25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2012 09:06 am
@firefly,
I am saying there is no base to trust either a man or a woman met at random in a bar at least enough to enter into a sexual situation at once.

To do so can get you charge with rape with no foundation for such a charge or rape/kill if you are a woman.

The risks of taking on a stranger as a sexual partner is becoming insanely large for both sexes.

The NYC newscastor would had been far better off not to had allow the lady paralegal to take him to her office after hours and the military man could not had been charge with rape if he had not pick her up in the bar in the first place.

The risk of real rape happening to a woman however is decreasing by the FBI database info however the risk to a man finding that he is being charge due to regret after the fact or to cover up for example how the woman became pregnant seems to be increasing.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2012 09:19 am
@firefly,
Also you do not need to teach anyone not to rape in the classical meaning of the term you do need to warn males however how to be careful to lower the likelihood of some emotional unstable woman pressing charges of rape due to regret after the fact or rape due to the need to cover up cheating etc.

Dear I am not pregnant because I cheated on you I am pregnant because that evil newscastor rape me.

Saving my relationship with my boyfriend is must more important to me then the good name and freedom of some newcastor after all.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Jul, 2012 09:26 am
@BillRM,
The newscaster and that woman had met before, they were not complete strangers.

You seem to have real problems understanding why, in that situation, his failure to have/use a condom may have been the reason she did not give consent for intercourse--although she might have been otherwise willing to have sex with him, and to engage in other types of sexual activities.

That man is lucky he didn't find himself embroiled in a paternity suit as well.
Quote:

The risk of real rape happening to a woman however is decreasing by the FBI database info...

That's not true at all. "Real rapes" include non-forcible rapes, of both men and women, and that data was not included in the federal statistics--which is why the federal definition is being changed, it did not accurately reflect crimes committed and charged and prosecuted at the state level.

There is no acceptable level for the crime of rape--one is too many.
Quote:
Also you do not need to teach anyone not to rape in the classical meaning of the term...

What "classical meaning of the term" you senile idiot. People have to be taught to understand and abide by the current sexual assault and rape laws of their state--and the definitions of "consent" contained in those laws. And those laws have been in effect for some time.

SandiAlaska
 
  2  
Reply Thu 5 Jul, 2012 11:45 pm
Here is my response to a young military man who left a comment on my post in response to the trial:

"Dear Anonymous,

I want to thank you for sharing your personal biased opinion, which you have every right, based off of the small quantity of information provided online. From what you have said, it seems that you may have had a loved one who you believe was wrongly incarcerated and I am very sorry for this. It also seems as though you may be redirecting your anger and bitterness towards what I have written above.

At a young age, I became aware of the reality of injustice in the world. If you were to ask anyone who personally knows me or a former colleague, I am very serious about women’s issues and have a proven track record of supporting and helping individuals who have lived through atrocities of different proportions.

I cannot fully know how this has impacted the perpetrator in my case but I do know that he was not the only one impacted. On February 29th while waiting as the jury deliberated, I prepared to give my Victim’s Impact speech. I hate how much this process has affected not only my life but those I love, my work, my future. I have been betrayed, I have lost “friends”. I feel like I lost a year and a half and I will never be able to regain the life I once had or the life I had once aspired towards. This has not been a positive experience for either party involved. I’m not the one who turned a legal activity into an illegal engagement so shame on him, not me. I am not sorry for how this has impacted his life. He should have thought twice about his family and friends before deciding to strangle me that night.

I’m not clear where you are getting your information. I would like to share a few resources I found helpful and intriguing.

Jag Defense
http://www.jagdefense.com/cases-sex-offenses.php
As someone who is trained in PTSD and the psychosocial effects of traumatic experiences, I found these acquittals the lawyers are arrogant about to be extremely disturbing.

Barriers to Credibility: Understanding and Countering Rape Myths
http://www.ok.ngb.army.mil/j1/sarc/sarc_documents/Training/Other_Misc_Training/Barriers_to_Credibility.pdf
Empirical data which will debunk myths such as Myth 17 which states “Most rape charges are false”. Right below that it states how rape is an extremely difficult crime to charge and the easiest of all to defend.

