25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:17 am
@Ionus,
I appreciate the apology and it is accepted.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:22 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
I hate the Libby Lobby. How is that self pity ? The self pity type are DEFINITELY eliminated in my previous line of work. You are imagining things to enhance your argument of you being a very nice person who is mistreated by the nasty men. All part of your sick fixation on rape stories.


I don't belong to the Libby Lobby so your hatefulness to me is misplaced. Oftentimes, anger such as anger from a rape can turn into self-pity and it is manifested in oral and sometimes physical outbursts such as those that you have shown consistently throughout this thread.

I am not attacking you. I am trying to help you. The reason I believe I can say these things is because I experienced them. I was angry, bitter, and wallowing in self-pity to the point I felt I could justify hurting anyone. I hurt people I cared about. I didn't hate anyone but myself.

Thankful people are rarely bitter and bitter people are rarely thankful.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:26 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:


Quote:
The fact that you continually refer to women as bitches is very curious.
Then let me explain....the women here who feel a need to post rape stories so they will feel better are sick bitches. As far as I am aware, the other 3+billion women are not sick bitches. Your maths ability is even worse than your logic, and that was just plain sad.


Then don't read them and don't respond. Any ridicule you receive is brought on by yourself with your pathetic posts and oh, whoa is me crap.

Your theory that men rape women because they were themselves raped in prison is about the most idiotic and paranoid piece of dung that I have ever read. And, you label others as having reduced brain cells. I am surprised that you can function at all.

You dismiss the rape of women as something to be sucked up and yet you whine that you were raped. Boo, hoo.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 09:30 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
By the way, I never said one word other than sympathetic ones when you said you were raped.
I have found the post and read well past it. You are quite right, and I again sincerely apologise. You expressed sympathy. I confused you with firefly. Sorry.


You seem to get confused quite easily. Memory failing?
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:00 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
You would also be aware from my posts that a major cause of women being raped is men being raped in prison who are then released.

Are you saying that most women are raped by ex-convicts who were themselves raped in prison ? You do realize that there is absolutely no basis in reality for that belief, don't you?
Quote:
The self pity type are DEFINITELY eliminated in my previous line of work.

Just what was your previous line of work? Being a pimp? Being a pornographer?
Quote:
Even now, presented with this excellent opportunity, you say nothing bad about the Libby Lobby

Possibly because you have failed to identify the people involved in this so-called "Libby Lobby" and to cite their publications, so we have some knowledge of who you are talking about and what they are actually saying and doing, apart from your obviously biased anecdotes and opinions.
Quote:
Just look at the prison population and compare that to the number of women raped.

Are you assuming that all men who have ever been incarcerated, and who are currently incarcerated, have been raped? On what do you base that opinion? Have you spent a lot of time in prison? Consider this:
Quote:
A study conducted in Australian prisons found that prison rape was experienced by at least 10% of male prisoners aged 18-25, with a small number of these victims reporting sexual assault on a daily basis. However, author Jeremy Prichard (2000) has contended that the incidence and frequency of prison rapes depends upon the unique social climate and institutional culture of the specific prison, and whether or not the prison houses certain individuals who may promote or spread sexually-abusive attitudes and the acceptance of prison rape within the prison subculture.
http://www.insideprison.com/prison-rape.asp

Similar studies in the U.S. also found that about 1 in 10 men in U.S. prisons have been raped. 10% is hardly all, or even most, inmates experiencing rape while incarcerated. While no amount of rape is tolerable inside a correctional institution, or outside of one, you appear to be greatly exaggerating the occurrence of prison rape, and your contention that a major cause of women being raped is due to men who have been raped in prison is just absurd.

It is important to note that some of the factors that account for prison rapes--sexually-abusive attitudes, and the acceptance of rape in the prison subculture--are also some of the same factors that contribute to the rapes of women in society. That is why sexism and misogyny, as well as things like violent pornography, and victim-blame, all of which promote sexually-abusive, malignant attitudes, help to contribute to a rape-receptive culture where the crime of rape fails to be adequately addressed.

