Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@BillRM,

Quote:

One may well ask: "How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?" The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all."

MLK Letter from a Birmingham Jail

I have to this point advocated following sex law till such time as it is made more just and more in conformity with the nature of humans, however I certainly do not feel obligated to do so. The more the law becomes radicalized and the longer we go without reforming it the less likely it is that I will follow it. This business about removing consent rights and obligation for personal preservation from those who get driven out of their right mind by liquor that they themselves have willingly ingested is the first part of sex law that I am dis-inclined to follow, as I do not recognize the governments claim that it has the right to withdraw individual consent given by the drunk. The government is also out of its lane when it insists that the collective has a legal responsibility to protect individuals who refuse to take even minimal good sense measures to protect themselves. We can not save everybody, we can not protect people form the consequences of their bad choices, and it is wrong to try to do so.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Thanx for proving my point. You don't give a spit about the law. Criminals don't care about the law either because it prevents or deters them from doing what they want to do.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

You don't give a spit about the law

on the contrary, there are in this thread several hundred posts with me arguing that the law needs to be made better.....I would not invest the time if I did not care.....

Ditto for the collectives attempts to regulate the sexual functioning of individuals...I have argued that we dont do this very well, and that I have an idea of how we might do it better.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

You haven't suggested a thing that would make the laws better except in your own mind. Your whole focus has been on those poor rapists that anyone would even dare think to make them responsible for what they do. You have shown noting but total disregard to the illegal acts that have been spoken about on this thread and even condoned some. You have conssitently tried to justify the acts away even to the point of accusing a judge of misconduct.

I am not going to start nor give you the opportunity to start a trainwreck again. I've said what I've had to say.

If you really are so concerned about the laws, get out there and lobby to have them changed.

2 Replies

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

You haven't suggested a thing that would make the laws better except in your own mind

That would be in my own opinion....unlike you and Firefly I have the decency to grant others the right to their opinions, as well as the right to speak those opinions. It is hilarious watching slimy people who repeatedly resort to labeling those who speak opposing views "trolls", "rapists" ,"undetected rapists" and other such nonsense trying to pull off moral righteousness. You are a bully right out of the Bible Thumper tradition, which does not impress me. I am tired of know it alls telling me how to live my life, trying to decide for me what is right and wrong, and then calling me names if I should have the temerity to voice disagreement with them. Until and unless you are willing to work with other people and are willing to grant others the dignity of being your equal you are not capable of contributing to the collective. Those who place themselves above and are willing to apply oppression to further their will are enemy's of us all, and are rightly ignored until and unless they learn their proper place.

0 Replies

@Arella Mae,

As a Christian AM you seem yet to have no problem at all in misstating my positions and as far as I can tell Hawkeye positions on the subject.

Neither one of us have a problem with punishing real rapists our problem is how the crime is starting to be redefine.

That non-force consensus sex can somehow after the fact be turn into rape charge because the female partner of a man had willing placed herself under the influence of either drugs or alcohol before the sex act and then have some regrets after the fact.

Such a man with the poor luck to have such a female partner is not a rapist in any sense of the word in my opinion and from my understanding Hawkeye opinion.

To charge such a man with rape let alone convict him of rape is just as serious an evil deed as a rape would happen to be.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

Neither one of us have a problem with punishing real rapists

I am not clear that you and I agree what rape should be....I think it is force over registered non-consent or having sex with someone who is unable to voice will. I also believe that relationship implies a certain level of consent, I do not agree with the rape feminists that each sex act starts from a zero level of consent. For instance, If I wake my wife up with dick I have not raped her, as she is my wife and she has over 26 years indicated many times that she likes it. According to the rape feminists because she was asleep and never consented to THIS sex act I have raped her.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

I am not clear that you and I agree what rape should be....I think it is force over registered non-consent or having sex with someone who is unable to voice will. I also believe that relationship implies a certain level of consent, I do not agree with the rape feminists that each sex act starts from a zero level of consent. For instance, If I wake my wife up with dick I have not raped her, as she is my wife and she has over 26 years indicated many times that she likes it. According to the rape feminists because she was asleep and never consented to THIS sex act I have raped her.