The Invisible War Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ifc_ongQFQ
“a groundbreaking investigative documentary about one of America’s most shameful and best kept secrets: the epidemic of rape within the U.S. military.” Check out The Invisible War Website and see how you can take action. Check out Service Women Action Network, SWAN http://servicewomen.org/ which “supports, defends, and empowers today’s servicewomen and women veterans of all eras, through groundbreaking advocacy initiatives and innovative, healing community programs.”

RAINN Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network
http://rainn.org/
There is plenty of researched information on the types/effects/aftermath of rape and sexual assaults. By becoming aware and knowledgeable about the truths and realities, we can unite together in prevention and to support survivors.

Knowing the legal definition of rape may also clear some misconceptions.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920

Let me make it clear that I am not anti-military— I am pro-respect and dignity regardless of civilian or active duty status. My father was a member of the Air Force and my brother, a former Marine, are examples of men who exemplified respect to men and women on our soil and had the dignity to continue so while no one was watching while deployed overseas.

I hope and pray that you exemplify love and respect to whomever you may marry, that if you have a son you will be an example of what it means to be a true man and that if you have a daughter that she will know how a man should treat her with love and acceptance. I hope and pray that if you ever do have a daughter, that she will never hear you speak in such disrespectful audacity as your statement here. I fear for your future daughter’s well-being if she is raped and sexually assaulted, as I and thousands of others have, and you speak such belittling words such as these to her. This is not the way to treat anyone, survivor of rape and sexual assault or not.

After 3 years of living overseas serving my country by working with intense populations and then having gone through my own intense incident, I am glad to be home. I have a few priorities to fulfill before going back overseas. Since undergrad I have desired to pursue a Masters in Social Work. Now, I hope to further this by specializing in Social Action and Community Development, taking as many classes as possible about international issues and also the law. I hope to one day fully support other individuals who are victims of crime.

At the end of all of this, rape and sexual assault is not a new issue. Since the early 1970’s, individuals and groups have engaged in consciousness-raising efforts to educate the public about the reality of rape. I have lived that reality and am simply trying to do my part in ending sexual violence and rape."

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 02:47 pm
@SandiAlaska,
Well you are engaging in a internet campaign against a man who was found not guilty of the crime you had charge him with and given the holes in your story I do not think that a civil jury would not rule in his favor also if he should bring a libel suit against you.

You might wish to think about the libel laws and the risk of a civil libel suit if you keep this campaign going.

Good luck..................

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jul, 2012 02:58 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The newscaster and that woman had met before, they were not complete strangers.


Yes she came up to him on a public street and gave him her number and then they exchange phone/text messages for a short time period before their meeting.

To me that is being strangers if not total strangers.

Footnote her law firm later stated that they are not going to fire her for bringing an unimproved visitor after hours to the office and then having sex with him in her boss's office.

Given that law offices contain all kind of confident files relating to their clients if I was a client I would have a problem with doing business with a firm that would not fired a employee that would do such a thing.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2012 10:52 pm
Good to see that even today not all woman are as obsessed with beating upon men as Firely is:

Quote:
Dear Prudence,
My husband is kind, supportive, funny, generous, smart, and loving. However, I feel like I must divorce him. Six years ago, when we were in our early 20s and had just fallen in love, after a night of partying and drinking, he woke me up in the middle of the night and started to have sex with me. I was dozing and still drunk and, yes, I took my panties off myself. But when I realized that it was not OK for him to make advances on me in my state, I pushed him away and ran out. He later felt so bad he wanted to turn himself in for rape. I was very confused and thought at times that I was overreacting and at others that I was raped. We painfully worked through this, but the incident made my husband very reluctant about having sex. This led to an agreement that he shouldn't be afraid of coming close to me in similar situations as long as he asked my consent. This made us feel better and I felt secure again. However, we just found ourselves in a very similar situation. After coming back from a friend’s wine tasting we went to bed and he started to kiss me. I liked it and went along, only to wake up in the morning and remember only half of it. Now I am in the same painful spot I was before and I can’t fathom how he could have ignored our agreement. Should I just drop it or am I right about feeling abused?
—Confused

