25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 01:45 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics figures show that over the past eight years, the number of women charged with domestic abuse has rocketed by 159 per cent.

In 2007, 2,336 women fronted court on domestic violence charges, compared to around 800 in 1999.

Preconceived ideas of gender roles have led a lot of people to believe it would be virtually impossible for a women to physically abuse a man.

But co-director of Men's Rights Agency Sue Price says it is exactly this stereotype that leads to battered men hiding in shame, fearful of being ridiculed, or even prosecuted.

"I've had SAS soldiers in tears because the wife is a black belt karate expert and yet they know that if they even try to restrain her he might be charged with assault and domestic violence," she said.

"It's much harder for a man to actually admit that his wife is beating him up. They seem to regard it as a shameful issue and a lot of police actually say to men 'What did you do to make your wife hit you?' or 'Can't you handle your missus?'
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/22/2604559.htm
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 02:33 am
@hawkeye10,
The Phyllis Schlafly Report, June 2010
Quote:
The Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) was passed in 1994 as a payoff to the radical feminists for helping to elect Bill Clinton President in 1992. Personal sponsorship of this law was taken over by then-Senator Joe Biden.

VAWA shows the hypocrisy of noisy feminist demands that we kowtow to their ideology of gender neutrality, to their claim that there is no difference between male and female, and to their opposition to stereotyping and gender profiling. There is nothing sex neutral about VAWA. It is based on the proposition that there are, indeed, innate gender differences: men are naturally batterers and women are naturally victims. VAWA is not designed to eliminate or punish violence, but to punish only alleged violence against women. Most of the shelters financed by VAWA do not accept men as victims.

VAWA has been known from the getgo as “feminist pork” because it puts $1 Billion a year of U.S. taxpayers’ money into the hands of the radical feminists. They have set up shop in domestic violence shelters where they promote divorce, marriage breakup, hatred of men, and false accusations, while rejecting marriage counseling, reconciliation, drug-abuse treatment, and evidence of mutual-partner abuse. There is no investigation or accountability for the taxpayers’ money spent in these shelters.

VAWA makes taxpayers’ money available to the feminists to lobby state legislators to pass feminist laws, to train law enforcement personnel and judges in using the laws, and to fund enforcement.

VAWA provides the woman with free legal counsel to pursue her allegations, but not the man to defend himself. He is on his own to find and pay a lawyer — or struggle without one.

Feminists have changed state laws in order to get family courts to operate on a loosey-goosey definition of family violence. It doesn’t have to be violent. It can simply be what a man says or how he looks at a woman. It can even be what a woman thinks he might do or say. Definitions of violence include calling your partner a naughty word, raising your voice, causing “annoyance” or “emotional distress,” claiming to be “fearful,” or just not doing what your partner wants.

Feminists have persuaded most states to adopt mandatory arrest laws. That means, when the police arrive at a disturbance and lack good information on who is to blame, they are nevertheless legally bound to arrest somebody. Three guesses who is usually arrested.

Feminists have lobbied most states into passing no-drop prosecution laws. Those laws make the prosecutor legally bound to go forward with prosecution even if the woman recants her charges or wants to drop them. Studies show that women do recant or ask to drop the charges in 60% of criminal allegations, but the law requires prosecution against the man to proceed regardless. Along with the loss of other constitutional rights, the man thus loses his right to confront and cross-examine his accuser.

VAWA has a built-in incentive for the woman to make false charges of domestic violence because she knows she will never be prosecuted for perjury. Charging domestic violence practically guarantees she will get custody of the children and sever forever the father’s relationship with his children even though the alleged violence had nothing whatever to do with any abuse of the children. Judges are required to consider allegations of domestic violence in awarding child custody, even though no evidence of abuse was ever presented.
http://www.themoralliberal.com/2010/06/29/the-awesome-power-of-family-courts-phyllis-schlafly/

the old broad has a good point..VAWA money is also ultimately responsible for the misconception the male abusing female is this huge problem as shelters and all the saviors justify their existence..and that female on male abuse is not, because they simply do not give a **** about that. The science is clear, but so far feminist propaganda funded largely with this program has trumped the truth.

In my opinion the feminists used this government money to attack men, and since they did not do it right this program has to go away, or at least be massively retooled and renamed and run in a different way so that it is fair to men.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 05:06 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
I think you honestly don't know what a true scientific study is - which is documented and investigated by a reputable source of which none of yours
are.