If you are genuinely interested in the problem of prison rape, perhaps you should become involved with an organization like Just Detention International, and find out how you can bring about greater awareness of the problem and work toward its elimination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Detention_International

Quote:
You don't care about the greatest number of rapes which occur to men. You just want to have a hand holding cry about sexual power and how you wish you had more of it....hint....grow a penis...you will be a better woman.

The greatest number of rapes do not occur to men. But, the rapes of men in prison, which do occur, are due to the fact that these men are in a powerless situation and their vulnerability makes them easy prey for rape--exactly the same sort of conditions which make women easier targets for rape when they are alone on a street or in their home, or elderly, or disabled, or mentally impaired, or extremely intoxicated--all of which makes the victim more vulnerable to an assault.
Rape is not about "sexual power" it is about sexual aggression and the need to achieve power through aggression. Even in prison, inmates sexually-abuse other inmates to gain a more powerful position in the prison sexual hierarchy. Discussing the problem of rape does not mean that woman want "sexual power"--or a penis--it means that we want to eliminate this form of abuse and assault.

If you are genuinely anti-rape, then you should stop whining about men being raped more often than woman because it is not only inaccurate, but, more importantly, because it simply fails to address the basic point that all rape is wrong, regardless of which gender is being victimized. All rape is wrong. All rape should be stopped.

Your problem seems to be that you resent the increasing amount of societal influence that women have accomplished since receiving the vote.
Quote:
You have nothing to discover and only wish to highlight how poor poor pitiful women need more political power than the unreasonably high amount they already get.

Women have an "an unreasonably high amount" of political power??? Unreasonable by whose standards, other than yours? Are there any limits on the amount of political power that men have? Why should there be any limits on the political power that women can achieve? You seem to view those "poor pitiful women" as quite a threat to your sense of masculinity. Just having a penis no longer guarantees that you will be in a ruling position and have control of society. Now you will have to rely on more substantial attributes--like your brain and your character--to get ahead and be in charge. Trying to beat down women won't work any more. We have the vote, and we use it.
Quote:
You feast on the every detail of juicy rape stories, blame men in general for being rapists, will not even discuss the causes of rape, tell men you have bigger balls than them but a penis is not required

No one here "feasts" on the news stories about rape that have been posted. These stories, which appear in the papers daily, are the reality of rape, complete with the ugly details. There is no point in having a sanitized version of rape in this discussion--rape is an ugly crime. It is also important to know how rape cases are actually being handled in the courts, and the news articles inform us about that. There has also been a great deal of unfounded hysteria in this thread about "innocent men ensnared by unfair rape laws and the lies of women" but the rape cases actually reaching our courts do not support that view. The rape charges being adjudicated in our courts appear to be more than reasonable, and the trials more than fair to the defendants, and the news coverage which is posted here supports that view.

Men in general have not been blamed for the actions of rapists in this thread. There has been no general anti-male sentiment voiced by any of the women posting in this thread. On the other hand, you have spewed forth considerable anti-female feeling in this thread in a very self righteous manner. In addition you keep referring to "your side" and "your agenda" when responding to female posters as though the issue of rape automatically polarizes the genders--and you attack any male poster who appears to be on "our side". No female posting in this thread has shown any evidence of having "an agenda" and "our side" has merely voiced support for the current rape laws--laws which were passed into effect by overwhelmingly male legislators, and laws which most people, both male and female, fully accept with no problems.

Try cooling off, toning down your insults, and actually try reading and comprehending what other people are posting before you respond. You've convinced us you're a very angry man, but you haven't convinced anyone of much else.





BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:14 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Similar studies in the U.S. also found that about 1 in 10 men in U.S. prisons have been raped.