Dear Confused,
I understand the need for colleges to have unambiguous codes of sexual conduct for their young, horny, possibly plastered students. These often require getting explicit permission for every escalating advance. However, if two adults are in love and have frequently made love then each can assume implicit consent to throw such legalistic caution—as well as panties—to the wind. Certainly spouses are entitled to say, “Not tonight” or “Not there,” and have such a request respected. But even a married couple who have had sex hundreds of times can enjoy that alcohol might ignite a delightful, spontaneous encounter. Your approach, however, seems to be to treat your sex life as if it is subject to regulatory review by the Department of Health and Human Services. Your prim, punctilious, punitive style has me admiring your put-upon husband’s ability to even get it up, given the possibility he’ll be accused of rape—or turn himself in for it!—if one of you fails a breathalyzer test. Living in terror that expressing one’s perfectly normal sexual desire could end one’s marriage, and freedom, is itself a form of abuse. Stop acting like a parody of a gender-studies course catalog and start acting like a loving wife. If you can’t, then give the poor sap a divorce.
—Prudie

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/dear_prudence/2012/07/dear_prudie_is_drunken_sex_with_my_husband_a_form_of_abuse_.html

THese dickless men however have to go....they give us all a bad name. Men need to relearn what women learned 40 years ago....that standing up for yourself is a requirement in life. Otherwise you end up as roadkill.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 03:47 am
@hawkeye10,
You know Hawkeye this is the world the Fireflies would like to see us all live in and I love the man who was thinking of turning himself in for rape in that letter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love to had seen the police reaction to that event even if the guy would get an award from the feminists for understanding his eviliness.

My poor poor grandsons and even my granddaughter if we do not stop this silliness.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2012 04:54 am
@hawkeye10,
I wonder how many men ran from this woman before she found someone insane enough to married her?

Could not pay me enough $$$$$$$$$ to be with such a woman.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 06:06 am
Quote:
July 21, 2012
Air Force Instructor Sentenced to 20 Years in Sexual Assaults
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SAN ANTONIO (AP) — An Air Force instructor was sentenced to 20 years in prison on Saturday, a day after he was convicted of rape and sexual assault in a sweeping sex scandal that rocked one of the nation’s busiest military training centers.

A military jury at Lackland Air Force Base here found the instructor, Staff Sgt. Luis Walker, guilty Friday night of all 28 charges he faced, including rape, aggravated sexual contact and multiple counts of aggravated sexual assault. A judge consolidated those charges on Saturday into 20, but that did not affect Mr. Walker’s maximum sentence. He could have received life in prison.

Sergeant Walker is among 12 Lackland instructors investigated in connection with sexual misconduct involving at least 31 female trainees. Six instructors have been charged, on counts including rape and adultery, and Sergeant Walker was the first to stand trial. He also faced the most serious charges of all those accused.

Prosecutors say that from October 2010 through January 2011, Sergeant Walker sexually assaulted or had improper sexual or personal contact with at least 10 female recruits. His court-martial included testimony from 10 women, including one who said he had lured her into an office and sexually assaulted her on a bed, ignoring her pleas to stop.

Five women testified during Saturday’s sentencing hearing, saying they could not sleep or maintain relationships with men after the assaults. They said Sergeant Walker’s actions eroded their trust in authority and affected their performance at work.

One said it affected her tour in Afghanistan because she felt uncomfortable being alone with men.

“It’s made it extremely hard to interact with authority figures,” she said. “During my tour in Afghanistan, I was a little bit more scared of everything. I can’t work with certain individuals just since they remind me of Staff Sergeant Walker.”

Lackland is where every American airman receives basic training. It has about 475 instructors for the approximately 35,000 airmen who graduate every year. About one in five recruits is female, pushed through eight weeks of basic training by a group of instructors, 90 percent of whom are men.