We should turn over such studies only to lawyers it would seem!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 08:16 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

In my opinion the feminists used this government money to attack men....

Neither the Dept of Justice, charged with WAVA's enforcement, nor the courts agree with your statement, at least as far as interstate stalking is concerned - and that includes electronic stalking on the internet: http://www.justice.gov/olc/2010/vawa-opinion-04272010.pdf
Quote:
It is true that the statute is entitled the Violence Against Women Act, but other provisions of the Act make clear it applies to conduct perpetrated against male, as well as female, victims,...“[n]othing in this subchapter shall be construed to prohibit male victims of domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, and stalking from receiving benefits and services under this subchapter”), and courts have so held,.... (“While Congress was particularly concerned with those crimes that ‘disproportionately burden women,’ ... [VAWA’s] criminal provisions are gender-neutral, and enforcement has been gender-neutral as well.”). Courts have also held that sections 2261A and 2262 apply when the offender and victim are the same sex,

This may be a change in the interpretation of the original WAVA statute since homosexuals were added to the classes (blacks, hispanics, jews, handicapped, etc) already designated as enjoying extra protection in violation of the 14th Amendment. You'd have to strike down most provisions of the Civil Rights legislation, as amended since 1964, to get rid of all these categories of "designated victims" - all of them existing in a prima facie violation of the 14th Amendment. The entire concept may collapse under its own weight as more and more "victims" are added to the list.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 08:42 am
@High Seas,
The following excerpt is from Prof. Bergelson's article linked at bottom of this post (quoted in my own prior post).

High Seas wrote:

Quote:
Consider the offenses of rape, kidnapping, theft, and trespass,
to name just a few. In all of them, the act itself does not violate a
prohibitory norm. Having sex, transporting someone to a different
location, taking other people’s property, or entering someone’s home
is not bad per se. The act becomes bad only due to the attendant
circumstance, namely, the lack of consent
; unless consent is missing,
the conduct is outside the boundaries of criminal law..



re-posting this from page 35 of this thread to include link to previously omitted .pdf source for quoted text
http://docs.law.gwu.edu/stdg/gwlr/issues/pdf/Bergelson.pdf
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:01 pm
I think we can sum on this long thread as follow, relationships between men and women sexual or otherwise are complex and far from one-dimensional.

People with firefly viewpoint that there is one totally narrow right way to look at this, one class of victims only, one set of the right laws are greatly oversimplifying the matter.

There are evil men and also evil women. There are also a lot of gray areas in the sexuality relationships between men and women where good people can find themselves trap in.

Sometimes the laws and how they are applied are totally fair and correct sometimes they do far more harm then goods.

To state that there are others classes of victims then women including men, that sometimes the current rapes laws give both silly and very unfair results is not an attack on women or supporting rapists or wife beaters for that matter.

Where had been a case for example where the woman climbed into the man bed uninvited at night and begin to kiss him and he ended up with a rape charge because she later claimed that she was too drunk to know what she was doing!

It would benefit both men and women if we try to be as fair as possible when we write our sexual assaults laws and used commonsense when we apply them instead of being completely and insanely one sided.

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:07 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
It would benefit both men and women if we try to be as fair as possible when we write our sexual assaults laws and used commonsense when we apply them instead of being completely and insanely one sided.

that is not going to happen till people start to demand facts and evidence from the feminists and the saviors. For a long time now they have been able to make **** up with impunity.
Intrepid
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:34 pm
@BillRM,
How do you consider that a summary when it is not even directed to the topic of the thread?

You certainly did not sum up Firefly's comments or contribution. You have only done them a disservice.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:35 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It would benefit both men and women if we try to be as fair as possible when we write our sexual assaults laws and used commonsense when we apply them instead of being completely and insanely one sided.

that is not going to happen till people start to demand facts and evidence from the feminists and the saviors. For a long time now they have been able to make **** up with impunity.


You would certainly know about making **** up. You are the master at that.

You should start your own feminst thread and see how you are torn apart there.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 01:25 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
You should start your own feminist thread and see how you are torn apart there.
Why, I don't need to start a thread to know that questioning feminist theory and/or how it has been used by the feminist movement is not fit for polite company. The dogma is entrenched, finding people who can think clearly on the subject with an open mind is not easy. Holding a conversation on the subject requires moving off of the public square and into the shadows, as the idiot mob will never allow the conversation to continue if they get wind of it.