Hell we are only then would be talking about a 100 thousands plus rapes in that case more then the yearly reported raped of women by a few 10s of thousands

But Firefly does not care about the harm done to men by other men or by women for that matter.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:32 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
But Firefly does not care about the harm done to men by other men or by women for that matter

If you could make that statement, you completely failed to comprehend my last post, where I made it quite clear that all rape is wrong. regardless of which gender is victimized--all rape is wrong. all rape should be eliminated. So, there is no truth, at all, in your comments

I can only assume you need to completely distort what I say so you can maintain a stereotype of some "mythical firefly" who actually bears very little resemblance to me. By departing from reality in that manner, you give yourself leeway for all manner of personal insults and attacks on me, none of which would be justified if you actually stuck to the truth of what I actually say.

When it comes to being honest, you are severely challenged.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:36 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The truth is that the United States has essentially accepted violence—and particularly brutal sexual violence—as an inevitable consequence of incarcerating criminals. Indeed, prison assault has become a cliché within mainstream culture. The news and entertainment media refer to it nonchalantly. Prime-time TV shows, such as Oz, depict the most awful scenes of rape and carnage. Popular TV dramas routinely depict police taunting potential defendants with threats of the violence and sexual abuse they will face in prison. Indeed, last year 7UP ran a TV advertisement in which a teasing threat of sexual assault in prison was part of a lighthearted pitch for selling soda. The advertisement ran for two months without objection and was only pulled after criticisms from prisoners' rights groups.

So accepted is assault as part of prison life that an outsider might conclude that on some basic, if unarticulated level, we think it an appropriate element of the punishment regimen. Perhaps we believe that allowing prisons to be places of horrific acts will serve as part of the utilitarian deterrent effect of criminal sentences. Or perhaps we recognize that prison rape and assault are an unavoidable byproduct of the rape and assault in society generally, so that our goal here is not utilitarian but retributive: that is, even though we cannot eliminate rape and assault, we can at least reallocate them. Thus, when we purport to incapacitate convicted criminals, what we are really doing is shifting to them, the most "deserving" among us, the burden of victimization.

The Prison Rape Elimination Act is better than nothing—unless, of course, it represents the last gesture politicians intend to make in the direction of addressing this problem. Assuming the study does not blinker reality by denying the prevalence of the problem, it will presumably mandate or exhort state and federal officials to monitor, train, and discipline prison staff and enhance inmate security—all under a threat of withdrawal of federal funds or the firing of negligent officials. Of course, the government would thereby be implicitly forcing prison officials to spend vast amounts of money they do not have and that Congress is unlikely to give state legislatures in the first place.

Perhaps while this federal study is under way, there are other, more honest ways of acknowledging what the American prison system has created. Perhaps every sentencing judge should require that a defendant headed for prison be given extensive "pre-rape counseling" in the hope that he or she can take some small personal steps to reduce the risk of attack. Or perhaps we could require judges to demand data about the differential risks of rape and assault for different types of prisoners in different prisons and begin to factor such data into any sentence. "You committed murder, so let's send you somewhere where you're really likely to be raped." In that way we will be at least as brutally honest with ourselves as we are literally brutal with our prisoners.

http://www.slate.com/id/2089095/

All of those who agitate for throwing more men into the prison system, and who then stay silent about the sexual abuse that we know that they are likely to experience there, should be ashamed of themselves. It is hard to believe that these people have a problem with sexual abuse itself, they simply have a problem with it be perpetrated upon their chosen people.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 11:38 am
@firefly,
Quote:
If you could make that statement, you completely failed to comprehend my last post, where I made it quite clear that all rape is wrong. regardless of which gender is victimized--all rape is wrong. all rape should be eliminated
Where you concentrate your attention leaves a lot to be desired.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
We cannot stop throwing people into prison because they may suffer sexual abuse there. We can't keep from sending a serial killer to jail because he might be sexually abused. Is it a horrible thing that they are abused in prison? Most definitely. But the responsibility of fixing that problem would lie more with the prison officials than it would the inmates or victims of crimes.