Sergeant Walker was convicted by a jury of six men and one woman. Under Air Force rules, the jury can declare a defendant guilty by a three-fifths vote on each count, rather than the unanimous decision required in American civilian courts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/us/air-force-instructor-sentenced-to-20-years-in-sex-assaults.html?_r=1&hp
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 06:31 am
@firefly,
Postings cases of real rape once more that no one have any problem with punishing Firefly and I had taken note that a court martial that had only one woman on it found him guilty and yet the Peace Corp poster here claimed that her charges did not get a fair hearing due to there being only one woman on the court that deal with her charges.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 07:18 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

Postings cases of real rape once more that no one have any problem with punishing Firefly

But you've argued throughout this thread that only more violent forcible rapes are "real rape".

I'm certainly glad if you now acknowledge that the current. "No means no" sexual assault laws refer to "real rape".
Quote:
His court-martial included testimony from 10 women, including one who said he had lured her into an office and sexually assaulted her on a bed, ignoring her pleas to stop.

That's rape--"No means no".

And this man also intimidated these women, because of his position of authority, which deterred them from reporting their assaults.
Quote:
One woman, identified as Airman 5, testified that Sergeant Walker tried to win her confidence by sympathizing with her after she had been upset by bad news from home. He later began sending suggestive texts to her cellphone before cornering her in a supply closet and forcing her to have sex with him.

The woman said she did not report the episode out of fear that Sergeant Walker would “recycle” her in punishment, meaning force her to redo basic training.

“I was scared, and miserable and hurt,” the woman testified. Her version was corroborated in court by a friend.

Another witness, identified as Airman 8, said Sergeant Walker called her into his office and pressured her to show her breasts. She mentioned the episode to other recruits, and word got back to Sergeant Walker.

She testified that he then called her back into his office and warned her: “If you had a problem with it, then you should have come to me, instead of running your mouth. Remember, I’m staff sergeant, you’re a trainee.”

“I went numb,” the woman testified. “I was scared. What if he punished me, or ruined my career?”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/lackland-air-force-base-instructor-guilty-of-sex-assaults.html?ref=us


All "real rapes" are not violent, involving considerable physical force.

I'm glad you now, finally, understand that.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 07:22 am
@firefly,
Sorry dear but some women claimed that he used force and or the threat of force on some of them at least IE real rape.

Nor do I remember ever stating that a woman does not have a right to refused sex just that she can not say yes without the man at least threatening her with force and then claimed after the fact that her consent was not valid if she regret the sex.

By how you wish to define rape a woman can indeed ask for sex in fact beg for sex and by opening the consent issue long after the fact can claimed rape.

IE she can ask to be rape.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 07:40 am
@BillRM,
Some of the other conduct was not rape but is a clear violation of military laws that I have no problem with.

All those charges was not all charges of rape..............
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 07:50 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry dear but some women claimed that he used force and or the threat of force

No, he did not physically assault these women in order to sexually assault them. He ignored their resistance and statements of "No" or "Stop".

His position of authority was what was threatening to them. And that's what stops sexual assaults of this type from being reported. And that's what the Air Force is finally addressing.
Quote:
At least 11 other instructors in the Air Force’s basic training system, nine from the same squadron, are under investigation in the widening case, which is the focus not only of a criminal probe but also a major policy review by a two-star general. At least 31 female recruits have been identified as possible victims.

One of those instructors has pleaded guilty; four others have been charged and are facing courts-martial. All have been removed from training duties, Air Force officials said. The lieutenant colonel in charge of some training units at Lackland has also been reassigned.

The sexual abuse scandal is among the worst to hit the military in over a decade. In 1996, dozens of women at the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland accused male supervisors of rape, sexual assault and other offenses in 1996. A few years earlier, more than 80 women were assaulted during several days of drunken revelry at the Tailhook Association convention in Las Vegas, a case that led to the resignation of the Navy secretary and two admirals.