Agree hundred percents just as if my wife is under the influence to the point where there might be some question of her ability to grant consent to sex even under the more sane standards of the older rape laws, if she was a stranger or even a new sexual partner to me, however our long term and ongoing relationship more then implies/grant consent without question.

Footnote waking my wife up for any reason other then the house in on fire I do not have her permission to do. She is never in a happy mood being woke up in any manner known to mankind sexual or otherwise.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Agree hundred percents just as if my wife is under the influence to the point where there might be some question of her ability to grant consent to sex even under the more sane standards of the older rape laws, if she was a stranger or even a new sexual partner to me, however our long term and ongoing relationship more then implies/grant consent without question.

I really don't think that most people understand what the rape feminists are driving for when they claim that there must be active consent FOR EACH STAGE OF THE SEX ACT and that relationship and history mean nothing when it comes to consent because the meter is set at zero before each act. The level of consent demanded is oppressive in the extreme.... I cant think of another reasonable explanation for this position besides what I conclude is the rape feminists aversion to sex as well as a desire to discourage the practice of it (or is it as some claim that they only want to discourage sex with men??). And there is this dark militaristic authoritarian angle with Firefly that makes it so that when ever I listen to her I think of "The Handmaiden's Tale" with all of its regimentation and restrictions on human sexuality.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

Quote:

As a Christian AM you seem yet to have no problem at all in misstating my positions and as far as I can tell Hawkeye positions on the subject.

Neither one of us have a problem with punishing real rapists our problem is how the crime is starting to be redefine

How are Arella Mae's religious beliefs at all relevant to this discussion? Have you run out of your usual insults, forcing you to now attack people for their religious beliefs?

Arella Mae has not distorted your position, or Hawkeye's. She reads you both loud and clear.

You don't decide who is a "real rapist"--the laws define the crime of rape and courts decide who is legally a rapist.

A man who chooses to have sexual contact with a woman who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol doesn't have "poor luck" if he winds up being charged with rape--he may well have violated the rape laws of his state--by his own choice.

You fail to realize that someone under the influence may not be fully conscious or aware of what she is doing at the time, and, when she sobers up, she may very legitimately feel that she was sexually assaulted, that she was raped. This is not regret after consensual sex--it means fully aware, fully knowing, legal consent had never been given in the first place. That is rape.

If men want to protect themselves from violating the rape laws--and violating their partners--then they should refrain from sexual contact with extremely intoxicated females. It's very simple. A rape charge in such circumstances isn't a matter of "poor luck" on the man's part, it's a matter of his lack of self control.

Quote:

Footnote waking my wife up for any reason other then the house in on fire I do not have her permission to do

Then you certainly do understand the meaning of "consent", don't you? It means "permission". And, just as you know how to avoid your wife's wraith, you know how to avoid a rape charge--both involve restraining your own behavior based on knowing the possible negative consequence of your actions.

3 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye Firefly is an interesting study of all the tactics that the far feminist movement employs.

First overstating the danger/chance of any one woman finding herself sexually attack in a lifetime by a thousands times or so.

Is it not also amazing that most people do not engage their brains when feed such over the top numbers?

Hawkeye you would never in any case guess that reported rapes are at a thirty years low if you listen only to Firefly on this thread.

Her posting detailing of one sexual assault after another is in order to give the impression that an American woman is as unsafe from rape as a German woman living in the city of Berlin when the Russian army overran it.

Such postings also aid in shutting down the minds and intellects of the readers and promoting personal attacks on anyone who would dare to try to bring logic to the issue. Any one questioning the Feminist “facts” or positions must be either rapists themselves or at least supporters of rapists.

AM repeated complains that neither I nor you are emoting over those stories is a case in point.

