Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

It is incomprehensible to me on how Hawkeye can view rape as an industry. I think he deserves pity rather than scorn for he is certainly lacking that which most of the population possesses. INTELLECT!

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@firefly,

Given that real rape/sexual assaults are now at a 30 years low we do need to redefine the crime in order to get more men into the old net or the Federal money may just slow down to deal with a nonexistent crisis.

Lying about the numbers only go so far after all and get to the point that anyone who can do simple math can no longer be fool.

Let see we are already are in the process of redefining domestic violence to include any man who would dare to raised his voice or god forbid curse at his female partner during an argument.

Hell even who is consider a domestic partner is being expanded to roommates and others never dream of being such just a few years ago.

Now by playing with consent we getting to the point if you happen to dare to lied to the lady she can in a numbers of our states can now claim rape by fraud.

This serve neither men or women well, placing at worst ungentlemanly behaviors in the same crime class as holding a knife at some woman throat or in the case of domestic violence’s laws yelling and cursing at your partner in the same class as putting her into the hospital with broken bones.

You are doing a great disserve to real rape victims Firefly by this nonsense and are now producing one hell of a backlack that is also likely to result in harming real rape victims

The only reason that this backlack is not great yet is that most of the public is not aware of the changes in the rape laws and most only become aware of it when it bit someone they care about such as a brother of son or uncle.

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I had reach the conclusion that rapists and the feminists such as Firefly have a numbers of things in common.

They are both out to harm innocent people using sex as a weapon and by doing achieved a power rush.

One used the fact that males are on the whole far bigger and more powerful then women and that we had train our females to view themselves as powerless when facing a male and the other is using the color of law and the same powerless view of women to do their evil deeds.

A man locked up for years and who will be mark for the rest of his life as a rapist because he took all of 7/10 seconds to withdraw in the middle of intercourse when the woman cancel her consent is just at must or more of a victim then a woman who at knife point was force to have sex.

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Our responding to them just makes them spit out more and more of the most idiotic of statements. If a person is so debauched they believe there is an actual "rape industry"...................what can one say to that? What Intrepid said, we should pity them.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

actual "rape industry"...................

AM there is no question at all that there are one hell of a lot of stakeholders in promoting increasing harmful rape laws and keeping the public misinforms concerning the issue.

All those hundreds of thousands dollars of grant money yearly to come up with on their face nonsense surveys and studies are just the tip of the iceberg.

Millions upon millions of dollars of Federal funding to run all kind of anti-violence to women programs all over the country.

All kind of grants to law enforcement to deal with a problem that had been on the sharp decline for a generation and is now at a thirty years low.

Hawkeye I do not remember if I came across the yearly figure or not on the total amount being spend, somehow I have the impression it was in the 100 millions ranges from the Federal government alone but perhaps you have a link to the yearly figures.

I can remember even in the 1980s a married license had a surcharge of ten dollars or so to support batter women shelters in Florida. At least I avoided that insult with my current marriage by being married in Las Vegas.

Strange that the government is of the opinion that a woman is less safe with a husband then living in sin with a boyfriend is it not, to the point they are going to punish people for getting married.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

Congress should provide full funding for VAWA programs at $320 million in the Labor, Health and Human Services budget and $683 million in the Commerce, Justice and Science budget.

That above is a billion dollars repeat a billion dollars AM and that is just what they wish to keep taking from Federal government not counting states and local governments.

There gold a large mountain of gold to be found in the rape business.

http://www.ywcaelmira.org/index.asp?pageID=369

The President’s FY 2009 budget proposal, released on February 4th proposes making harmful cuts to programs that help victims of violence and their families while at the same time extending tax cuts for high income earners. Specifically, the Administration cut funding for rape prevention and education programs, flat fund (provides no increase even for inflation) battered women’s shelters and the national domestic violence hotline. Furthermore, it consolidates VAWA grants in the Department of Justice Office of Violence Against Women (OVW) into a competitive block grant program funded at $280 million thus cutting violence against women programs by $120 million; and eliminates the VOCA fund.

Because of federal investments in programs that prevent and end violence against, women, women and girls who once suffered in silence have been able to access services for domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, rape and stalking. It had also enabled a new generation of girls and boys to grow up understanding that violence against women and children is a crime that will not be tolerated by our society. However, with the cuts in funding last year along with possible cuts this year progress is in jeopardy.

