicate their wishes, which might include a willingness for some physical contact, but which might not include a desire to have intercourse. And the desire to have some physical contact does not indicate she is consenting to a "progression" if she indicates she wants to call a halt to the process prior to the act of intercourse. And that is what the sexual assault/rape laws say as well.

If I tell you that you can ride my bike around the block, I am not telling you that you can keep it.

I agree with you that many rapes may be opportunistic--women in their 90's have been raped in their nursing home beds by a staff member, and news accounts of such rapes have been posted in this thread. And intoxicated women are also in a more vulnerable state if their perceptions, and judgment, and ability to resist, are impaired by alcohol.

But, being in a vulnerable state, whether because you're elderly and infirm, or you're walking alone in a deserted area, or because you're in an intoxicated state, does not mean you're sending out a message you want to be raped. A woman can exercise all the caution, and common sense, in the world and still wind up being raped, and raped by someone who is not a complete stranger to her.

Of course, everyone should use good judgment and not deliberately put themselves in harm's way, or do unnecessarily reckless things--no one denies that. But, it's the rapist who seizes the opportunity to "take advantage" of the woman in such a situation--she is not to blame for the rape. Nor is she to blame for unknowingly getting herself within the path of a rapist. She has no culpability for the act of rape.

Most men are not rapists, or even potential rapists, any more than they are potential thieves. There are people who would never steal something under any circumstances, and there are people who will steal, as long as no one is watching, or they think they can get away with it. And there are men who will rape, as long they think they can get away with it. And the woman bears no responsibility for the actions of such rapists--they are responsible for their own behaviors, and their own choice to violate laws.

Short of having a bodyguard at her side, at all times, there is no way that a women can protect herself from rape, at all times, with any degree of certainty. You want to blame the woman for being foolish enough to get tipsy, or drunk, or for walking to her car in a deserted parking garage, or for entering her apartment building late at night, or for wanting to fool around and kiss and flirt, or for wearing a skimpy dress on a date, go right ahead--even though that's not being logical, because, as you've acknowledged, "it's the rapist's fault". You want the woman to share the blame for the rape--even though you know she's not to blame. Does that really make sense to you?

I'm for balance also--but that doesn't include balancing the blame, or responsibility, for rape--the woman isn't the one who commits the rape.

Prior to the 60's, and before oral contraceptives helped to give women greater sexual freedom, and consequently ushered in an era of "casual sex", men actually thought differently in terms of sexual boundaries. There were still rapes, even date and acquaintance rapes, but certainly not to the extent we see now. Men didn't routinely assume intercourse might be a possibility, as they do now. Women just weren't engaging in casual sex, as they do now. More women were remaining virgins until marriage, or at least until they were engaged, having been raised under the adage, "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free". And because more men didn't even have the expectation of intercourse, more men accepted a simple, "No" for an answer, and more of them didn't even think of violating a woman simply because she was drunk.

Once the "sexual revolution" took place, the sexual boundaries changed. As more women began having casual sex, and intercourse, more often, more men began to expect casual sex, and intercourse, more often, and to want it more often. And they didn't always want to take a simple "No" for an answer any more--and that became a problem for all those women who wanted to be able to enjoy sex, but not all the time. They wanted to be able to exercise choice and control in the matter. And so, we now have the "date rape" laws--the "No means no" laws. They really are necessary laws. They help to set the boundaries.

And those legal boundaries have to be respected--violating them has serious consequences, both in terms of emotional harm to the woman, and in terms of legal consequences for the violator. It's the lack of respect for those boundaries that the rapist displays in violating the laws. That failure of self-control, on the part of the rapist, is the essence of rape, and the victim is not complicit in that process, it goes on within the rapist. That's why it is illogical to hold her responsible, or to blame, for someone else's lack of self-control, when she has said, or indicated, "No", or when she is too impaired or otherwise unable to resist, or when she is in a state where she can't even appreciate the consequences of her actions, either because of her physical condition, or because of mental or emotional impairment. In those situations, the responsibility for self-control, and for respect of the legal boundaries, falls on the other person. And it's exactly the same as expecting someone to have the self control not to steal my car, even if I leave it unlocked--with the keys in it--and holding them legally responsible if they do steal it.