Someone could do a master paper at least on the methods Firefly had used on this thread to promote more and more insane sex laws.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

And, just as you know how to avoid your wife's wraith, you know how to avoid a rape charge--both involve restraining your own behavior based on knowing the possible negative consequence of your actions

In other word keep your woman happy and she is unlikely to have you thrown into prison for raping her.

But she should have the ability to do so at her whim at any time and for any reason.

If Hawkeye wife decided that she is tired of him and instead of just divorcing him the next time he happen to awake her with a sex act off to prison he should go for rape.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Why shouldn't there be active consent for "each stage of the sex act"?

Because someone is willing to kiss doesn't mean she wants to be involved in heavy petting. Because someone is willing to engage in foreplay does not mean she wants to have intercourse. Because she wants to have vaginal intercourse does not mean she wants to engage in oral or anal sex. Each sexual contact requires consent--agreement.

Quote:

The level of consent demanded is oppressive in the extreme.

That may be true for you. Most normal people pay attention to their partners, and to what the partner does and does not want. This is rather natural--for those of us who are actually interacting and communicating with our partners, and care about them. Since you apparently focus only on your own needs/desires/wants, having to pay attention to your partner might, indeed, be "oppressive" for you.

Requiring consent in no way places undue "restrictions on human sexuality"--it simply means there must be mutual agreement between the partners about the behaviors to be engaged in. It protects both partners from intentionally, or even unintentionally, assaulting or hurting each other. Most normal people do not want to harm their partner, they want their sexual encounters to be consenting.

Even if you pay a prostitute, you both agree beforehand on the behaviors to be engaged in. And I would think that, in the BDSM scene, you reach similar agreements as well, if the situation is fully consenting.

All your whinning about "consent" simply reflects your own selfishness and your own need for control. Most of us already take our partner's desires into account. We want them to be happy and satisfied, and we don't need the laws to even remind us that consent is necessary--we are already aware that our sexual partner is a person with feelings of their own that we respect.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Why shouldn't there be active consent for "each stage of the sex act"?

Because in intimate relationship we constantly do things that we dont particularly want to do, because if we dont the relationship does not work. Plus, it is way too much yippity yap to get consent for each stage of the lovemaking, and because talking about it and removing the element of surprise takes a lot of the joy out of it.

It is supposed to be all about pleasure, believe it or not, and all of your rules and regulations do not serve the purpose of sex.

Quote:

Most normal people do not want to harm their partner, they want their sexual encounters to be consenting.

Most normal people dont consider conducting sex on a level of consent lower than active consent for each stage "harming their partner", if fact your rules harm all involved and this your rules should properly be ignored.

We can add active consent for each stage of the love making to the "rules" that I refuse to follow, if that means that you need to have me arrested then go ahead and do what you have to do..

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

In other word keep your woman happy and she is unlikely to have you thrown into prison for raping her.

But she should have the ability to do so at her whim at any time and for any reason.

Sure, any woman can just have a man thrown into prison "at a whim"? That really jives with all the statistics that show that rape is an extremely difficult charge to successfully prosecute--which is the reason that most rapists are never charged and rape is a crime which can be committed with relative impunity.

You are simply a jerk who enjoys shooting his mouth off. It's unfortunate you lack the intellectual substance to lend your opinions any credibility.

In another thread, you are arguing against allowing some American Muslims to build a community center/mosque in lower Manhattan because you apparently think all mosques represent a significant terrorist threat. Do you base that illogical view on any credible reliable statistics?

And how frequent are terrorist attacks by Muslims on U.S. soil? Enough to warrant your hysteria about all mosques in Manhattan or the U.S.?

Your opinions regarding the threat posed by that community center/mosque, or even the threat posed by other mosques in NYC or the U.S., aren't based on statistics are they? Your views of a terrorist threat aren't based on their frequency of occurrence either, are they?

But, you feel free to dismiss rape statistics from the top U.S. crime agencies as being "insignificant" when it comes to whether women should be concerned about the crime of rape. You feel free to dismiss concern about rapes--even though rapes occur every day throughout this country. That's a lot more frequent than the occurrence of terrorist attacks in the U.S., isn't it? It should warrant concern and attention, shouldn't it?