In the FY09 budget and appropriations process, Congress has a chance to reject the proposed cuts to violence against women programs and to renew the investment in preventing and ending violence against women. In the FY09 Congress should provide full funding for VAWA programs at $320 million in the Labor, Health and Human Services budget and $683 million in the Commerce, Justice and Science budget.

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Hawkeye my wife had written any numbers of federal grant proposals in her life maybe we could look into sitting up a nice sounding NGO and tap into this money river ourselves?

Perhaps using your knowledge of the BDSM scene to set up a program to try to “save” the poor women trap into such a life style by evil men.

You would need to pretend to be a reform sinner however.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Hawkeye my wife had written any numbers of federal grant proposals in her life maybe we could look into sitting up a nice sounding NGO and tap into this money river ourselves?

Perhaps using your knowledge of the BDSM scene to set up a program to try to “save” the poor women trap into such a life style by evil men.

You would need to pretend to be a reform sinner however.

Bill, the only thing you do when you make such condescending bigoted remarks about my religious beliefs is show how very needing you are in the salvation department. And, since you are so needing in that department, I choose to pray for you and ask God to remove your bigotry and intolerance.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

That above is a billion dollars repeat a billion dollars AM and that is just what they wish to keep taking from Federal government not counting states and local governments.

the store fronts are largely funded out of the VAWA $1 billion (plus remember that there was a several hundred million dollar kicker buried in OBAMA's stimulus funding for VAWA programs), but they often also add in state and county government funding as well. When the women get there (rarely are men serviced, as they are included not to report, are not made to feel welcome even in the centers that will handle men) women are offered cash that comes from seperate "victims assistance" funds(no need to document that they are victims, the claim is good enough). If they get a rape kit drawn who ever draws it gets $300-$500 and the lab $400-$1000 to test it out of another funding source...the industries think thanks (womens studies programs) are funded by state direct aid to universities and various tuition assistance programs, the cost of doing investigations, running the courts, and running the prisons comes out of still other pots of money.....

It all gets very murky, a lot of this money is passed around a few times before it is actually spent and with many levels of government feeding the industry funding adding to get to a real number is rarely attempted. We spend $25 billion a year on "the war on drugs" and the rape feminists claim and are peeved that they dont get that much, which I tend to believe.

For an interesting insight look at how even after a year and a half of looking only now does law enforcement think that they have enough understanding of the money trail to file charges in the UC Davis rape industry fraud case.
http://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3934:former-davis-violence-prevention-director-arrested&catid=74:judicial-watch&Itemid=100

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

you make such condescending bigoted remarks about my religious beliefs

When your religious beliefs is used by you as grounds to attack others life styles you do not care for you are damn right I will reply in a condescending manner!!!!

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
you make such condescending bigoted remarks about my religious beliefs

When your religious beliefs is used by you as grounds to attack others life styles you do not care for you are damn right I will reply in a condescending manner!!!!

Look, I have every right to not like what you or anyone else does for whatever reason I don't like it. So just stuff a sock in it! You want tolerance for what you want to do but where is your tolerance for others? I believe things like sleeping with others when you are married is wrong. So what? How does that really affect you? I am merely text on a screen stating my views. I don't see the need to drag religious beliefs into this. I am not attacking you or hawkeye. I may have in the past and I apologized. But, do not expect me to kiss your butt and say what you do is okay when I believe it is wrong. I have a constitutional right to state it. If you don't want what you do commented on THEN KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT!

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Hawkeye my wife had written any numbers of federal grant proposals in her life maybe we could look into sitting up a nice sounding NGO and tap into this money river ourselves?

You fail to understand the process...the feds off load money in the form of huge grants to intermediaries, who then pass it down stream. To get VAWA money one goes to a NGO that is controlled by the rape feminists, and if they don't know you and don't like you you get nothing. The feds insist upon written policies and criteria for getting funded by VAWA, so the rejections will always be well documented as being the result of an inferior request for funding, but as anyone who know bureaucracy knows this is an oft played game of rationalizing the doing of what is wanted to be done. The important thing is that the government subcontracts the work out to the rape feminists, and what is wanted to be done that counts is what they want to do, not the government.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

You fail to understand the process...the feds off load money in the form of huge grants to intermediaries, who then pass it down stream. To get VAWA money one goes to a NGO that is controlled by the rape feminists, and if they don't know you and don't like you you get nothing

There are small direct grants you can apply for according to the government web-pages but you are right we will more then likely need to cut in a front feminist or two with kickbacks. How moral can the average rape feminist be after all?