And quite seriously, this is one of those well, if you hadn't of put yourself there type of situations. If a person commits a crime they need be cognizant of the penalty for it and all the consequences that entails.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
The topic of this thread is not prison reform, which is how one should address the problem of sexual assaults in correctional institutions.

Nor has anyone advocated putting more people in prison, except those who break our laws. People are incarcerated for all sorts of reasons, and just not rape. Would you suggest that we imprison no one, in order to spare them the risk of sexual assault?

If you want to belabor the subject of prison rape, then start a thread about prison reform. Sexual assaults in prisons reflect an inadequate level of security in those institutions. Inmates physically assault and kill each other as well as commit sexual assaults, they force other inmates into doing their laundry for them, they provoke fights so someone will lose their "good time", they theaten each other with homemade weapons, and they do all all sorts of terrible things to each other which could be better contained by enhanced security and better zero-tolerance policies.

Once someone is incarcerated, the correctional institution becomes responsible for their welfare. If you are concerned about the conditions in prisons, and the welfare of inmates, then start a thread on that topic.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:13 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
We cannot stop throwing people into prison because they may suffer sexual abuse there
There are a great many people in our prisons who could have and who should have been dealt with in other ways. And there are a great many people who only care about sexual abuse depending upon who the victim is. There is no reason why we can't wise up, institute better practices, and call out the alleged saints who are really nothing more than political agitators (the feminists in particular). It all boils down to judgement, our lack of good judgement.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The topic of this thread is not prison reform,
You are not the decider. We long ago made this thread a wide ranging debate on power in sexuality. Prison rape falls in.
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
There are a great many people in our prisons who could have and who should have been dealt with in other ways. And there are a great many people who only care about sexual abuse depending upon who the victim is. There is no reason why we can't wise up, institute better practices, and call out the alleged saints who are really nothing more than political agitators (the feminists in particular). It all boils down to judgement, our lack of good judgement.

Hawkeye, there is no such thing as human perfection. Of course there are people who are in prison that 1) really are innocent; 2) really are guilty; 3) you or I may think they received either too harsh or too lenient of a sentence; etc. It is life. When we find problems indeed we do need to correct them.

Quote:
Where you concentrate your attention leaves a lot to be desired.


You posted that to firefly, but every single time you post the word feminist it also applies to you. People champion causes for their individual reasons. Merely because firefly, others and I are not hating on the feminists you and those that seem to hold the same views, get angry, insulting, and actually stated we have said things none of us have really said or completely ignore the fact we have, indeed, showed concerned about the things you have but on a different level of importance. I appreciate the fact that you have a passion for your cause, however; you do not seem to really appreciate others having passion for theirs too.

You and I shared a brief discussion last night that was quite pleasant. It gave me a glimpse into another part of you and it wasn't the hateful, feminist bashing, insulting side. If mankind is going to make any real changes we have to stop attacking each other because we don't have the exact same feeling about something.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
You are not the decider. We long ago made this thread a wide ranging debate on power in sexuality. Prison rape falls in.


Actually, yes she was the decider. She decided what this thread was going to be about when she made the first post and named the thread. Whenever anyone starts a thread they make the decision on what the topic is to be. Others are either polite and civil and respect that and try to join in the conversation or they are rude, lude, obnoxious and continually try to change it to what THEY want instead. It is common courtesy that if one does not want to participate in the topic of discussion they either go start their own discussion somewhere else or they choose not to participate in it at all.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:46 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
She decided what this thread was going to be about when she made the first post and named the thread. Whenever anyone starts a thread they make the decision on what the topic is to be
No, she makes the decision only for her, you are free to conform to her expectations or not. We long ago all decided not to.

This subject gets to what we see repeatedly from Firefly which goes a good way towards explaining how she goes so wrong when it comes to sexuality, that being that she constantly shows that she does not understand the nature of the interface between individuals.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 12:54 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I appreciate the fact that you have a passion for your cause, however; you do not seem to really appreciate others having passion for theirs too.