You will recall that this is one of the main arguments of the philforum folks about why a2k is not suitable for conducting philosophic conversations....it was a valid point.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 02:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
The "idiot mob" of which you speak. Would that be the "collective" to which you reference so often?
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 02:40 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
The "idiot mob" of which you speak. Would that be the "collective" to which you reference so often?
of course, and considering that I keep taking about individuals being a mix of both good and evil you being a smart fellow figured out that means that collections of individuals are both good and evil according to me. Right? You are asking not because you dont know but because you want to confirm...

Edit: and this is also why I, Unlike a lot of people, have some compassion for rapists..... why I am more interested in helping rapists and potential rapists than I am in blooding them, or offing with their heads. In a civilized world the carrot is tried before the stick.
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 04:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye you do walk a path alone having feelings for outright rapists.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 04:51 pm
@BillRM,
Once upon a time there were quite a few who had compassion for sinners, who believed in hating the sin not the sinner.....but sadly you are probably correct. we are indeed living through a dark age.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 04:52 pm
@BillRM,
I changed my mind.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 05:08 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Hawkeye you do walk a path alone having feelings for outright rapists.

No, Bill, it's a profound ontological issue for Hawkeye, much larger than rape alone; I can't quite determine if he reflects the true libertarian sentiment that condemned the "Regina v. Brown" decision in England, as well as the failure of both higher courts to overturn it. In a true Libertarian spirit I support freedom of consenting adults in any kind of private activity, but - and that was the objection raised by the law Lords - a line must be drawn if the participants in such private activity may end up so horribly mangled, physically or psychologically, that they subsequently end up as permanent wards of the state. Still quoting from Prof. Bergelson's article linked earlier (a true treasure-trove of information, worth studying in depth):
Quote:
.....a controversial and very high-profile police investigation into the
activities of a group of men involved in consensual sadomasochism.
The investigation ended in a criminal prosecution and conviction of
the defendants. The case, R v. Brown, was appealed....
.


>
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 05:12 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

....we are indeed living through a dark age.

Would you agree that libertarianism supports leaving these 2 guys (neither of whom was insane) free to cut up and eat each other? If not, why not?
Quote:
In late 2000, Armin Meiwes, a forty-two-year-old German computer
technician, posted a message in an Internet chat room devoted
to cannibalism: “[S]eeking well-built man, 18-30 years old, for slaughter.”
A few months later, Bernd Juergen Brandes, a forty-three-yearold
German microchip engineer, replied: “I offer myself to you and
will let you dine from my live body. Not butchery, dining!!”
The two men exchanged numerous e-mails, discussing details of
the prospective killing and dining. Brandes even joked about their
both being smokers: “Good, smoked meat lasts longer.” On March 9,
2001, Brandes arrived at Meiwes’s place.
Brandes swallowed twenty sleeping tablets and half a bottle of
schnapps. Then Meiwes cut off part of Brandes’s body and fried it as
a snack for them both. Brandes was bleeding to death, but still not
dead, when Meiwes stabbed him in the neck after a good-bye kiss.
Then Meiwes butchered him and froze the flesh.

ibid.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 06:49 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:

Would you agree that libertarianism supports leaving these 2 guys (neither of whom was insane) free to cut up and eat each other? If not, why not?
I have no idea what Libertianism supports.

My socialism which is grounded in the Principe of cooperatism and the belief that if left up to their own devices whole and free men will the majority of the time choose to value the best interests of the many over the one supports not leaving these two free. The grounds are that to do so is an unreasonable burden on the individuals who are at risk of harm, and on the collective because if the agents of the collective which are tasked with managing risk do not do their jobs then the agents loose all authority and civilization breaks down.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 10:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye you do walk a path alone having feelings for outright rapists.


That's not at all true, Bill. While this, below, is from the period after WWII, even today, US soldiers who rape are offered great protection by their officers.

SOFAs [Status of Forces Agreements] keep US military, charged with crimes, out of the legal system where they are stationed. Many escape punishment for serious crimes, rape, even murder.

Quote:
Hunger made German women more “available," but despite this, rape was prevalent and often accompanied by additional violence. In particular I remember an eighteen-year old woman who had the side of her faced smashed with a rifle butt, and was then raped by two G.I.s. Even the French complained that the rapes, looting and drunken destructiveness on the part of our troops was excessive. In Le Havre, we’d been given booklets warning us that the German soldiers had maintained a high standard of behavior with French civilians who were peaceful, and that we should do the same. In this we failed miserably.