Then we do have the Indians tribes that had been telling the Federal government to go to hell for the most part over this nonsense so if we can talk some Indians to go along with the process the government bureaucrats should be so happy that they should not look all that closely.

In any case it is annoying to know of this river of cash is flowing by and not having even a small bucket to get a few hundreds thousands dollars out of it.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

There are small direct grants you can apply

That would surprise me,as I was under the impression that the process always works as indicated here

Quote:

Victim Stakeholders Meeting

February 23, 2009

Montana Board of Crime Control

3075 N Montana Ave

Members Present: Mike Ferriter - Chair, Mikie Baker-Hajek, Karen Benner, Matthew Dale, Sally Hilander, Patty McGeshick, Melanie Pfeifer, Christina Powell, Kelsen Young

Staff Present: Stacye Dorrington, Conrad Eklund, Roland Mena, Lisa Riedlinger, Lily Yamamoto, Casey Driscoll

Agenda Items

Ø Call to Order

Ø Updates

Ø OVW Certifications

Ø Preparation of Three-year plan

Call to Order

Chairman Mike Ferriter called the meeting to order at 9:05. He explained that this was a planning and discussion meeting and that no action would be taken on grants today.

Lisa explained that the purpose of the meeting was to give the group updates on the VAWA funding. There are some new areas of funding that MBCC will be receiving. The group will also go over the certifications to ensure that Montana is compliant and creating a committee to develop new goals and ideas for the three-year plan.

VAWA STOP Grant

Lisa reported that the application period for the VAWA STOP grants just closed on February 20. The allocations are expected to be 5 to 25% higher than last year. The three-year plan for this grant is also due this year.

VAWA Economic Stimulus Bill

Lisa reported that Montana is expected to receive $1,018,559. This is in addition to what is normally received in VAWA funding. The STOP stimulus funding is subject to all program statutory requirements. The funds are to be used to promote create jobs and promote economic growth within the purpose areas of VAWA. The allocations are as follows: 25% to law enforcement; 25% to prosecution; 30% to victim services, 10% of the 30% is for Native American programs; 5% for courts; and 15% for discretionary funding.

The group had a brainstorming session on ways to spend the stimulus funds. Kelsen asked the focus would be funding new programs with the money or if the funds should be used to enhance programs that are already started. Lily explained that would be nice to fund new programs that could be implemented but that the group was free to decide how to use the funds. Kelsen said it is important to maintain the jobs that do exist, not just creating new jobs. Mike asked for some clarification if the goal of the meeting would be to provide a recommendation to the Board Executive Committee. Lily said that this meeting was more focused on the stakeholders and what is really needed in the communities.

Some of the suggestions included:

Make shelters ADA compliant

Sustain existing programs

Disposition statistics

Lower level offender services

Misdemeanor/prosecution training

Misdemeanor probation

Court training (judges)

Misdemeanor Compliance Officers

Counselor credits/certification

Counseling for victims

Rural transportation

Restitution for misdemeanors

One suggestion was to use the funds to enhance the misdemeanor probation program that is currently in place that is funded by the marriage fee. Karen explained that VAWA funds were used to fund a domestic violence prosecutor in Billings and there are three private agencies that can serve the misdemeanor probation.

The group also suggested offering training for counselors to elevate the standard of counseling services. Kelsen explained that the Coalition has provided trainings in the past and felt that the change also needs to come from the courts. Mike suggested requiring that any referrals from misdemeanor probation go through counselors that have received a specified training. It was also suggested to use the grant money to pay for hours of counseling for victims. Kelsen said that she would like to see the money filtered through the programs and contracted out for counselors, not right from MBCC to the counselors.

Stacye said that she found 7 communities with MP programs in her search. Kelsen thought this would be a good opportunity because there is already an existing grant program to funnel the money through. She also suggested having compliance officers serve sections of the state, rather than just counties or towns. Matt suggested funding the officers part-time then marketing the rest to county attorneys or local law enforcement.

It was suggested that the 30% for victim services be used to sustain the current programs throughout the state. Some suggestions were to using the funding to hire a victim advocate, turn a part-time position into full-time, or increasing wages. Kelsen said that she would reach out to the programs to get ideas on what is really needed. Stacye pointed out that the ’09 awards may not be allocated until later in the year and it may be difficult for programs that are already struggling to survive until the next funding becomes available.

Patty asked if the state had clear statistics about how domestic violence acts in Montana? How do the programs affect the occurrence of domestic violence? She also urged the group to continue to consider the Native American women and women in the eastern part of the state.