If it makes you feel better to see shared blame, it's likely nothing will change that. But I'm not going to join you in heaping that blame on rape victims. Our sexual assault/rape laws define boundaries, the boundaries should not be crossed.

My my that is a remarkable statement from you who begin this thread with the idea of placing insulting anti-rape posters on college campuses to educate college young man not to rape their college female classmates and post silly junk science claims that 25 percents of all college women had been sexual assaulted during their college careers.

Right, you'd rather not educate, and continue to remind, people about the rape laws, or the drunk driving laws. You just want to bitch about the fact that people get arrested for violating those laws. Raising awareness helps people to avoid violating laws--just as posting the speed limit on a road reminds people how fast they are allowed to go.

At least in the UK women who bring false charges of rapes get more then a slap on the wrist that they received in the US at worst.

Of course add a few drinks and regret after the fact in the US and it might still be declared rapes due to invalid consent in the US...............

Young men dating in the US are siting ducks to any emotionally unstable women they might had sex with.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4544323/Woman-Rosie-Dodd-jailed-for-fake-rape-claims-against-three-men.html

A WOMAN who lied to police that three men had raped her because she regretted sleeping with them after a night out has been jailed for two years.
Rosie Dodd, 20, met the men aged 21, 23, and 25 while having drinks earlier this year.

But after bedding them all she falsely claimed each had raped her after going back to a house in Clifton, Nottingham, on June 4 this year.

The unnamed men were arrested on suspicion of rape and spent a total of nearly 50 hours in police custody before being released on bail.

They all maintained that Dodd had willingly had sex with them.

After carrying out further enquiries, Nottinghamshire Police began to have concerns about Dodd’s account.

When challenged, she admitted she had consensual sex with the men and made up the claims because she felt regret.

Dodd showed no remorse when admitting the offence.

She was charged with perverting the course of justice and sentenced at Nottingham Crown Court on Monday after pleading guilty at a previous hearing.

Detective Constable Gina Farrell, who led the investigation, said Dodd had no thought for the victims she falsely named.

She said: “We take every report of rape and sexual assault extremely seriously, just as we did in this case. But it soon became apparent that there were inconsistencies with Dodd’s account.

“The three men accused of rape were quite badly affected by the damaging accusations and Dodd has never shown an ounce of remorse for what she put them through.

“The time our specially-trained officers spent with her could have been spent with someone who really needed our help.”

Detective Inspector Stephen Waldram, head of the city Rape Investigation Team, warned others of making false claims.

He said: “It can be incredibly difficult for victims of rape to come forward to police and tell us what’s happened to them, which is why it’s so important for us to prosecute those who take up our time by lying to us.

“I would urge genuine victims to come forward and tell us if they have been raped or sexually assaulted. Only then can we begin to bring those responsible to justice.

“And I would remind anyone considering making a false report to think again. We carry out extremely thorough and in-depth investigations and their lies will be exposed.”

This woman has been sentenced to prison, as she should be.
However, these 3 young men have had their names and reputations destroyed.
Where do they go to get their good names or reputations back?
How do they escape the fact that they will be known forever as accused rapists, no matter what the investigations showed or what the courts said.

As Firefly stated involving two cops found innocent of rape that a jury verdict does not mean that they are innocent so there is no real way of getting your good name back.

At least it is better then the US where a woman can charge three men completely falsely as in the Duke universtiy so call rape case and not be charge with anything at all when it came clear that not only was there no rape there was not even any sex between the parties.

She then went on to try to kill one boyfreind, set fire to her apartment building and in the end killing a second boyfriend.

If she had file those false rape charges in the UK instead of the US she would have been likely sititng her ass in prsion and a man would not had been killed.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2012/10/dear_prudence_my_fiance_s_niece_is_actually_his_daughter_with_his_brother_s_wife_.html

Bet his ex-girlfriend did not get any punishment or at worst a slap on the wrist.

Of course that is how it should be by our friend firefly way of thinking.

Shame on us males for daring to think that a knowingly false charge of rape is every bit of a serious crime as rape happen to be and should be punished to the same degree.