“So what?” some would say. “The enemy's atrocities were worse than ours.” It is true that I experienced only the end of the war, when we were already the victors. The German opportunity for atrocities had faded, while ours was at hand. But two wrongs don't make a right. Rather than copying our enemy's crimes, we should aim once and for all to break the cycle of hatred and vengeance that has plagued and distorted human history. This is why I am speaking out now, 45 years after the crime. We can never prevent individual war crimes, but we can, if enough of us speak out, influence government policy. We can reject government propaganda that depicts our enemies as subhuman and encourages the kind of outrages I witnessed. We can protest the bombing of civilian targets, which still goes on today. And we can refuse ever to condone our government’s murder of unarmed and defeated prisoners of war.

I realize it’s difficult for the average citizen to admit witnessing a crime of this magnitude, especially if implicated himself. Even G.I.s sympathetic to the victims were afraid to complain and get into trouble, they told me. And the danger has not ceased. Since I spoke out a few weeks ago, I have received threatening calls and had my mailbox smashed. But its been worth it. Writing about these atrocities has been a catharsis of feelings suppressed too long, a liberation, that perhaps will remind other witnesses that “the truth will make us free, have no fear.” We may even learn a supreme lesson from all this: only love can conquer all.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v10/v10p161_Brech.html


Quote:


Bases by Another Name: U.S. Military Access in the Philippines
by Stephen R. Shalom

...

In the fall of 1997, two new developments brought the
ACSA issue to the fore. First, the U.S. and Philippine govern-
ments began talks on a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) that
would grant partial diplomatic immunity to U.S. military person-
nel in the Philippines. The proposed agreement is reminiscent of
the policy under the Military Bases Agreement whereby U.S.
soldiers were often able to escape punishment for crimes com-
mitted in the Philippines, including the killing of Filipinos.


http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=MPpCwVnx5p4fB26XGWB9jC3VxYb0QMQKz0fpGYt0Xt38JgpGzPkX!-1069521214!-1419836203?docId=97787204

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 11:13 pm
Not all feminists are of the close minded male bashing variety:
Quote:
The "gender symmetry" debate continues. In the absence of conclusive data and based on substantial research, it nevertheless appears that, whether they are heterosexual, bisexual, gay (Renzetti & Miley, 1996), or transsexuai/transsexed (Brown, 2007), and no matter what their age, physical ability, and socioeconomic or ethnic background, both women and men are subject to IPA and IPV.

Research findings indicating that women are both victims and perpetrators of IPA and IPV challenge many previously held conceptualizations and explanations (McHugh & Hanson Frieze frieze, in architecture, the member of an entablature between the architrave and the cornice or any horizontal band used for decorative purposes. In the first type the Doric frieze alternates the metope and the triglyph; that of the other orders is plain or , 2006), leading to calls for more in-depth studies of the experiences of male victims, an area in which relatively little qualitative research Qualitative research


.
.
As a feminist sociologist, gender-related issues are at the forefront of my concerns. Issues surrounding the use and abuse of power by women in intimate relationships are eminently worthy of rigorous, detailed investigation by feminist and other scholars, for a lack of empirical research into female-on-male intimate violence limits greatly our understanding of its nature and processes. Although this is open to debate, De Welde (2003) has argued that "hegemonic discourses of women's powerlessness are not equipped to deal with power from women" (p. 250), and such hegemonic discourses require contestation. There are, of course, discourses around the use and abuse of power by females; for example, in the analysis of women's sexual abuse of children (Denov, 2004) and female relational abuse (Kelkar, 1992). Fitzroy (2001) reminds us that victims of women's violence include children, parents, siblings, disabled family members, female or male partners, colleagues, workers, and strangers.

In general, there is a relative dearth of qualitative research into physical abuse perpetrated by women upon their intimate partners, especially when unilaterally generated.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/A+marked+man%3A+female-perpetrated+intimate+partner+abuse-a0200844516

Journal International Journal of Men's Health
Publisher Men's Studies Press
ISSN 1532-6306 (Print) 1933-0278 (Online)
Issue Volume 6, Number 1 / Spring 2007
Authors
Nicola Graham-Kevan1
1 University of Central Lancashire


I welcome enlightened minds from whence ever they come, even feminists.
 

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