Kelsen explained that there was 10% of the total available stimulus funds that was set aside for Tribal Entities, which is separate from the state allocation. She said it was very important to do whatever necessary to support the Tribal Programs to be able to apply for that additional funding. She also said that Tribal Coalition funding is also in addition to the STOP money. She explained that there will be additional money available for the Tribal grant programs.

VAWA SASP Grant

Kelsen handed out a sheet on the Sexual Assault Services Program (SASP) and Lisa explained that there were handouts included in the packet about the history of the program, a letter to the Governor from OVW and the planning status of the grant. Kelsen explained that the program was created in 2005 by OVW for sexual assault direct services. Entities that are eligible for funding are rape crisis centers (community-based programs providing services to sexual assault victims) and dual programs (providing services to domestic and sexual assault victims), as long as the program can prove that they have been doing sexual assault work. The funding is for all people affected by sexual assault and cannot be used to support offenders or criminal justice activities. There are two primary streams of this funding available; states receive a flat amount and 10% of the total amount funded goes to state coalitions and tribal coalitions and programs. There may be more money available this year because there is two years of combined funds. The state has chosen MBCC to be the pass-through agency for the money. The RFP is now out and the members received a copy.

VOCA Grant

Stacye said that there is still some confusion about how much MT will receive in VOCA stimulus funds. She said that according to National Association for VOCA Administrators the amount is $563,000. Each state VOCA Administrator was asked to provide information to the Federal Government about how much funding the state could use. Montana could use an additional $1 million just to sustain the existing programs. She explained that VOCA programs had a 13% reduction in funding last year so stimulus funding will probably be used to increase awards to those programs.

OVW Certifications

Lisa directed the group to the Memorandum to OVW STOP Administrators. This document explains that in order to receive funding, the states must meet all the application requirements and certify that they are in compliance with the four statutory eligibility requirements of the Violence Against Women Act. The four eligibility requirements are:

1. Costs for Criminal Charges and Protection Orders

2. Forensic Medical Examination Payment

3. Judicial Notification

4. Polygraph Testing Prohibition

Lisa went through her answers for the Certification Desk Review and the Follow-Up Questions from that review. She said that she has no real concern that the state is not in compliance. Lisa explained that in the Orders of Protection only 18 U.S.C Section 922(g)(8) is listed and that Section 922(g)(9) should also be included. She explained that the language was included but the citation was missing. Matt said that he would work with Karen Nelson to make the changes to the form.

One of the most recent follow-up questions was regarding Judicial Notification, Lisa asked the group for some direction in how to answer this question. The group felt that she should get information from several judges around the state or from Chief Justice McGrath about what the practice is in the state. Kelsen suggested reporting that the Order of Protection is being improved and that practice is different from place to place but that a model is being developed to distribute throughout the state. She also suggested using this as an opportunity to educate the field.

Lisa directed the group to her answer regarding polygraph testing, which is taken from case law. She explained that she spoke with the lawyer for OVW and was told that a more official answer would probably be needed. When Lisa contacted the TA number she was told that a letter from the Attorney General would satisfy the requirement.

Preparation for Three-year plan

This is preparation for 2010 –2012 plan. Lisa directed the group to the RFP for the STOP VAWA funds and the current three-year plan. Lisa explained that she spoke with OVW about how to improve the three-year plan and they thought that the first goal could be tightened up made more specific and to possibly add additional goals. This would help provide a specific direction for the state. There are two purpose areas that OVW focused on that Lisa thought the group should consider. They were the Jessica Gonzales Victim Assistants and the Crystal Judson Domestic Violence Protocol Program.

The goal of the Jessica Gonzales Victim Assistants is to enforce orders of protection. A local law enforcement agent serves as a liaison between victims of domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault and stalking and personnel in local law enforcement agencies in order to improve the enforcement of protection orders. Kelsen explained that this is basically the job that victim advocates currently provide. There was some reluctance because they continue to expand the purpose areas but do not expand the funding. The Crystal Judson Victim Advocates would provide funding to provide supportive services and advocacy for victims of domestic violence committee by law enforcement personnel.

One suggestion Lisa made was to focus on creating better goals for tribal communities. Lisa thought the three-year plan needed more direction and needed to be more goal oriented. Kelsen suggested adding dating violence as a purpose area to be considered. She also said there is a great deal of interest in and attention on violence against Native American women.