While I do consider myself to be a men's rights agitator I am before that a proponent for individual rights and an advocate for sexual and erotic health, both in individuals and though the society. You can not fairly compare Firefly and me, as she fights for what she falsely thinks (or claims if I am not in a charitable mood) that women want, where-as I fight for everyone. She wants to mold those around her to her will, and she is willing to use force to do it, I want everyone to be happy and to live their life according to what they want to do as much as possible. After men and women are once again free I want to convince them to work together on community projects. I find Firefly and those like who who gravitate towards a police state and who want to direct everyone's actions at gun point to be a scourge upon humanity,to be damn near pure evil, , which accounts for my overt hostility towards Firefly..
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 02:37 pm
@BillRM,
Oh sorry the total population in prison is now over 2 millions so ten percent of that would be 200,000 not 100,000 but once more that is meaningless to Firefly as it is only men being harm not women.

It only a men being harm by false charges so there is no reason to punish women in any meaningful way for so charging men.

In fact the higher the rapes claims true or not the better as it will allow the passing of more anti males laws.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 02:55 pm
@BillRM,
Bill, keep in mind that the rape the Firefly harps on and the rape of prison are two very different things in practice.....women who are raped (real rape) are raped maybe once or twice in their lifetimes, those who are raped in prison are often raped once or twice a week. In one case rape is an unfortunate event, in the other it is a lifestyle. If firefly wanted to talk about rape as power and control of another against their will she would be talking about prison rape, she has a much better example of the problem to point to than is the one she us using if this is really what she wanted to talk about .

It is not, she is after political power for women, rape and sexual consent problems are noting more than a means to a desired political result for her. That is why she is so interested to attach the word "rape" to young drunk women who get themselves into sexual situations that they later regret, as it elevates the alleged problem high enough to justify the political power over men (often through use of the police) that she is requesting.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Feb, 2011 03:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You can not fairly compare Firefly and me, as she fights for what she falsely thinks (or claims if I am not in a charitable mood) that women want, where-as I fight for everyone. She wants to mold those around her to her will, and she is willing to use force to do it, I want everyone to be happy and to live their life according to what they want to do as much as possible. After men and women are once again free I want to convince them to work together on community projects. I find Firefly and those like who who gravitate towards a police state and who want to direct everyone's actions at gun point to be a scourge upon humanity,to be damn near pure evil, , which accounts for my overt hostility towards Firefly..

All of this because I support the current sexual assault laws? That makes me "pure evil" and a "scourge upon humanity"? Laughing

If having laws, laws that were written and passed by the duly elected representatives of the people, constitutes a "police state" in your mind, you are simply an anarchist and not a self-styled champion of any sort of liberty and justice. People cannot do "what they want to do" when their behavior impinges on the rights of others--people are not free to rape because that is "what they want to do".

I do not fight for "what women want", I fight against the abuse of one person by another, whatever the form of that abuse, including rape.

That you do not feel "free", because of the current sexual assault laws, simply tells me, and everyone else, that you don't want to be constrained by any need to consider the welfare and well being of anyone except yourself. You don't want to have to consider whether your sexual contacts and sexual activities with another person are wanted and consensual. And you resent laws that say you cannot give unbridled expression to your selfish impulses, or needs for gratification, when that infringes on the rights of others. So, if you want to just take something that does not belong to you, we should abolish property rights and laws that prohibit theft. And, if you want to dispense with consent, we should abolish rape laws. Or, at the very least, we must change the definition of "rape" so it side-steps behaviors of yours that might currently be deemed illegal. Not that your opinions on this issue are self-serving, or anything as crass as that--you just want "everyone to be happy". Would that "happiness" include all the people who might be sexually exploited and sexually abused under your newly revised definitions of rape, but who would then be left without the protection of law?

If my views on this issue incur your hostility, I think I must be doing something right. Smile



 

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