Try applying some consistency to your standards, and your opinions, and how you evaluate data. Although I doubt you are able to do that. As I said, you are rather devoid of intellectual substance. You make even Hawkeye look like a Rhodes scholar. Laughing

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

And, just as you know how to avoid your wife's wraith, you know how to avoid a rape charge--both involve restraining your own behavior based on knowing the possible negative consequence of your actions.

We have other options as well, we can argue that the government is oppressive and that these laws should not be complied with, we can impose negative consequences upon those who do comply with these laws by filing flimsy rape charges against men, we can lobby to have these laws changed, and we can use the power of the vote to punish those public servants that fall in league with rape feminists.

People will do what they think is right, which is as it should be.

Edit: As I said much earlier in the thread, one thing that I do and encourage all to do is to only interact sexually with those who take a dim view of government regulation of our sexuality. Hopefully the laws of supply and demand will work (or should we call it peer pressure?) to tamp down on cooperation with the governments attempts to control our sexuality.

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Sure, any woman can just have a man thrown into prison "at a whim"? That really jives with all the statistics that show that rape is an extremely difficult charge to successfully prosecute

That what you are driving for and just being charge with this crime had ruin more then one man life and there is little to no punishment for bringing false charges also.

So all all it is a free shot for any women to level such charges again at man at her whim. as it now stand.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

So all all it is a free shot for any women to level such charges again at man at her whim. as it now stand.

THere is that, but the more major problem is that Firefly and those who think like her dont understand (or more likely pretend to not understand) how intimate relationships function. If we yacked everything out and come to a mutual decision about each thing we did together just about nothing would ever get done. The way relationship works is that there is a leader and a follower. Most people I know one party leads in certain areas most of the time and the other in the others, with communication and consultation but without mutual decision making. My wife and I have sex 4-5 times a week, and we are supposed to mutually decide what happens the whole time each and every time?? No way that works. One person takes the lead and keeps going so long as the other does not object. I feel very sorry for those people who hobble their sex lives by trying to follow the rules that the rape feminists publish. Hopefully with experience they learn that the bullshit should be banished from their bedrooms, and hopefully they dont suffer from guilt once they do it.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Discussing your marital sex life adds nothing to this discussion. Do you think anyone really cares what arrangements you and your wife have?

And, when an over-the-hill married man seeks partners outside of marriage, as apparently you do, you open yourself up to all sorts of things--again by your own choice--and, again, not of particular interest to anyone here.

We are not discussing "sexual relations" or "lovemaking" in this thread--we are discussing RAPE--a distinction you have failed to make throughout this thread. The current rape laws define SEXUAL ASSAULTS. They are meant to define, deter and punish SEXUAL ASSAULTS.

If RAPE and SEXUAL ASSAULTS are part of what you consider your normal, and required, "lovemaking" you indeed have substantial problems, and the laws will not change to accommodate your particular psychopathology.

Quote:

We can add active consent for each stage of the love making to the "rules" that I refuse to follow, if that means that you need to have me arrested then go ahead and do what you have to do..

Fine. If you deliberately chose to violate criminal laws, you deserve whatever punishment you might get--like any other common criminal.

2 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Discussing your marital sex life adds nothing to this discussion. Do you think anyone really cares what arrangements you and your wife have?

And, when an over-the-hill married man seeks partners outside of marriage, as apparently you do, you open yourself up to all sorts of things--again by your own choice--and, again, not of particular interest to anyone here.

We are not discussing "sexual relations" or "lovemaking" in this thread--we are discussing RAPE--a distinction you have failed to make throughout this thread. The current rape laws define SEXUAL ASSAULTS. They are meant to define, deter and punish SEXUAL ASSAULTS.

Nonsense you had not been talking about real rape that none of us here had any problem with you are instead been talking about playing games with the concept of consent and when a woman clear consent can be declare invalid after the fact at her whim.

0 Replies

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know