The group agreed to have another meeting to discuss the three-year plan. They thought that a one-day meeting to discuss goals, objectives and purpose areas would be good. The group discussed some suggestions for other people that should be on the committee, including representation from DPHHS.

Mike adjourned the meeting at 11:45.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:siOuN_54InUJ:www.mbcc.mt.gov/ARRA/Materials/2-23-09/Victim%2520Stakeholders%2520Meeting%25202-23-09.doc+applying+for+vawa+money&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I learned something here, as I was not aware that the states where forced by the feds to outlaw polygraphing alleged victims. we see this a lot though, that because the feds now provide a good chunk of the rape industry funding the rape feminists need only concern themselves with forcing their agenda through Washington, as the states will do as they are told.

The focus on funding industry jobs does not surprise, neither does being particular about who gets to come to these meetings to help decide the future of the industry. I assue you that no one who might possibly call for a winding down of the industry will ever be invited to take part in the process.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

I believe things like sleeping with others when you are married is wrong. So what? How does that really affect you?

And my expressing my opinion that your god is a harmful fantasy and your judging anyone sexual behaviors because of it/him/her/ghost is silly affect you how?

Yes we do have a nice double standard here.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I believe things like sleeping with others when you are married is wrong. So what? How does that really affect you?

And my expressing my opinion that your god is a harmful fantasy and your judging anyone sexual behaviors because of it/him/her/ghost is silly affect you how?

Yes we do have a nice double standard here.

I have not said a word about your religious beliefs yet you and your buddy continually want to drag mine into the conversations and I have been keeping my religious beliefs out of this. I don't like what bank robbers do either. Don't like liars either. Nor rapists, no murderers. You got a problem with that? Well, that's just too bad. Now, if I were attacking you for your religious beliefs, your color of skin, etc., oh I bet you'd have a hard time with that wouldn't you? Why, you'd call me a religious bigot or even a racist. Stop being such a hypocrite. You want to do and say anything you want but when someone else dares stand up to you and demands the same right you have a problem with it. Go figure!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Kelsen explained that there was 10% of the total available stimulus funds

Quote:

that was set aside for Tribal Entities, which is separate from the state allocation. She said it was very important to do whatever necessary to support the Tribal Programs to be able to apply for that additional funding. She also said that Tribal Coalition funding is also in addition to the STOP money. She explained that there will be additional money available for the Tribal grant programs.

The whole post of your was interesting and in doing research earlier I had run into more then one statement that most tribes do not even response to the Federal government asking the tribes to apply for these grants.

I wonder if they had found a work around for the fact that many tribe leadership is hostile to this whole program?

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

Now, if I were attacking you for your religious beliefs, your color of skin, etc., oh I bet you'd have a hard time with that wouldn't you?

NOT AT ALL......

As an out and out atheist I am more the used to being attack for my religion or non-religion views my friend.

And you are bringing your religion view into how other should view marriage and for some reason a married couple are not allow to have an agree open married if they would care to do so.

They are for some strange reason are vows breakers even when they had both agree up front to have an open marriage.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

I wonder if they had found a work around for the fact that many tribe leadership is hostile to this whole program?

I have not heard anything about it, but I do know that the Tribes take a dim view of the feds coming in and telling them how to live their lives. It might be that as hard up as the tribes are for money that this bit of money is not worth the destruction that it causes.

The feminists will of course say that it is proof that the men run the tribes at the expense of women, and that it proves how much work remains to be done in changing the way that the Indians live their lives. The new way is to be decided be the feminists, naturally.....

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@BillRM,

I know plenty of atheists, non-believers, whatever you want to call them, that believe sleeping with anyone but your spouse when you are married is wrong. Like I said Bill, stuff a sock in it.

My opinion of a person's marriage is just an opinion. There is nothing I have said that can in any way affect yours, hawkeye's, or anyone else's marriage. I suppose if I said in my opinion you two don't belong together, you'd take great offense at that too? Seems to me you are seriously trying to police my opinions. I don't agree with much of what you or hawkeye do (judging from your posts) but I sure don't have a right to tell you that you can't do it nor have I tried to tell you that you can't do it except when it is outside the boundaries of the law. The only thing I have harped on is if it's the law, then it's the law. If ya don't like it, get it changed.

I have stated my opinion on how I feel about it. You have a problem with that. I am sorry that you do. You feel the need to bash my religious beliefs. I'm sorry that you do. But seriously, what you think of me or my beliefs means pretty much squat when it comes to affecting my life. So, why you are allowing my mere opinion to be such a problem for you is beyond me.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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