Air Force officials said more instructors could be charged as a result of the current investigations, with recruits being encouraged to report episodes anonymously through a 24-hour tip line. The two-star general’s review has also been expanded to include three other Air Force training bases.

“We’re not satisfied that this one unit is all there is,” Maj. Gen. Leonard A. Patrick, commander of the Second Air Force, which oversees basic training, said in an interview. “We want to assure ourselves through a disciplined approach that we’ve caught everything or everyone involved in this kind of behavior.”

The scandal has been deeply painful for the Air Force. Nine years ago, a survey by the Pentagon’s inspector general found that 12 percent of the women who graduated from the Air Force Academy that year said they had been victims of rape or attempted rape while at the school. The vast majority said they did not report the episodes to the authorities out of fear of being punished.

That appears to have been the situation in the current cases as well. The first assault allegations were reported by the acquaintance of a recruit and not the recruit herself. And when investigators began interviewing possible victims, almost all initially denied being assaulted.

With a staff of about 475 instructors, Lackland provides basic training to every Air Force recruit, about 35,000 a year. About one in five of those trainees are women, and about nine in ten of the instructors are men.

The rigorously hierarchical nature of the military makes it especially conducive to sexual abuse, critics say, and basic training is even more so, with instructors looming as intimidating, all-powerful figures to young recruits.

The Pentagon rejects such assertions. But amid growing criticism from advocacy groups and Congress, Secretary of Defense Leon E. Panetta announced in April new steps to combat sexual assault, including having higher ranking officers handle sexual assault complaints, a change expected to lead to more prosecutions.

According to Pentagon data, there were 3,192 reports of sexual assault in the military in 2011, but only 240 went to trial, with 191 convictions. But the Defense Department acknowledges that the crime is vastly underreported, estimating the number of assaults may actually be closer to 19,000 a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/lackland-air-force-base-instructor-guilty-of-sex-assaults.html?ref=us


It's good that the problem is finally being addressed.



BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 08:02 am
@firefly,
Sorry dear but keeping her from leaving is using force and it appear that she was not free to leave!!!!!!!!!!

It sound like charges of false imprisonment might had also been in order.

You do not need to beat someone to use force or the threat of force to control them.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 08:13 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry dear but keeping her from leaving is using force and it appear that she was not free to leave!!!!!!!!!!

You're not "free to leave" once the man is on top of you. And these women weren't "free" to fight back with their superior officer.
Quote:
You do not need to beat someone to use force or the threat of force to control them.

And that's why the federal definition of rape is being changed--to recognize that fact--as it has already been recognized on a state level for a long time now.



BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 08:33 am
@firefly,
Putting your body on top of someone else for the purpose of controlling them and forcing acts on them they are not otherwise willing to do is using force even in the cases where no sex is involved.

If a cope knock you down and sit on you he is using force.

He used forced on her so it is rape by the old meaning of the term and I had no problem with it.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 10:30 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Putting your body on top of someone else for the purpose of controlling them and forcing acts on them they are not otherwise willing to do is using force...

No, that's not how "force" is described in the sexual assault laws for forcible rape--the only rapes you've considered to be "real rape". But, you've consistently and repeatedly displayed ignorance of the actual laws throughout this thread.

But I'm glad that you finally recognize that date rapes often involve no extreme physical force, and that, "No means no," laws are sufficient to establish unwillingness or lack of consent, and that these constitute very real rapes.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 11:05 am
@firefly,
Quote:
No, that's not how "force" is described in the sexual assault laws for forcible rape--the only rapes you've considered to be "real rape". But, you've consistently and repeatedly displayed ignorance of the actual laws throughout this thread.


BULLSHIT........................

If I force anyone to the ground and used my 220 pound body to keep them down I would be using force in the same manner as if I tied someone up so they could not move.

So either tying up someone against their will or pinning someone down against their will or holding a knife to their throat and having sex with them also against their will is not using force to rape that person?

Sorry all the above is indeed using force to rape a person.

To sum up you are a nut case..............

Oh thank for reminding me that my doctor wish me to loss weight.
 

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